Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
Author Message
Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,161
Joined: May 2010
Reputation: 449
I Root For: Common Sense
Location: Nunnayadamnbusiness
Post: #41
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
No, you're right; I was just making a wish list.

I'm more than fine with how that division looks otherwise. Everyone was everyone else's bitter rival in the old Patrick Division and this set up is basically a return to that plus Columbus and Carolina. That's going to make for some bitter, bitter rivalries and bitter rivalries makes for excellent hockey, IMHO.
02-25-2013 06:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Chappy Offline
Resident Goonie
*

Posts: 18,901
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation: 899
I Root For: ECU
Location: Raleigh, NC
Post: #42
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
Here's a fairly recent piece on NHL expansion, citing Toronto and Quebec City as expansion targets.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-d...--nhl.html
02-25-2013 07:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Ragu Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,841
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 608
I Root For: FAU/FSU
Location:
Post: #43
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
(02-25-2013 06:36 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  No, you're right; I was just making a wish list.

I'm more than fine with how that division looks otherwise. Everyone was everyone else's bitter rival in the old Patrick Division and this set up is basically a return to that plus Columbus and Carolina. That's going to make for some bitter, bitter rivalries and bitter rivalries makes for excellent hockey, IMHO.

My wish list would be booting one of the Florida teams for Chicago while we are at it 02-13-banana

I live near Cleveland and wish we had a team. Columbus is the next best thing. I grew up rooting for Toronto because I had to pick a team and Ohio didnt have one. Cbus is kind of my 2nd team. I am happy they get Pittsburgh now and that Toronto gets Detroit. Those are 2 very logical divisional rivalries.

Also just in case anyone didn't hear:

The first 2 rounds of the playoffs will probably still be within your division. They were talking about that in the last proposal. My friend said they still want to to do that with this one. I am all for it. Would love a divisional type playoff with rivalries in the first couple of rounds.
02-25-2013 07:19 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Wedge Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 19,862
Joined: May 2010
Reputation: 964
I Root For: California
Location: IV, V, VI, IX
Post: #44
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
(02-25-2013 07:03 PM)Chappy Wrote:  Here's a fairly recent piece on NHL expansion, citing Toronto and Quebec City as expansion targets.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-d...--nhl.html

Interesting, though if it's expansion money the owners are after (and OF COURSE it's money they're after), then after southern Ontario, the next most lucrative expansion option is Seattle -- unless the league has already earmarked Seattle as the eventual destination of the Coyotes. Seattle has a very large population base and TV market and potential owners who could afford the ginormous expansion fee that the NHL owners want.
02-25-2013 08:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
PirateTreasureNC Offline
G's up, Ho's Down ; )
*

Posts: 36,273
Joined: May 2004
Reputation: 617
I Root For: ECU Pirates,
Location:
Post: #45
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
(02-25-2013 07:03 PM)Chappy Wrote:  Here's a fairly recent piece on NHL expansion, citing Toronto and Quebec City as expansion targets.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-d...--nhl.html
(02-24-2013 10:13 PM)Chappy Wrote:  
(02-24-2013 06:25 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  
(02-24-2013 04:56 PM)Chappy Wrote:  
(02-24-2013 04:15 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  
(02-24-2013 03:32 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  This alignment bolsters the hopes of Kansas City and Seattle in landing expansion teams. Any expansion in the "eastern side" will just simply put Eastern Time Zone teams in one of the "western side conferences"

How serious is expansion? I just cant see them doing it.

Look for it to hit the front burner once the Phoenix situation is settled.

There is enough movement/demand to really need two more teams? Pheonix went kaput, Thrashers baknrupted out to Winnipeg ( who lost a team)... I can't see the NHL doing this unless the really want to make 4 8 team divisions.

No, but nhl owners are greedy bastards who would never turn down franchise fees.


I have heard of the 2nd Toronto team being buzzed about.

I have heard Quebec was wanting wanting a team as early as Atlanta moving.

But after the league just came out of a pretty nasty labor dispute... their tv deal could arguably use a boost.

I do think 32 teams with 4 8 team divisions makes sense. I am not sure how much "dilution of talent" there would be like arguments have been made for NBA in recent years but I wonder how badly they really need to add teams.

**************

Would a 2nd Toronto team be able to get a fan base going considering the Original 6 Maple Leafs across town?
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2013 08:23 PM by PirateTreasureNC.)
02-25-2013 08:22 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
General Mike Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,959
Joined: Aug 2009
Reputation: 64
I Root For: Rutgers
Location:
Post: #46
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
(02-25-2013 08:22 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  
(02-25-2013 07:03 PM)Chappy Wrote:  Here's a fairly recent piece on NHL expansion, citing Toronto and Quebec City as expansion targets.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-d...--nhl.html
(02-24-2013 10:13 PM)Chappy Wrote:  
(02-24-2013 06:25 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  
(02-24-2013 04:56 PM)Chappy Wrote:  
(02-24-2013 04:15 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  How serious is expansion? I just cant see them doing it.

