(02-26-2013 12:38 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  You're taking it too far here, Redman.

[quote='NJRedMan' pid='9012876' dateline='1361898385']

I disagree with you. A game with a ranked GTown vs a ranked Butler will scream Big East.

Agreed.

Quote: A game between Temple and Memphis does not.

It doesn't scream Big East, but it wouldn't have been out of place at all.

[quote]Villanova/Xavier screams Big East.

Agreed.

Quote: St. John's/St. Louis screams Big East.

No. Saint Louis hasn't done anything, doesn't have any kind of national profile. St John's-SLU is a halfway Big East game until Saint Louis does something notable, or until some time passes with SLU playing us.

Quote:Marquette/Creighton screams Big East.

Yes. And even Saint Louis-Dayton is way more Big East than SMU-ECU.
[/quote]

Again, you've missed my entire point. It isn't about which conference screams Big East more. It's that neither scream Big East at all. Period. Of course, the period is just stamping home my opinion.

(02-26-2013 12:24 PM)Bones N Skulls Wrote:  You confuse sarcasm and truth. C7 fans and in some regards the schools themselves have an elitist attitude. Please go back and scan the posts of the sideways comments about the value of the contract relating to the value of the incoming teams. You see no sarcasm or hostility?

I can't say you're wrong. We've been hearing for a rather long time a pretty steady drumbeat of "Sit down and shut up, your school doesn't even play football! Football drives the bus! Your programs are leeching off of our valuable football!" and more recently "How can their (worthless) basketball be worth more than our football AND basketball?" After all that, with a lucrative TV contract waiting, we're feeling our oats.

Part of the problem is that the fanbases that were talking all that smack to us are now in FBS power-conferences, replaced by you guys. You guys are like children in the process of adoption when the parents get divorced. We didn't want you, Louisville and Rutgers and UConn needed you.

Quote:I find that insulting from my end. The schools themselves broke off to protect their RPI when the C7s own RPI is not any different from incoming schools save for the top two.

Not just RPI--RPI, tradition, focus of the conference, control of our destiny, and market value. With Syracuse and Louisville gone, putting up with a football-focused conference in constant danger of more realignment simply wasn't worth it. We didn't want you guys in the first place, except for Memphis. We took you in for the sake of Louisville and UConn and Cincinnati (and USF and Rutgers, who we took in for the sake of Syracuse and Pitt.)

Quote:I will call a spade a spade when I see it. I also tend to think my conversation has been intelligent and reasonable. Because my views differ from yours does not indicate a lack intelligence or merit.

No lack of intelligence or merit, just coming from a different position with different interests and priorities.

Big East Football teams could go with a name like NAS-C = North American Sports Conference. With this name they could invite a team from anywhere in the USA without a name change. They could have as many teams or as few teams as they want without it affecting their name. They could place their offices in any city they want to place them. And they get away from a conference name that as far as a football name is considered, has mixed results.

(02-26-2013 12:40 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 12:06 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 11:45 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 11:39 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 11:19 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  If you want to live in that bubble, go right ahead. But, IMO, most of the world associated the Big East with certain names...not all of them...and those names together in one collection. With the overwhelming majority of those "name" teams broken away from each other (either ACC, C7 or football side), neither the ACC group, the C7 group nor the football schools scream Big East. It doesn't matter what "knowledgeable" fans think. The bulk of whom the sports world caters to is the casual fan. To them, the Big East (as they knew it) no longer exists.

Talking about living in a bubble. Geez

People think BBall when they think Big East, turning on a Big East game and seeing 2 ranked teams they actually heard of playing will feel right to them.

Being ranked doesn't in any way equate to when fans will say..."see now, that's the Big East!" If taken the way you inferred, fans would still see Syracuse and Pitt as a Big East game. Same with Cincy and UCONN. IMO, it just doesn't work that way. Fans may feel weird at first with those teams playing in other conferences but I highly doubt they see any one of the three conferences as a true representation of the Big East.

I disagree with you. A game with a ranked GTown vs a ranked Butler will scream Big East. A game between Temple and Memphis does not. Villanova/Xavier screams Big East. St. John's/St. Louis screams Big East. Marquette/Creighton screams Big East.

Well, since they are only opinions. We can agree disagree. You are actually trying to force a comparison between the two conferences. That isn't my point. The C7 + additions are seen as "screaming Big East" period. That was my point/opinion. There may be a few games here or that that do...but not as a whole. It isn't about comparing the C7 to the football schools.

Breaking it down individually doesn't do much good as I'm referring to the conference as a whole. But even an individual break down doesn't really cement home "this is the Big East!" Pair former members against each other...doesn't matter. IMO, people still don't see it the same way they used to.

Quote:A game with a ranked GTown vs a ranked Butler will scream Big East. A game between Temple and Memphis does not.

Yeah, if you want to pick it that way. IMO, UCONN vs. Memphis screams just as much Big East as Georgetown vs. Butler...which isn't a lot, if at all.

