(02-25-2013 02:34 PM)S11 Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 02:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  S11 your comment on West Virginia (especially if the SEC has acquired Virginia Tech) is spot on. The F.S.U. question is much more complicated. If there is movement beyond 16 (and I believe that will be likely if the ACC has been raided) then Florida State will be a fairly high priority as one of the few remaining national brands. It would be a good content add for the SEC, a good defensive move for the SEC, and perhaps one of only a very few schools that could be added to the SEC that is actually a cultural fit. So I would argue that at 18 or more teams if F.S.U. is still available that they would move from the not yet category to the probable category for further SEC expansion.

That simply gets into who's left. If the SEC gets into NC and VA with #15 and #16 who is left that adds enough?

FSU's a big get but who would be a good partner at 18? The only non-overlaps at that point are Pitt, Cuse, BC, and WVU or KU from the Big 12- none of which I see as realistic for the SEC.

They would be looking at that point for either a new market, an AAU school, or another content addition. There will be more than you might imagine to draw from. At 18 the SEC could find some value with Clemson as a content addition. Pittsburgh has already been kicked around by the SEC hierarchy and has value for markets and academics. Georgia Tech is not out of the realm of possibility due to academics and AAU status. Even Cincinnati has value for markets, just not as much as Pitt. Miami was a potential target in 1992, but I do doubt they would be now, but who knows?

If I had to guess they would look to Clemson and Pitt and in which order I do not know. People seem to forget that just 2 years ago the plans for SEC expansion (then considered to be long term projections) were Texas A&M & Missouri from the West and Clemson and Florida State from the East. It was only with the network footprint reward that Clemson and Florida State took a back seat to a Virginia and North Carolina school. If both a Virginia and Carolina school are acquired I wouldn't be too surprised to see us revert to our older plan for expansion if for no other reason than to be assured that F.S.U. did not entertain Big 10 overtures.

The SEC was willing to watch F.S.U. and Clemson go to the Big 12 if that got the ball rolling on a Virginia school and a North Carolina school. If the Big 10 cracks the ACC and Virginia Tech and N.C. State go to the SEC I doubt Slive will be content to let the next most valuable properties slip away. Plus if the SEC is hoping to expand to 20 then the next most logical choices (outside of Texas who wouldn't want the SEC anyway) would be either a second Texas school, one of Oklahoma/Oklahoma St, or Kansas if the Big 10 hasn't claimed them. Those options would not be immediate unless the Big 12 began to fall apart. That's why the SEC may be content at 16, or 18, even if they are looking to eventually go to 20. Twenty only happens with a couple more Big 12 schools. If the SEC takes F.S.U. and Clemson you will know that is their game plan. If they take N.C. State and Virginia Tech and allow F.S.U. and Clemson to move to the Big 12 you'll know they have no designs on further expansion, least of all from the Big 12.

In fact S11, I would think Slive would be very happy at 16, and would prefer it, unless Delany goes on a land grab. If the Big 10 moves into Virginia, North Carolina and attempts extension into Georgia with overtures to expand into Florida that would likely prompt the SEC taking of F.S.U. and Georgia Tech, or F.S.U. and Clemson.

There has even been much debate within the SEC as to whether an SEC offer for Virginia, Virginia Tech, Duke, N.C. State and U.N.C. plus another (Pitt is most often mentioned with this contingency) would be the best offensive/defensive move that the conference could make. The thinking is that then Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson and F.S.U. would be much more likely to move to the Big 12. I don't think the SEC is concerned with strengthening the Big 12 as they see them as a buffer to PAC and Big 10 incursions into the area, much the same way they saw the ACC as such a buffer. Plus they see the eventual cross conference play with the Big 12 as being mutually beneficial and profitable.

If movement happened first in the Big 12 the SEC would regard the ACC the same way.

(02-25-2013 03:01 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 12:41 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  The end goal is always Notre Dame. They will take enough ACC schools along with the SEC taking a few to get ND to move once again. If they go to the Big XII just watch as the Pac once again gets eyes for their own expansion. Notre Dame is the angel of death for any conference who harbors the Irish. First the Big East, now the ACC and then the Big XII if they go down that route.

The B1G will take UNC, Duke and UVA and the SEC will take VT and NC St which will essentially take the mid atlantic region away from the ACC and the Irish.

I also see the SEC taking FSU and WVU to really expand for their network.

B1G gets UNC, Duke, UVA and ND.

SEC gets VT, NC St., FSU and WVU.

If the Big XII is lucky the Pac doesn't take 6 of it's members. Though those 6 (UT, T Tech, OU, OSU, KU, KSU) along with WVU could easily just vote to dissolve the league which would dissolve the GoR agreement. If the Big XII doesn't exist then neither does their TV contract. That would certainly suck for Baylor, TCU and ISU, though I could see them hooking up with the remnants of the ACC and a few nBE schools.

