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The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
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NJRedMan Offline
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The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
There are a lot of strange rumors going around about who will get invited to the league and how many will join the C7.

Lets just agree right off the bat that with what we are hearing 10 is not an option. It's 12 or 14 and that is from multiple sources.

Okay we all know who the shoe in's are. Butler and Xavier. No need to rehash them. I don't even think Stever can disagree with me on this one.

Next we have the ones listed by many sources but all have some flaws. Not a lot but not the slam dunks as the first 2, but still considered by many as near definite. St. Louis and Creighton.

Then we have those who could very well end up in if we go to 14 and on the verge of being left out if we go to 12. Dayton, VCU, Richmond.

We have one that would be a slam dunk but has one big problem and really only have a shot with the more we invite. Gonzaga.

We have a few who would be good add's but have more flaws or blemishes than those above them and hence less likely of an invite. Wichita St, St. Mary's, any FBS school (UConn, Cincy, Memphis, BYU, UMass).

Now we have the "WTF?" names that have been thrown out. Detroit, Siena, Fordham, Duqsene (sp?), Holy Cross.

Does everyone agree with this list? Anyone have ideas of their own?
02-18-2013 10:41 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
(02-18-2013 10:41 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  There are a lot of strange rumors going around about who will get invited to the league and how many will join the C7.

Lets just agree right off the bat that with what we are hearing 10 is not an option. It's 12 or 14 and that is from multiple sources.

Okay we all know who the shoe in's are. Butler and Xavier. No need to rehash them. I don't even think Stever can disagree with me on this one.

Next we have the ones listed by many sources but all have some flaws. Not a lot but not the slam dunks as the first 2, but still considered by many as near definite. St. Louis and Creighton.

Then we have those who could very well end up in if we go to 14 and on the verge of being left out if we go to 12. Dayton, VCU, Richmond.

We have one that would be a slam dunk but has one big problem and really only have a shot with the more we invite. Gonzaga.

We have a few who would be good add's but have more flaws or blemishes than those above them and hence less likely of an invite. Wichita St, St. Mary's, any FBS school (UConn, Cincy, Memphis, BYU, UMass).

Now we have the "WTF?" names that have been thrown out. Detroit, Siena, Fordham, Duqsene (sp?), Holy Cross.

Does everyone agree with this list? Anyone have ideas of their own?

Sounds about right...Siena actually has a decent fan base. Cuse is fairly strong in Albany Market for Hoops but Siena in the C7 would pick up lots of casual fans. Having brand name teams coming in could get attendance to around 10k. That said they suck as a team right now...maybe they are a player TBNL.
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2013 10:56 PM by TexanMark.)
02-18-2013 10:51 PM
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Title Offline
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
Take this completely for what it worth. I got this second hand this evening, so you know how that goes. But to tell you the truth, this particular person has never steered me wrong in the few times he's said something to me. In fact, last time, he told me a full week before the public was informed about an injury.

I was told: Butler, Xavier, SLU, Dayton, and Richmond. Public after Final Four.

Again, completely FWIW
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2013 11:16 PM by Title.)
02-18-2013 11:15 PM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
(02-18-2013 11:15 PM)Title Wrote:  Take this completely for what it worth. I got this second hand this evening, so you know how that goes. But to tell you the truth, this particular person has never steered me wrong in the few times he's said something to me. In fact, last time, he told me a full week before the public was informed about an injury.

I was told: Butler, Xavier, SLU, Dayton, and Richmond. Public after Final Four.

Again, completely FWIW

The problem I see with this is doing it after the final four. I mean, let's say Creighton with their great player gets on a run and makes the final four. Or Gonzaga or VCU? It to me would give us bad press to announce addition of teams after the final four, when very viable team is in our reach and we don't add them and they just made the final 4.
02-18-2013 11:24 PM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
(02-18-2013 10:41 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  There are a lot of strange rumors going around about who will get invited to the league and how many will join the C7.

Lets just agree right off the bat that with what we are hearing 10 is not an option. It's 12 or 14 and that is from multiple sources.

Okay we all know who the shoe in's are. Butler and Xavier. No need to rehash them. I don't even think Stever can disagree with me on this one.

Next we have the ones listed by many sources but all have some flaws. Not a lot but not the slam dunks as the first 2, but still considered by many as near definite. St. Louis and Creighton.