Look for it to hit the front burner once the Phoenix situation is settled.

There is enough movement/demand to really need two more teams? Pheonix went kaput, Thrashers baknrupted out to Winnipeg ( who lost a team)... I can't see the NHL doing this unless the really want to make 4 8 team divisions.

No, but nhl owners are greedy bastards who would never turn down franchise fees.


I have heard of the 2nd Toronto team being buzzed about.

I have heard Quebec was wanting wanting a team as early as Atlanta moving.

But after the league just came out of a pretty nasty labor dispute... their tv deal could arguably use a boost.

I do think 32 teams with 4 8 team divisions makes sense. I am not sure how much "dilution of talent" there would be like arguments have been made for NBA in recent years but I wonder how badly they really need to add teams.

**************

Would a 2nd Toronto team be able to get a fan base going considering the Original 6 Maple Leafs across town?

I think the delution of talent angle from adding 2 teams is overrated. I think if you are going to expand, you have to choose the 2 markets that have shown a history of supporting hockey, whether it's minor league or junior level.
02-25-2013 09:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,161
Joined: May 2010
Reputation: 449
I Root For: Common Sense
Location: Nunnayadamnbusiness
Post: #47
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
There's no question that adding two more teams would deplete the talent pool. You would especially see that on defense where teams would get REALLY thin on the back end (think pitching staffs in baseball when MLB expanded). That is THE drawback to expansion - yet more thinning of an already thinned to the bone talent pool.

As for the expansion teams, prior to seeing the model shown at the beginning of this thread, I definitely would have agreed that Quebec and Markham/GTA were the runaway choices as teams No. 31 and 32. Now, I'm not as sure.

What do you do, tell those teams that they're going to be playing in the Western Conference? Or do you tell Columbus and Detroit, "You know what, remember that whole you're going to the Eastern Conference thing where almost none of your games will ever start later than 7:30 p.m. EST? Yeah, um, never mind."

I think there are more twists to come.
02-25-2013 09:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
PirateTreasureNC Offline
G's up, Ho's Down ; )
*

Posts: 36,273
Joined: May 2004
Reputation: 617
I Root For: ECU Pirates,
Location:
Post: #48
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
How good is the financial backing of the NHL and some of the other franchises to add two more teams though?

I could see adding more western teams to balance out divisions. I guess it would depend on the financial backbone/support in those cities to make it work.
02-25-2013 09:23 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Chappy Offline
Resident Goonie
*

Posts: 18,901
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation: 899
I Root For: ECU
Location: Raleigh, NC
Post: #49
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
(02-25-2013 09:03 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  There's no question that adding two more teams would deplete the talent pool. You would especially see that on defense where teams would get REALLY thin on the back end (think pitching staffs in baseball when MLB expanded). That is THE drawback to expansion - yet more thinning of an already thinned to the bone talent pool.

As for the expansion teams, prior to seeing the model shown at the beginning of this thread, I definitely would have agreed that Quebec and Markham/GTA were the runaway choices as teams No. 31 and 32. Now, I'm not as sure.

What do you do, tell those teams that they're going to be playing in the Western Conference? Or do you tell Columbus and Detroit, "You know what, remember that whole you're going to the Eastern Conference thing where almost none of your games will ever start later than 7:30 p.m. EST? Yeah, um, never mind."

I think there are more twists to come.

Based purely on the graphics, Kansas City and Seattle would be my expansion guesses.
02-25-2013 09:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
General Mike Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,959
Joined: Aug 2009
Reputation: 64
I Root For: Rutgers
Location:
Post: #50
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
The problem with any realignment is there are so few cities in the west that can support another pro team. Realistically, the best case scenario probably puts the following 8 in a Western Conference (Kings, Ducks, Sharks, Coyotes, Canucks, Flames, Oilers, Avs), then have 3 conferences with the teams from the Eastern and Central Time Zones. Detroit still isn't going to be happy, but if they are playing only 8 games in Mountain and Central Time, its not so bad.
02-25-2013 09:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
PirateTreasureNC Offline
G's up, Ho's Down ; )
*

Posts: 36,273
Joined: May 2004
Reputation: 617
I Root For: ECU Pirates,
Location:
Post: #51
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
Has KC or Seattle ever had a NHL team?

Quebec had the Nordiques.

As far as I know, Toronto has only had the Leafs.