BC, Cuse, UConn, Temple, Pitt, UofL, UC, Wake, Miami, Clemson, GT, ISU, TCU, Baylor, Houston, USF.

Good, maybe the Irish could move to the Big 12, then the SEC, then the Pac 12 and then the Big Ten.

After ND kills every conference, college football can start over. That works for me.

I should have said the angel of death who is following Notre Dame is the B1G. They will destabilize any conference who harbors their biggest target. The fighting irish.

I know Terry will vehemently deny this, but i think we eventually see ND join the B1G full time. I think the end game is three major conferences, one middle conference with the leftover Big XII, ACC and BE members (from this last season back), and then the nonpower leagues.

(02-25-2013 03:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 02:34 PM)S11 Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 02:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  S11 your comment on West Virginia (especially if the SEC has acquired Virginia Tech) is spot on. The F.S.U. question is much more complicated. If there is movement beyond 16 (and I believe that will be likely if the ACC has been raided) then Florida State will be a fairly high priority as one of the few remaining national brands. It would be a good content add for the SEC, a good defensive move for the SEC, and perhaps one of only a very few schools that could be added to the SEC that is actually a cultural fit. So I would argue that at 18 or more teams if F.S.U. is still available that they would move from the not yet category to the probable category for further SEC expansion.

That simply gets into who's left. If the SEC gets into NC and VA with #15 and #16 who is left that adds enough?

FSU's a big get but who would be a good partner at 18? The only non-overlaps at that point are Pitt, Cuse, BC, and WVU or KU from the Big 12- none of which I see as realistic for the SEC.

They would be looking at that point for either a new market, an AAU school, or another content addition. There will be more than you might imagine to draw from. At 18 the SEC could find some value with Clemson as a content addition. Pittsburgh has already been kicked around by the SEC hierarchy and has value for markets and academics. Georgia Tech is not out of the realm of possibility due to academics and AAU status. Even Cincinnati has value for markets, just not as much as Pitt. Miami was a potential target in 1992, but I do doubt they would be now, but who knows?

If I had to guess they would look to Clemson and Pitt and in which order I do not know. People seem to forget that just 2 years ago the plans for SEC expansion (then considered to be long term projections) were Texas A&M & Missouri from the West and Clemson and Florida State from the East. It was only with the network footprint reward that Clemson and Florida State took a back seat to a Virginia and North Carolina school. If both a Virginia and Carolina school are acquired I wouldn't be too surprised to see us revert to our older plan for expansion if for no other reason than to be assured that F.S.U. did not entertain Big 10 overtures.

The SEC was willing to watch F.S.U. and Clemson go to the Big 12 if that got the ball rolling on a Virginia school and a North Carolina school. If the Big 10 cracks the ACC and Virginia Tech and N.C. State go to the SEC I doubt Slive will be content to let the next most valuable properties slip away. Plus if the SEC is hoping to expand to 20 then the next most logical choices (outside of Texas who wouldn't want the SEC anyway) would be either a second Texas school, one of Oklahoma/Oklahoma St, or Kansas if the Big 10 hasn't claimed them. Those options would not be immediate unless the Big 12 began to fall apart. That's why the SEC may be content at 16, or 18, even if they are looking to eventually go to 20. Twenty only happens with a couple more Big 12 schools. If the SEC takes F.S.U. and Clemson you will know that is their game plan. If they take N.C. State and Virginia Tech and allow F.S.U. and Clemson to move to the Big 12 you'll know they have no designs on further expansion, least of all from the Big 12.

In fact S11, I would think Slive would be very happy at 16, and would prefer it, unless Delany goes on a land grab. If the Big 10 moves into Virginia, North Carolina and attempts extension into Georgia with overtures to expand into Florida that would likely prompt the SEC taking of F.S.U. and Georgia Tech, or F.S.U. and Clemson.

There has even been much debate within the SEC as to whether an SEC offer for Virginia, Virginia Tech, Duke, N.C. State and U.N.C. plus another (Pitt is most often mentioned with this contingency) would be the best offensive/defensive move that the conference could make. The thinking is that then Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson and F.S.U. would be much more likely to move to the Big 12. I don't think the SEC is concerned with strengthening the Big 12 as they see them as a buffer to PAC and Big 10 incursions into the area, much the same way they saw the ACC as such a buffer. Plus they see the eventual cross conference play with the Big 12 as being mutually beneficial and profitable.

If movement happened first in the Big 12 the SEC would regard the ACC the same way.

WVU fits in with the SEC to a T. They are a state school from a state that has a definite southern feel, LOVES their FB, a bordering state, has that SEC speed. They fit better than VT and NC St.

(02-25-2013 05:36 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 03:01 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 12:41 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  The end goal is always Notre Dame. They will take enough ACC schools along with the SEC taking a few to get ND to move once again. If they go to the Big XII just watch as the Pac once again gets eyes for their own expansion. Notre Dame is the angel of death for any conference who harbors the Irish. First the Big East, now the ACC and then the Big XII if they go down that route.