Quote:Villanova/Xavier screams Big East.

Not to me. Not sure how it does to anyone else.

Quote: St. John's/St. Louis screams Big East.

Not to me. Not sure how it does to anyone else.

Quote:Marquette/Creighton screams Big East.

Seriously, not to me. Not sure how it does to anyone else.

Maybe not to you but Fox, CBS and ESPN sure as hell seem to think it does.

There is precedence here: When the 7 or 8 WAC schools split-off to form the MWC they did not take the WAC name, though most that left were charter members of the WAC.

And I'm pretty sure they didn't charge the members who were left behind a fee for keeping the name. This is also relatively recent history, c. 1999.

So I really don't think the C-7 has a leg to stand on here, they decided to leave and form a new hoops conference. Next project, think of a name for it.

(02-25-2013 02:56 PM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  I hate that certain fans of schools who haven't played a down of Big East football think they deserve the name over schools who have been playing in the Big East since 1979.

After the way the Big East treated Tulane and ECU, I think losing your conference name is well-deserved payback. You behaved as if the universe was centered around NYC and Boston for years. People bought into this smug pretentiousness for a while, and when the money dried up, they stopped. Now you're screwed. Your future is as messed up as John Marinatto's tie after a nasty Italian dinner. Enjoy your irrelevance... I'm sure you're all still heroes to each other!

(02-26-2013 01:14 PM)FIUFan Wrote:  There is precedence here: When the 7 or 8 WAC schools split-off to form the MWC they did not take the WAC name, though most that left were charter members of the WAC.

And I'm pretty sure they didn't charge the members who were left behind a fee for keeping the name. This is also relatively recent history, c. 1999.

So I really don't think the C-7 has a leg to stand on here, they decided to leave and form a new hoops conference. Next project, think of a name for it.

C-East

The Conference for Elitist Asses and Sophisticated Twats.

(02-26-2013 12:56 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  Big East Football teams could go with a name like NAS-C = North American Sports Conference. With this name they could invite a team from anywhere in the USA without a name change. They could have as many teams or as few teams as they want without it affecting their name. They could place their offices in any city they want to place them. And they get away from a conference name that as far as a football name is considered, has mixed results.

That sounds just as cheesy and bad as ever other attempted name I've heard. I haven't heard a single name mentioned by anyone that felt like a good name.

(02-26-2013 12:06 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  A game with a ranked GTown vs a ranked Butler will scream Big East.

No. That game screams Big Monday...

(02-26-2013 01:14 PM)FIUFan Wrote:  There is precedence here: When the 7 or 8 WAC schools split-off to form the MWC they did not take the WAC name, though most that left were charter members of the WAC.

And I'm pretty sure they didn't charge the members who were left behind a fee for keeping the name. This is also relatively recent history, c. 1999.

So I really don't think the C-7 has a leg to stand on here, they decided to leave and form a new hoops conference. Next project, think of a name for it.

The didn't have a pre-nup outlining plans for a split. The C-7 are not leaving the conference in the same way that the MWC teams left the WAC or most of C-USA left to come to the Big East. It's a different situation. We're splitting the assets of the conference--that's in the pre-nup. Every other case, the departing schools left the assets in the old conference.

Without the pre-nup, we might not have invited anybody and let the football schools go form a new conference from scratch.

(02-26-2013 01:03 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 12:40 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 12:06 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 11:45 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 11:39 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Talking about living in a bubble. Geez

People think BBall when they think Big East, turning on a Big East game and seeing 2 ranked teams they actually heard of playing will feel right to them.

Being ranked doesn't in any way equate to when fans will say..."see now, that's the Big East!" If taken the way you inferred, fans would still see Syracuse and Pitt as a Big East game. Same with Cincy and UCONN. IMO, it just doesn't work that way. Fans may feel weird at first with those teams playing in other conferences but I highly doubt they see any one of the three conferences as a true representation of the Big East.

I disagree with you. A game with a ranked GTown vs a ranked Butler will scream Big East. A game between Temple and Memphis does not. Villanova/Xavier screams Big East. St. John's/St. Louis screams Big East. Marquette/Creighton screams Big East.

Well, since they are only opinions. We can agree disagree. You are actually trying to force a comparison between the two conferences. That isn't my point. The C7 + additions are seen as "screaming Big East" period. That was my point/opinion. There may be a few games here or that that do...but not as a whole. It isn't about comparing the C7 to the football schools.

Breaking it down individually doesn't do much good as I'm referring to the conference as a whole. But even an individual break down doesn't really cement home "this is the Big East!" Pair former members against each other...doesn't matter. IMO, people still don't see it the same way they used to.

Quote:A game with a ranked GTown vs a ranked Butler will scream Big East. A game between Temple and Memphis does not.

Yeah, if you want to pick it that way. IMO, UCONN vs. Memphis screams just as much Big East as Georgetown vs. Butler...which isn't a lot, if at all.