Then we have those who could very well end up in if we go to 14 and on the verge of being left out if we go to 12. Dayton, VCU, Richmond.

We have one that would be a slam dunk but has one big problem and really only have a shot with the more we invite. Gonzaga.

We have a few who would be good add's but have more flaws or blemishes than those above them and hence less likely of an invite. Wichita St, St. Mary's, any FBS school (UConn, Cincy, Memphis, BYU, UMass).

Now we have the "WTF?" names that have been thrown out. Detroit, Siena, Fordham, Duqsene (sp?), Holy Cross.

Does everyone agree with this list? Anyone have ideas of their own?

I think I would put Creighton in the same group with VCU, Richmond, and Dayton. Leaving only St Louis in that 2nd group~frankly I think St Louis may be closer to that first group quite frankly.
02-18-2013 11:26 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
(02-18-2013 11:15 PM)Title Wrote:  Take this completely for what it worth. I got this second hand this evening, so you know how that goes. But to tell you the truth, this particular person has never steered me wrong in the few times he's said something to me. In fact, last time, he told me a full week before the public was informed about an injury.

I was told: Butler, Xavier, SLU, Dayton, and Richmond. Public after Final Four.

Again, completely FWIW

That would be interesting. I hope the Blue Jays aren't left out in the cold.
02-18-2013 11:37 PM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
(02-18-2013 11:37 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(02-18-2013 11:15 PM)Title Wrote:  Take this completely for what it worth. I got this second hand this evening, so you know how that goes. But to tell you the truth, this particular person has never steered me wrong in the few times he's said something to me. In fact, last time, he told me a full week before the public was informed about an injury.

I was told: Butler, Xavier, SLU, Dayton, and Richmond. Public after Final Four.

Again, completely FWIW

That would be interesting. I hope the Blue Jays aren't left out in the cold.

It's got to be the distance. It's the only reason why.
02-18-2013 11:39 PM
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Sactowndog Offline
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
(02-18-2013 11:15 PM)Title Wrote:  Take this completely for what it worth. I got this second hand this evening, so you know how that goes. But to tell you the truth, this particular person has never steered me wrong in the few times he's said something to me. In fact, last time, he told me a full week before the public was informed about an injury.

I was told: Butler, Xavier, SLU, Dayton, and Richmond. Public after Final Four.

Again, completely FWIW

I think this is right. The schools are dead set to keep schools that fit a certain profile and that doesn't include public schools. I suspect Georgetown is in charge and they likely deserve to be.

Creighton is a great add but I think the schools want to maintain schools that the can reach by bus within the division to keep travel costs low and Creighton to too far away to bus for many in the west.
02-18-2013 11:43 PM
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Sactowndog Offline
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
(02-18-2013 11:24 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(02-18-2013 11:15 PM)Title Wrote:  Take this completely for what it worth. I got this second hand this evening, so you know how that goes. But to tell you the truth, this particular person has never steered me wrong in the few times he's said something to me. In fact, last time, he told me a full week before the public was informed about an injury.

I was told: Butler, Xavier, SLU, Dayton, and Richmond. Public after Final Four.

Again, completely FWIW

The problem I see with this is doing it after the final four. I mean, let's say Creighton with their great player gets on a run and makes the final four. Or Gonzaga or VCU? It to me would give us bad press to announce addition of teams after the final four, when very viable team is in our reach and we don't add them and they just made the final 4.

Maybe that is why they are waiting. Absent an attention demanding run it will be those 5.
02-18-2013 11:45 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
(02-18-2013 11:43 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(02-18-2013 11:15 PM)Title Wrote:  Take this completely for what it worth. I got this second hand this evening, so you know how that goes. But to tell you the truth, this particular person has never steered me wrong in the few times he's said something to me. In fact, last time, he told me a full week before the public was informed about an injury.

I was told: Butler, Xavier, SLU, Dayton, and Richmond. Public after Final Four.

Again, completely FWIW

I think this is right. The schools are dead set to keep schools that fit a certain profile and that doesn't include public schools. I suspect Georgetown is in charge and they likely deserve to be.

Creighton is a great add but I think the schools want to maintain schools that the can reach by bus within the division to keep travel costs low and Creighton to too far away to bus for many in the west.