The B1G will take UNC, Duke and UVA and the SEC will take VT and NC St which will essentially take the mid atlantic region away from the ACC and the Irish.

I also see the SEC taking FSU and WVU to really expand for their network.

B1G gets UNC, Duke, UVA and ND.

SEC gets VT, NC St., FSU and WVU.

If the Big XII is lucky the Pac doesn't take 6 of it's members. Though those 6 (UT, T Tech, OU, OSU, KU, KSU) along with WVU could easily just vote to dissolve the league which would dissolve the GoR agreement. If the Big XII doesn't exist then neither does their TV contract. That would certainly suck for Baylor, TCU and ISU, though I could see them hooking up with the remnants of the ACC and a few nBE schools.

BC, Cuse, UConn, Temple, Pitt, UofL, UC, Wake, Miami, Clemson, GT, ISU, TCU, Baylor, Houston, USF.

Good, maybe the Irish could move to the Big 12, then the SEC, then the Pac 12 and then the Big Ten.

After ND kills every conference, college football can start over. That works for me.

I should have said the angel of death who is following Notre Dame is the B1G. They will destabilize any conference who harbors their biggest target. The fighting irish.

I know Terry will vehemently deny this, but i think we eventually see ND join the B1G full time. I think the end game is three major conferences, one middle conference with the leftover Big XII, ACC and BE members (from this last season back), and then the nonpower leagues.

God, I sure hope not. That will severely dampen my enthusiasm for ND football and college football in general.

Part of my enjoyment of ND football is that they have a unique status, go against the grain, don't fall in line, piss folks off, are the outlier, go it alone, earn their own TV money, etc...

I like that ND does not conform to the football conference model. I like it a lot.

I like it even better when they do it differently and also win big, like last year.

It seems to irk folks in the media and in conference headquarters even more. I enjoy the idea of that.

If ND joins the Big Ten, hell, they might as well be Minnesota, Indiana, Wisconsin or Iowa.

What will be the difference? Just another Big Ten school. Ho hum.

I root for Navy and BYU when not playing the Irish. At least, they try to do something different.

I would marginally like it better if ND ends up in the ACC or Big 12 than the Big Ten. That is my worst case scenario, my Doomsday event. That will royally piss me off.

Hell=just another random Big Ten member. Big deal. I am not the least bit interested in divisional or conference championships or "intra-conference" playoffs.

That is how I look at things. Random schools in random conferences, all about the same as the other.

All too uniform, too conformist.

Random schools in random conferences, all about the same as the other. Nobody doing anything different or unique. No thanks.

Zzzzzzz.....

(02-25-2013 05:39 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 03:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 02:34 PM)S11 Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 02:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  S11 your comment on West Virginia (especially if the SEC has acquired Virginia Tech) is spot on. The F.S.U. question is much more complicated. If there is movement beyond 16 (and I believe that will be likely if the ACC has been raided) then Florida State will be a fairly high priority as one of the few remaining national brands. It would be a good content add for the SEC, a good defensive move for the SEC, and perhaps one of only a very few schools that could be added to the SEC that is actually a cultural fit. So I would argue that at 18 or more teams if F.S.U. is still available that they would move from the not yet category to the probable category for further SEC expansion.

That simply gets into who's left. If the SEC gets into NC and VA with #15 and #16 who is left that adds enough?

FSU's a big get but who would be a good partner at 18? The only non-overlaps at that point are Pitt, Cuse, BC, and WVU or KU from the Big 12- none of which I see as realistic for the SEC.

They would be looking at that point for either a new market, an AAU school, or another content addition. There will be more than you might imagine to draw from. At 18 the SEC could find some value with Clemson as a content addition. Pittsburgh has already been kicked around by the SEC hierarchy and has value for markets and academics. Georgia Tech is not out of the realm of possibility due to academics and AAU status. Even Cincinnati has value for markets, just not as much as Pitt. Miami was a potential target in 1992, but I do doubt they would be now, but who knows?

If I had to guess they would look to Clemson and Pitt and in which order I do not know. People seem to forget that just 2 years ago the plans for SEC expansion (then considered to be long term projections) were Texas A&M & Missouri from the West and Clemson and Florida State from the East. It was only with the network footprint reward that Clemson and Florida State took a back seat to a Virginia and North Carolina school. If both a Virginia and Carolina school are acquired I wouldn't be too surprised to see us revert to our older plan for expansion if for no other reason than to be assured that F.S.U. did not entertain Big 10 overtures.