Quote:Villanova/Xavier screams Big East.

Not to me. Not sure how it does to anyone else.

Quote: St. John's/St. Louis screams Big East.

Not to me. Not sure how it does to anyone else.

Quote:Marquette/Creighton screams Big East.

Seriously, not to me. Not sure how it does to anyone else.

Maybe not to you but Fox, CBS and ESPN sure as hell seem to think it does.

Are you saying because they're willing to pay more for that basketball collection it implies they think of them as the "Big East?" If so, I disagree whole heartedly. They think value is there and have assigned their $$$ worth to that. That is regardless of who has what name. It doesn't imply anything about those teams "screaming Big East." I'm sure they could market them better with the name but the two are not tied together IMO.

SMH at these three C7 fans that think they are on some kind of crusade. It's over and the Big East just signed a TV deal with ESPN make a new name and move on.

If the C7 is half as good in basketball as it claims to be then starting a new conference will be a non issue.

(02-26-2013 01:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  The didn't have a pre-nup outlining plans for a split. The C-7 are not leaving the conference in the same way that the MWC teams left the WAC or most of C-USA left to come to the Big East. It's a different situation. We're splitting the assets of the conference--that's in the pre-nup. Every other case, the departing schools left the assets in the old conference.
Without the pre-nup, we might not have invited anybody and let the football schools go form a new conference from scratch.

I'd love to read that pre-nup. Where can it be located? Thanks.

You asked this same question a couple months back (with no answer in the string) so you must have found the proof. http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=606770

(02-26-2013 01:48 PM)FIUFan Wrote:  I'd love to read that pre-nup. Where can it be located? Thanks.

Like most contracts, it's not public at this point.

Media sources on the pre-nup:

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/coll..._East.html

"This end was anticipated for years. In November 2003, in adding schools to replace Miami, Virginia Tech, and Boston College, the conference worked on language to be used in case football and non-football schools could not coexist. A pre-nup of sorts."

"The sub-agreement apparently called for the conference "to equitably distribute the [financial] assets," the source with knowledge of the sub-agreement said. Any distribution of assets is crucial, involving millions in NCAA basketball tournament revenue and exit fees from schools that already left."

http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Olive/O...w=ZW50aXR5
Providence Journal

"This one has become clear. Citing a “departure document” drawn up in 2005 by the Big East staff, the basketball group is able to “act in concert” and withdraw from the Big East without paying a withdrawal fee. The football schools and Notre Dame own the same flexibility. The catch is that the group is obligated to remain together for 27 months, although that can be negotiated down. The withdrawal means the schools left behind — Cincinnati, Connecticut, South Florida and a host of incoming members — become the Big East. Getting that name back from the football side will be negotiated."

Over on the C-7 board I have a sticky thread with an archive of these articles.

Thanks. So it clearly states that the "incoming members - become the Big East'.

I guess that's the end of that.

Just call it the Eleventy Bullion Conference and call it day, hang a few banners at the corner of Bourbon Street and St Peter, get the crew over the Cats Meow to sing "I did it my way" and be done.

(02-26-2013 02:07 PM)FIUFan Wrote:  Thanks. So it clearly states that the "incoming members - become the Big East'.

I guess that's the end of that.

Hey guys, this random FIU poster just solved the whole thing. Lets shut it down and go home fellas!!!! Thank god he stumbled by and let us know what it said. Goodnight folks.

Kinda funny to see a Troy fan and C7 fans arguing about what the Big East football schools should do.

(02-26-2013 02:07 PM)FIUFan Wrote:  Thanks. So it clearly states that the "incoming members - become the Big East'.

I guess that's the end of that.

They don't get that regardless of what they call it they are LEAVING. You can't leave your house, give it to someone else, then take the house with you and say tough luck. A few media outlets picked up the story for clicks a while ago but aside from message board chatter this top is DEAD.

UCF, Tulane, ECU, USF, Cincy, Temple, UConn, Memphis, UCF, Houston, SMU, and Navy are the Big East conference now. What it was is dead and what they do to improve it will be what it is.

(02-26-2013 03:46 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 02:07 PM)FIUFan Wrote:  Thanks. So it clearly states that the "incoming members - become the Big East'.

I guess that's the end of that.

They don't get that regardless of what they call it they are LEAVING. You can't leave your house, give it to someone else, then take the house with you and say tough luck. A few media outlets picked up the story for clicks a while ago but aside from message board chatter this top is DEAD.

UCF, Tulane, ECU, USF, Cincy, Temple, UConn, Memphis, UCF, Houston, SMU, and Navy are the Big East conference now. What it was is dead and what they do to improve it will be what it is.

No. . .

They are not leaving, they are splitting as specified in the pre-nup. It's different. What was one conference now becomes two, which stand on equal footing with assets to be divide equally including the name, the rights to which are to be negotiated.

It's a simple concept.