I want to say I have heard rumblings about a team in Hamilton.... and I believe they had a team A LONG TIME AGO.
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2013 09:51 PM by PirateTreasureNC.)
02-25-2013 09:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
NoDak Offline
Jersey Retired
Jersey Retired

Posts: 6,958
Joined: Oct 2005
Reputation: 105
I Root For: UND
Location:
Post: #52
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
(02-25-2013 09:51 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  Has KC or Seattle ever had a NHL team?

Quebec had the Nordiques.

As far as I know, Toronto has only had the Leafs.

I want to say I have heard rumblings about a team in Hamilton.... and I believe they had a team A LONG TIME AGO.

Kansas City had the Scouts back in the 70's.

The Scout moved to Denver and became the Colo Rockies ?

The Rockies moved to NJ and became the Devils.


As far as Toronto teams:


[Image: NHL_Timeline_%281917-1942%29.PNG]
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...942%29.PNG
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2013 10:24 PM by NoDak.)
02-25-2013 10:17 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Journeyman22 Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 343
Joined: Dec 2011
Reputation: 6
I Root For: South Alabama
Location:
Post: #53
Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
(02-25-2013 09:51 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  Has KC or Seattle ever had a NHL team?

Seattle Metropolitans won the Stanley Cup in 1917. While not an NHL team, they beat an NHL team to win. Also made finals in 1918, but the influenza epididymis was so bad that the series was canceled.
02-25-2013 11:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
chargeradio Offline
Vamos Morados
*

Posts: 7,492
Joined: Mar 2007
Reputation: 128
I Root For: ALA, KY, USA
Location: Louisville, KY
Post: #54
Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
The Seattle Metropolitans (NHA) won the Stanley Cup in 1917.
02-25-2013 11:07 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
MissouriStateBears Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,625
Joined: Jul 2005
Reputation: 88
I Root For: Missouri State
Location:
Post: #55
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
Kansas City has the arena thats for sure. Sprint Center is amazing. Support would be there. It would have to be a regional franchise but that's nothing new for our part of the world. The lease deal for a team is pretty darn good. Penguins were very close to moving there. AEG runs the arena and offered 50% management deal along with free rent. AEG basically rules the concert circuit so a NHL team would make bank off that and another bonus is all of the suites in Sprint Center are sold out. The trouble is no ownership group has stepped forward.

Houston would make lots of sense as well, but the trouble with Houston is in the Toyota Center lease - the Rockets have to be the ownership group of the NHL team.

Seattle gets their new arena and they are lock IMO.
02-25-2013 11:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
PirateTreasureNC Offline
G's up, Ho's Down ; )
*

Posts: 36,273
Joined: May 2004
Reputation: 617
I Root For: ECU Pirates,
Location:
Post: #56
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
(02-25-2013 11:11 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Kansas City has the arena thats for sure. Sprint Center is amazing. Support would be there. It would have to be a regional franchise but that's nothing new for our part of the world. The lease deal for a team is pretty darn good. Penguins were very close to moving there. AEG runs the arena and offered 50% management deal along with free rent. AEG basically rules the concert circuit so a NHL team would make bank off that and another bonus is all of the suites in Sprint Center are sold out. The trouble is no ownership group has stepped forward.

Houston would make lots of sense as well, but the trouble with Houston is in the Toyota Center lease - the Rockets have to be the ownership group of the NHL team.

Seattle gets their new arena and they are lock IMO.

Hockey demand conflict with Dallas Stars?
02-25-2013 11:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Ragu Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,841
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 608
I Root For: FAU/FSU
Location:
Post: #57
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
The easy solution: Add Seattle and Kansas City to the 2 Western Conference divisions. Move Florida to Canada if needed.

The complex solution:

-Move Phoenix to Seattle/shift Winnipeg to this division as well to get to 8
-Shift Columbus back with Chicago's division/add KC as expansion #1 to get to 8
-Move Florida to Quebec or Hamilton/Markum. Add expansion #2 in other Canada city to get to 8
-Shift Tampa Bay to the Pitt/NY/NJ division to get them to 8.
02-26-2013 07:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,161
Joined: May 2010
Reputation: 449
I Root For: Common Sense
Location: Nunnayadamnbusiness
Post: #58
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
Right now a loonie is worth approximately $0.97 US and it has hovered around that dead even mark for about four or five years. In fact, last year for a time, the loonie was worth more than the US dollar for the first time since the early 80s. And with the endless schwantz measuring in Washington these days on both sides of the aisle, and everyone's willingness to to play chicken with our economy instead of actually governing responsibly as they were elected to do, who knows what things will look like next year or five years from now?

From an NHL expansion standpoint, that changes the equation entirely, IMHO.