The SEC was willing to watch F.S.U. and Clemson go to the Big 12 if that got the ball rolling on a Virginia school and a North Carolina school. If the Big 10 cracks the ACC and Virginia Tech and N.C. State go to the SEC I doubt Slive will be content to let the next most valuable properties slip away. Plus if the SEC is hoping to expand to 20 then the next most logical choices (outside of Texas who wouldn't want the SEC anyway) would be either a second Texas school, one of Oklahoma/Oklahoma St, or Kansas if the Big 10 hasn't claimed them. Those options would not be immediate unless the Big 12 began to fall apart. That's why the SEC may be content at 16, or 18, even if they are looking to eventually go to 20. Twenty only happens with a couple more Big 12 schools. If the SEC takes F.S.U. and Clemson you will know that is their game plan. If they take N.C. State and Virginia Tech and allow F.S.U. and Clemson to move to the Big 12 you'll know they have no designs on further expansion, least of all from the Big 12.

In fact S11, I would think Slive would be very happy at 16, and would prefer it, unless Delany goes on a land grab. If the Big 10 moves into Virginia, North Carolina and attempts extension into Georgia with overtures to expand into Florida that would likely prompt the SEC taking of F.S.U. and Georgia Tech, or F.S.U. and Clemson.

There has even been much debate within the SEC as to whether an SEC offer for Virginia, Virginia Tech, Duke, N.C. State and U.N.C. plus another (Pitt is most often mentioned with this contingency) would be the best offensive/defensive move that the conference could make. The thinking is that then Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson and F.S.U. would be much more likely to move to the Big 12. I don't think the SEC is concerned with strengthening the Big 12 as they see them as a buffer to PAC and Big 10 incursions into the area, much the same way they saw the ACC as such a buffer. Plus they see the eventual cross conference play with the Big 12 as being mutually beneficial and profitable.

If movement happened first in the Big 12 the SEC would regard the ACC the same way.

WVU fits in with the SEC to a T. They are a state school from a state that has a definite southern feel, LOVES their FB, a bordering state, has that SEC speed. They fit better than VT and NC St.

I wholeheartedly concur that W.V.U. fits with the SEC. The issue would be, as I stated, if we already have Virginia Tech the markets that West Virginia adds would not be as great as those of other prospects.

Should the ACC survive intact and the Big 12 ever become destabilized I expect to see W.V.U. in the SEC along with another member of the Big 12. If however the ACC does get breached and Virginia Tech winds up in the SEC I think Slive will gravitate toward other targets that could deliver larger markets.

(02-25-2013 12:08 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 09:38 AM)gocards#1 Wrote:  

(02-24-2013 07:03 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  I certainly like the idea that Athlon has put Cincinnati on the list. We all know in Cincinnati that the university and it's fans and support are very attractive to any league.

Those terms don't exist in Cincinnati.

This is his thing. Nevermind that Bearcat fans have been bringing 3-5000 fans to Louisville each of the last 3 times our football teams played down there (which Louisville certainly has not been bringing to cincy). Look Louisville has great fans, but your constant diminishing of the Bearcat fan base is ridiculously petty.

Cincinnati fans want to brag about their fan support when they've consistently ranked dead last or at the bottom in the Big East in both football and basketball attendance since 2005. You guys had a top 25 team most of the year in football and couldn't crack 30k for the season.

(02-25-2013 06:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 05:39 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 03:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 02:34 PM)S11 Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 02:28 PM)JRsec Wrote:  S11 your comment on West Virginia (especially if the SEC has acquired Virginia Tech) is spot on. The F.S.U. question is much more complicated. If there is movement beyond 16 (and I believe that will be likely if the ACC has been raided) then Florida State will be a fairly high priority as one of the few remaining national brands. It would be a good content add for the SEC, a good defensive move for the SEC, and perhaps one of only a very few schools that could be added to the SEC that is actually a cultural fit. So I would argue that at 18 or more teams if F.S.U. is still available that they would move from the not yet category to the probable category for further SEC expansion.

That simply gets into who's left. If the SEC gets into NC and VA with #15 and #16 who is left that adds enough?

FSU's a big get but who would be a good partner at 18? The only non-overlaps at that point are Pitt, Cuse, BC, and WVU or KU from the Big 12- none of which I see as realistic for the SEC.

They would be looking at that point for either a new market, an AAU school, or another content addition. There will be more than you might imagine to draw from. At 18 the SEC could find some value with Clemson as a content addition. Pittsburgh has already been kicked around by the SEC hierarchy and has value for markets and academics. Georgia Tech is not out of the realm of possibility due to academics and AAU status. Even Cincinnati has value for markets, just not as much as Pitt. Miami was a potential target in 1992, but I do doubt they would be now, but who knows?

If I had to guess they would look to Clemson and Pitt and in which order I do not know. People seem to forget that just 2 years ago the plans for SEC expansion (then considered to be long term projections) were Texas A&M & Missouri from the West and Clemson and Florida State from the East. It was only with the network footprint reward that Clemson and Florida State took a back seat to a Virginia and North Carolina school. If both a Virginia and Carolina school are acquired I wouldn't be too surprised to see us revert to our older plan for expansion if for no other reason than to be assured that F.S.U. did not entertain Big 10 overtures.

The SEC was willing to watch F.S.U. and Clemson go to the Big 12 if that got the ball rolling on a Virginia school and a North Carolina school. If the Big 10 cracks the ACC and Virginia Tech and N.C. State go to the SEC I doubt Slive will be content to let the next most valuable properties slip away. Plus if the SEC is hoping to expand to 20 then the next most logical choices (outside of Texas who wouldn't want the SEC anyway) would be either a second Texas school, one of Oklahoma/Oklahoma St, or Kansas if the Big 10 hasn't claimed them. Those options would not be immediate unless the Big 12 began to fall apart. That's why the SEC may be content at 16, or 18, even if they are looking to eventually go to 20. Twenty only happens with a couple more Big 12 schools. If the SEC takes F.S.U. and Clemson you will know that is their game plan. If they take N.C. State and Virginia Tech and allow F.S.U. and Clemson to move to the Big 12 you'll know they have no designs on further expansion, least of all from the Big 12.

In fact S11, I would think Slive would be very happy at 16, and would prefer it, unless Delany goes on a land grab. If the Big 10 moves into Virginia, North Carolina and attempts extension into Georgia with overtures to expand into Florida that would likely prompt the SEC taking of F.S.U. and Georgia Tech, or F.S.U. and Clemson.

There has even been much debate within the SEC as to whether an SEC offer for Virginia, Virginia Tech, Duke, N.C. State and U.N.C. plus another (Pitt is most often mentioned with this contingency) would be the best offensive/defensive move that the conference could make. The thinking is that then Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson and F.S.U. would be much more likely to move to the Big 12. I don't think the SEC is concerned with strengthening the Big 12 as they see them as a buffer to PAC and Big 10 incursions into the area, much the same way they saw the ACC as such a buffer. Plus they see the eventual cross conference play with the Big 12 as being mutually beneficial and profitable.

If movement happened first in the Big 12 the SEC would regard the ACC the same way.

WVU fits in with the SEC to a T. They are a state school from a state that has a definite southern feel, LOVES their FB, a bordering state, has that SEC speed. They fit better than VT and NC St.

I wholeheartedly concur that W.V.U. fits with the SEC. The issue would be, as I stated, if we already have Virginia Tech the markets that West Virginia adds would not be as great as those of other prospects.

Should the ACC survive intact and the Big 12 ever become destabilized I expect to see W.V.U. in the SEC along with another member of the Big 12. If however the ACC does get breached and Virginia Tech winds up in the SEC I think Slive will gravitate toward other targets that could deliver larger markets.

One major problem the SEC has is that one of it's Major Brands is floundering. That would be Tennessee. It has rivalries that it never wins anymore. Adding both Virginia Tech and West Virginia would bring strong programs that could be new rivals to Tennessee in a northern division. The SEC needs to have a rebirth of the Tennessee brand and WVU will help with that more than a school like Pittsburgh, which is who I am betting you are leaning towards with your position.

(02-26-2013 08:43 AM)gocards#1 Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 12:08 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 09:38 AM)gocards#1 Wrote:  

(02-24-2013 07:03 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  I certainly like the idea that Athlon has put Cincinnati on the list. We all know in Cincinnati that the university and it's fans and support are very attractive to any league.

Those terms don't exist in Cincinnati.

This is his thing. Nevermind that Bearcat fans have been bringing 3-5000 fans to Louisville each of the last 3 times our football teams played down there (which Louisville certainly has not been bringing to cincy). Look Louisville has great fans, but your constant diminishing of the Bearcat fan base is ridiculously petty.

Cincinnati fans want to brag about their fan support when they've consistently ranked dead last or at the bottom in the Big East in both football and basketball attendance since 2005. You guys had a top 25 team most of the year in football and couldn't crack 30k for the season.

Uh they have the smallest stadium and they were always near capacity if not sold out when they hosted most of their conference games. Really twisting those numbers.

(02-26-2013 10:21 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  One major problem the SEC has is that one of it's Major Brands is floundering. That would be Tennessee. It has rivalries that it never wins anymore. Adding both Virginia Tech and West Virginia would bring strong programs that could be new rivals to Tennessee in a northern division. The SEC needs to have a rebirth of the Tennessee brand and WVU will help with that more than a school like Pittsburgh, which is who I am betting you are leaning towards with your position.

I think there is a strong border rivalry that could take place but surprisingly never has is WVU/UK. The old Hatfield/McCoy feud for the 21st century. A 18 team SEC (only if the B1G goes to 18) would look really good with VT, NC St., WVU and FSU.

SEC East:
UF
FSU
UGA
USC
NC St.
VT
WVU
Tenn
UK

SEC West:
Bama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Miss St
LSU
Arkansas
Vandy
Texas A&M
Mizz

B1G East:
PSU
Rutgers
Maryland
Virginia
UNC
Duke
Ohio St
Michigan
Michigan St.