If one believes that expansion is an absolute necessity and that there is enough talent out there to sustain two more teams; and if the well compensated economists can all agree that the Canadian economy is likely to keep pace with the American economy for the foreseeable future, this whole decision is a complete no-brainer. If all of those questions are answered in the affirmative, then teams should - and will - go to Quebec City and the Greater Toronto Area. It's really not even a debatable point in my view.

If you believe that the Canadian economy can stay competitive with that of their Southern "neighbours" then there is no real incentive for the league to try and sell hockey in non-traditional American market when there are perfectly good markets in Canada with strong hockey traditions and legions of fans clamoring for the opportunity to throw money at the NHL. That is a BIG issue for a gate driven league like the NHL. Also, it is notable that Quebec City and Markham have arenas under construction or in the final planning stages so even that won't be a disadvantage relative to their American competitors.

That said, I still think that Seattle has a great chance to land a team. However it will be a relocated team like Phoenix. Seattle is an underrated hockey market. It has several Western Hockey League teams within a two hour drive of it and they all draw very well by junior standards. There is no reason to believe that a new team in Seattle wouldn't be able to win over those fans. Everyone has jumped on the Phoenix to Seattle rumors but I would caution everyone to keep a close eye trained on Florida. They too really struggle to draw fans and are bleeding red ink. I still think PHX is more likely to move but I wouldn't be remotely shocked to see them stay put and instead have FLA end up in the Pacific Northwest.

Incidentally, both of those teams are stymied by the exact same - and wildly underrated - issue. Their arenas are too far from their cities and they are not centrally located, making it difficult for fans living on the other side of the DMA to get to and from games in a reasonable amount of time. I'm told that the Tampa Bay Rays have the same issue with their field but I'm not from there so I'm not sure how true that is?

Anyway, the difference between Seattle and the Canadian teams is that Seattle's priority has always been - and will continue to be - landing an NBA team. It looks like they're on the verge of securing the Sacramento Kings. Also, Chris Hansen and his investment group are basically building Seattle's new arena with their own money and with limited government support. That is almost certainly going to mean that they will have limited resources to bid on an expansion team.

The Canadian teams have no such issues and the Quebec group, Quebecor (basically the preeminent French language media conglomerate in Canada) has a TON of money to spend and a direct motivation to land a team so as to grow their empire. As such they would be willing to cough up the hundreds of millions of dollars it is going to take to land an NHL team.

The Toronto area team is even more of a no-brainer. That market is so flush with cash that even if the Canadian dollar tanks to the level it was at the turn of the century (approximately $0.60 US), that team would probably STILL make a lot of money. A lot of Americans may not realize this but Toronto is roughly the same size as Chicago so it is MORE than big enough to comfortably support both the Leafs and another team - just as Chicago does in baseball with the White Sox and the Cubs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nor...population

Also, it is notable that the Maple Leafs are currently owned by Rogers Sportsnet and Bell Canada - two ENORMOUS media companies. I wouldn't be remotely surprised to later find out that was a short term marriage from the start and that as part of the deal for the Leafs allowing another team into its market, one of those two media companies gets squatters rights to the new Toronto franchise - which will be an absolute gold mine for whomever gets that team.

Personally, I think the NHL should cool its heels on realignment until it decides one way or the other whether it wants to expand. The worst thing they could do is realign only to realign again in another year or three. In the meantime, simply swap Nashville or preferably, Columbus with Winnipeg and voila, we're all set until a final decision is made on whether to stay at 30 teams or to expand to 32 teams.

One thing is for certain, it will be utterly fascinating to see how this all plays out.

[Image: nhl-realignment_medium.png]
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2013 11:05 AM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
02-26-2013 10:55 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Chappy Offline
Resident Goonie
*

Posts: 18,901
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation: 899
I Root For: ECU
Location: Raleigh, NC
Post: #59
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
The problem, good Dr, is that the NHL is not going to pay any attention to things like talent depth and the Canadian (or American) economy when deciding whether or not to expand. They've over-expanded in recent history and will do it again; they will base the decision on how much money in expansion fees (that they do not have to share with the players) the can divide among themselves. If it is a significant amount, they will expand, 'good of the game' be damned.
02-26-2013 11:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Ragu Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,841
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 608
I Root For: FAU/FSU
Location:
Post: #60
RE: Realignment for puckheads (latest NHL proposal)
I heard the 2 Canada teams are the odds on favorites right now to get the expansion teams if they expand. Agree on Florida too. I already went over some scenarios above. To me Columbus could be the one shifted back if need be. I don't think the league would move Detroit and then shift them right back considering all of the rivalries they are gaining (along with better tv)
02-26-2013 11:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.