B1G West:
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Nebraska
Iowa
Indiana
Illinois
Purdue
Notre Dame
Northwestern

Pac-18 East:
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St.
Kansas
Kansas St.
Colorado
Arizona
Arizona St.

Pac-18 West:
USC
UCLA
Stanford
Cal
Oregon
Oregon St.
Washington
Washington St.
Utah

Big 18 North:
BC
Cuse
UConn
Temple
Pitt
Cincy
Louisville
Iowa St
Memphis

Big 18 South:
UCF
USF
Wake
Clemson
Miami
Georgia Tech
TCU
Houston
Baylor

(02-26-2013 11:58 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 10:21 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 06:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 05:39 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 03:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  They would be looking at that point for either a new market, an AAU school, or another content addition. There will be more than you might imagine to draw from. At 18 the SEC could find some value with Clemson as a content addition. Pittsburgh has already been kicked around by the SEC hierarchy and has value for markets and academics. Georgia Tech is not out of the realm of possibility due to academics and AAU status. Even Cincinnati has value for markets, just not as much as Pitt. Miami was a potential target in 1992, but I do doubt they would be now, but who knows?

If I had to guess they would look to Clemson and Pitt and in which order I do not know. People seem to forget that just 2 years ago the plans for SEC expansion (then considered to be long term projections) were Texas A&M & Missouri from the West and Clemson and Florida State from the East. It was only with the network footprint reward that Clemson and Florida State took a back seat to a Virginia and North Carolina school. If both a Virginia and Carolina school are acquired I wouldn't be too surprised to see us revert to our older plan for expansion if for no other reason than to be assured that F.S.U. did not entertain Big 10 overtures.

The SEC was willing to watch F.S.U. and Clemson go to the Big 12 if that got the ball rolling on a Virginia school and a North Carolina school. If the Big 10 cracks the ACC and Virginia Tech and N.C. State go to the SEC I doubt Slive will be content to let the next most valuable properties slip away. Plus if the SEC is hoping to expand to 20 then the next most logical choices (outside of Texas who wouldn't want the SEC anyway) would be either a second Texas school, one of Oklahoma/Oklahoma St, or Kansas if the Big 10 hasn't claimed them. Those options would not be immediate unless the Big 12 began to fall apart. That's why the SEC may be content at 16, or 18, even if they are looking to eventually go to 20. Twenty only happens with a couple more Big 12 schools. If the SEC takes F.S.U. and Clemson you will know that is their game plan. If they take N.C. State and Virginia Tech and allow F.S.U. and Clemson to move to the Big 12 you'll know they have no designs on further expansion, least of all from the Big 12.

In fact S11, I would think Slive would be very happy at 16, and would prefer it, unless Delany goes on a land grab. If the Big 10 moves into Virginia, North Carolina and attempts extension into Georgia with overtures to expand into Florida that would likely prompt the SEC taking of F.S.U. and Georgia Tech, or F.S.U. and Clemson.

There has even been much debate within the SEC as to whether an SEC offer for Virginia, Virginia Tech, Duke, N.C. State and U.N.C. plus another (Pitt is most often mentioned with this contingency) would be the best offensive/defensive move that the conference could make. The thinking is that then Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson and F.S.U. would be much more likely to move to the Big 12. I don't think the SEC is concerned with strengthening the Big 12 as they see them as a buffer to PAC and Big 10 incursions into the area, much the same way they saw the ACC as such a buffer. Plus they see the eventual cross conference play with the Big 12 as being mutually beneficial and profitable.

If movement happened first in the Big 12 the SEC would regard the ACC the same way.

WVU fits in with the SEC to a T. They are a state school from a state that has a definite southern feel, LOVES their FB, a bordering state, has that SEC speed. They fit better than VT and NC St.

I wholeheartedly concur that W.V.U. fits with the SEC. The issue would be, as I stated, if we already have Virginia Tech the markets that West Virginia adds would not be as great as those of other prospects.

Should the ACC survive intact and the Big 12 ever become destabilized I expect to see W.V.U. in the SEC along with another member of the Big 12. If however the ACC does get breached and Virginia Tech winds up in the SEC I think Slive will gravitate toward other targets that could deliver larger markets.

One major problem the SEC has is that one of it's Major Brands is floundering. That would be Tennessee. It has rivalries that it never wins anymore. Adding both Virginia Tech and West Virginia would bring strong programs that could be new rivals to Tennessee in a northern division. The SEC needs to have a rebirth of the Tennessee brand and WVU will help with that more than a school like Pittsburgh, which is who I am betting you are leaning towards with your position.

I think there is a strong border rivalry that could take place but surprisingly never has is WVU/UK. The old Hatfield/McCoy feud for the 21st century. A 18 team SEC (only if the B1G goes to 18) would look really good with VT, NC St., WVU and FSU.

SEC East:
UF
FSU
UGA
USC
NC St.
VT
WVU
Tenn
UK

SEC West:
Bama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Miss St
LSU
Arkansas
Vandy
Texas A&M
Mizz

B1G East:
PSU
Rutgers
Maryland
Virginia
UNC
Duke
Ohio St
Michigan
Michigan St.

B1G West:
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Nebraska
Iowa
Indiana
Illinois
Purdue
Notre Dame
Northwestern

Pac-18 East:
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St.
Kansas
Kansas St.
Colorado
Arizona
Arizona St.

Pac-18 West:
USC
UCLA
Stanford
Cal
Oregon
Oregon St.
Washington
Washington St.
Utah

Big 18 North:
BC
Cuse
UConn
Temple
Pitt
Cincy
Louisville
Iowa St
Memphis

Big 18 South:
UCF
USF
Wake
Clemson
Miami
Georgia Tech
TCU
Houston
Baylor

The Big 18 is an interesting catch all to clean up the other three.

The 20 team SEC that I could see happen, because they DO need the Big Ten to move first, would be such.

East
Florida
Georgia
South Carolina
North Carolina State
Clemson or Miami

Central
Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Miss State
Vanderbilt

West
LSU
Texas A&M
Arkansas
Missouri
TCU (seems incredulous but it gets SEC games played in DFW)

North
Tennessee
Virginia Tech
West Virginia
Kentucky
Louisville

With this, WVU can have a division rivalry with Kentucky. The rivalries that will build up in THAT northern division will be intense. Finally, those schools will have a chance at the SEC postseason. In a two division set up, none of those teams will ever get a sniff of the SEC championship game.

(02-25-2013 06:20 PM)TerryD Wrote:  God, I sure hope not. That will severely dampen my enthusiasm for ND football and college football in general.

Part of my enjoyment of ND football is that they have a unique status, go against the grain, don't fall in line, piss folks off, are the outlier, go it alone, earn their own TV money, etc...

I like that ND does not conform to the football conference model. I like it a lot.

I like it even better when they do it differently and also win big, like last year.

It seems to irk folks in the media and in conference headquarters even more. I enjoy the idea of that.

If ND joins the Big Ten, hell, they might as well be Minnesota, Indiana, Wisconsin or Iowa.

What will be the difference? Just another Big Ten school. Ho hum.

I root for Navy and BYU when not playing the Irish. At least, they try to do something different.

I would marginally like it better if ND ends up in the ACC or Big 12 than the Big Ten. That is my worst case scenario, my Doomsday event. That will royally piss me off.

Hell=just another random Big Ten member. Big deal. I am not the least bit interested in divisional or conference championships or "intra-conference" playoffs.

That is how I look at things. Random schools in random conferences, all about the same as the other.

All too uniform, too conformist.

Random schools in random conferences, all about the same as the other. Nobody doing anything different or unique. No thanks.

Zzzzzzz.....

The Big East is the perfect example of a "random conference" that has absolutely no identity or real purpose to it. Ditto w/ C-USA as well.

The B1G used to make a ton of sense - but they're blurring the lines a bit. The ACC doesn't know what it is or wants to be - and they don't really control their own future it seems.

Unlike you, I see a good purpose in being in a conference. Unfortunately, "identity" seems to come dead last when it comes to expansion of conferences these days. "TV market" or "had a few good seasons and is the flavor of the month" are not adequate reasons to build a conference in my eyes. Geography, inter-university cooperation, and philosophy are. I'm not worried though, as this current model will fail once people being to lose interest in there nonsense super-conferences. It will severely hurt the college product in the long term.

(02-26-2013 11:58 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 10:21 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  One major problem the SEC has is that one of it's Major Brands is floundering. That would be Tennessee. It has rivalries that it never wins anymore. Adding both Virginia Tech and West Virginia would bring strong programs that could be new rivals to Tennessee in a northern division. The SEC needs to have a rebirth of the Tennessee brand and WVU will help with that more than a school like Pittsburgh, which is who I am betting you are leaning towards with your position.

I think there is a strong border rivalry that could take place but surprisingly never has is WVU/UK. The old Hatfield/McCoy feud for the 21st century. A 18 team SEC (only if the B1G goes to 18) would look really good with VT, NC St., WVU and FSU.

SEC East:
UF
FSU
UGA
USC
NC St.
VT
WVU
Tenn
UK

SEC West:
Bama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Miss St
LSU
Arkansas
Vandy
Texas A&M
Mizz

B1G East:
PSU
Rutgers
Maryland
Virginia
UNC
Duke
Ohio St
Michigan
Michigan St.

B1G West:
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Nebraska
Iowa
Indiana
Illinois
Purdue
Notre Dame
Northwestern

Pac-18 East:
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St.
Kansas
Kansas St.
Colorado
Arizona
Arizona St.

Pac-18 West:
USC
UCLA
Stanford
Cal
Oregon
Oregon St.
Washington
Washington St.
Utah

Big 18 North:
BC
Cuse
UConn
Temple
Pitt
Cincy
Louisville
Iowa St
Memphis

Big 18 South:
UCF
USF
Wake
Clemson
Miami
Georgia Tech
TCU
Houston
Baylor

No offense , but your proposed Big Ten West looks really crappy to me.

All this talk about severely hurting the college product is just silly. When conferences move to four divisions and have their own tournaments instead of just championship games, they will actually improve their viewership.

When you talk identity you are just replacing the word tradition. Change is necessary. When staying the same is detrimental to the conference, then it has to embrace change. What is coming will not destroy interest in college sports.

And yeah, first thing I thought when I saw that lineup Terry is that Notre Dame would Hate it. You wouldn't even be in the division that your traditional rivals are in.

Why exactly is change necessary?

Just to play these kids in more games per season so old men in boardrooms can count up more cash?

No thanks. That doesn't sound better for the sport.

I think going back to ten games and re-instituting freshmen in eligibility along with stricter academic requirements, small regional conferences and intersectional games/rivalries would better serve the student-athletes and the game of college football.

(02-26-2013 02:16 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Why exactly is change necessary?

Just to play these kids in more games per season so old men in boardrooms can count up more cash?

No thanks. That doesn't sound better for the sport.

I think going back to ten games and re-instituting freshmen in eligibility along with stricter academic requirements, small regional conferences and intersectional games/rivalries would better serve the student-athletes and the game of college football.

Well, for me, the divisions are already too large. I want to see it where every team in your division is considered a rival. Four or five team divisions will help in that regard especially if we can do it geographically. That is a bit of a problem now in the Big Ten due to it's homogenous nature.

Also I want to see more decided on the field instead of by pollsters. For that to happen we need better competition between the top programs. The idea of moving to three top conferences will pit much of that top competition against each other, especially with the merging of the Big 8 and the PAC 12.

I know that the suits will make more money off of this but I am not concerned with that.

(02-26-2013 02:16 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Why exactly is change necessary?

Just to play these kids in more games per season so old men in boardrooms can count up more cash?

No thanks. That doesn't sound better for the sport.

I think going back to ten games and re-instituting freshmen in eligibility along with stricter academic requirements, small regional conferences and intersectional games/rivalries would better serve the student-athletes and the game of college football.

Wait, Notre Dame should never join a conference but the rest of you guys need to go small and regional. I guess Notre Dame are the only ones allowed to be national.

Any single school, like Notre Dame, is free to "go national" under my scenario, sure.

(02-26-2013 11:42 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:43 AM)gocards#1 Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 12:08 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(02-25-2013 09:38 AM)gocards#1 Wrote:  

(02-24-2013 07:03 AM)Vewb1 Wrote:  I certainly like the idea that Athlon has put Cincinnati on the list. We all know in Cincinnati that the university and it's fans and support are very attractive to any league.

Those terms don't exist in Cincinnati.

This is his thing. Nevermind that Bearcat fans have been bringing 3-5000 fans to Louisville each of the last 3 times our football teams played down there (which Louisville certainly has not been bringing to cincy). Look Louisville has great fans, but your constant diminishing of the Bearcat fan base is ridiculously petty.

Cincinnati fans want to brag about their fan support when they've consistently ranked dead last or at the bottom in the Big East in both football and basketball attendance since 2005. You guys had a top 25 team most of the year in football and couldn't crack 30k for the season.

Uh they have the smallest stadium and they were always near capacity if not sold out when they hosted most of their conference games. Really twisting those numbers.

They didn't sell out any conference game all year and had a measly 21k against South Florida for homecoming. Not twisting any numbers. Our worst attended game of the year (Temple) was 9k more than their best attended game. When I said they couldn't crack 30k for the season I meant they averaged less than 30k for the season, which they did.

(02-26-2013 11:58 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  SEC East:
UF
FSU
UGA
USC
NC St.
VT
Clemson
Tenn
UK

SEC West:
Bama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Miss St
LSU
Arkansas
Vandy
Texas A&M
Mizz

B1G East:
PSU
Rutgers
Maryland
Virginia
UNC
Duke
Ohio St
Indiana
Purdue

B1G West:
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Nebraska
Iowa
MSU
UM
Illinois
Notre Dame
Northwestern

Pac-18 East:
Texas
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St.
Kansas
Kansas St.
Colorado
Arizona
Arizona St.

Pac-18 West:
USC
UCLA
Stanford
Cal
Oregon
Oregon St.
Washington
Washington St.
Utah

Big 18 North:
BC
Cuse
UConn
Temple
Pitt
Cincy
Louisville
Iowa St
WVU

Big 18 South:
UCF
USF
Memphis
WF
Miami
Georgia Tech
TCU
Houston
Baylor

8 Div games, one cross game. 4 team conference playoff. 3 OOC games. Semi finals on 1/1. Done ****ing deal.