1. No one school is in charge.

2. There will NOT be divisions.

3. Travel will be the same as they already have. UC/Xavier, ND/Butler, USF/St. Louis/Creighton.
02-18-2013 11:47 PM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
(02-18-2013 11:47 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(02-18-2013 11:43 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(02-18-2013 11:15 PM)Title Wrote:  Take this completely for what it worth. I got this second hand this evening, so you know how that goes. But to tell you the truth, this particular person has never steered me wrong in the few times he's said something to me. In fact, last time, he told me a full week before the public was informed about an injury.

I was told: Butler, Xavier, SLU, Dayton, and Richmond. Public after Final Four.

Again, completely FWIW

I think this is right. The schools are dead set to keep schools that fit a certain profile and that doesn't include public schools. I suspect Georgetown is in charge and they likely deserve to be.

Creighton is a great add but I think the schools want to maintain schools that the can reach by bus within the division to keep travel costs low and Creighton to too far away to bus for many in the west.

1. No one school is in charge.

2. There will NOT be divisions.

3. Travel will be the same as they already have. UC/Xavier, ND/Butler, USF/St. Louis/Creighton.

Maybe they are trying to improve travel. Creighton from a logistical standpoint is a pretty big outlier. They just are.

Providence to Tampa was 1358 miles
Providence to Omaha is 1421 miles
Providence to St Louis is 1158 miles

So this will make the max trip for Providence 200 miles less instead of 70 miles more. big difference there.
02-18-2013 11:58 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
(02-18-2013 11:58 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(02-18-2013 11:47 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(02-18-2013 11:43 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(02-18-2013 11:15 PM)Title Wrote:  Take this completely for what it worth. I got this second hand this evening, so you know how that goes. But to tell you the truth, this particular person has never steered me wrong in the few times he's said something to me. In fact, last time, he told me a full week before the public was informed about an injury.

I was told: Butler, Xavier, SLU, Dayton, and Richmond. Public after Final Four.

Again, completely FWIW

I think this is right. The schools are dead set to keep schools that fit a certain profile and that doesn't include public schools. I suspect Georgetown is in charge and they likely deserve to be.

Creighton is a great add but I think the schools want to maintain schools that the can reach by bus within the division to keep travel costs low and Creighton to too far away to bus for many in the west.

1. No one school is in charge.

2. There will NOT be divisions.

3. Travel will be the same as they already have. UC/Xavier, ND/Butler, USF/St. Louis/Creighton.

Maybe they are trying to improve travel. Creighton from a logistical standpoint is a pretty big outlier. They just are.

Providence to Tampa was 1358 miles
Providence to Omaha is 1421 miles
Providence to St Louis is 1158 miles

So this will make the max trip for Providence 200 miles less instead of 70 miles more. big difference there.

200 miles in a plane is a matter of minutes. The Blue Jays fan base to me makes the few minutes in a plane worth it.
02-19-2013 12:02 AM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
It's not just mens basketball. It's everything. That adds up.
02-19-2013 12:06 AM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
(02-19-2013 12:06 AM)stever20 Wrote:  It's not just mens basketball. It's everything. That adds up.

I know, but the commitment to BBall is what makes us all more money. This is prob why 14 has started to come into play. I think some presidents want different schools and the compromise might be just to add 7 and get them all in.
02-19-2013 12:15 AM
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HoyaAnt Offline
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
There has been reports saying that Gonzaga wants in and it will be no problem for them traveling since they have their own plane. If they can manage to join the New Conference for Basketball only and place their other sports lets say in the Sun Belt Conference, then we have to take them. Getting Gonzaga makes up for losing Syracuse and helps makes the new conference very strong right off the bat. The other teams would only need to travel out west once a year and it would certainly help with recruiting out west too. Getting Butler will help offset the lost of Louisville and Xavier replaces Cincy. My thing is, we have one shot on getting this right off the start. In my opinion, we need to identify strong Basketball programs that will make our new conference as strong as any in the Nation. We need Gonzaga, VCU, Butler, Xavier, and Perhaps St. Louis or Creighton as part of the first 12 for the new conference.
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2013 12:42 AM by HoyaAnt.)
02-19-2013 12:36 AM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
(02-19-2013 12:36 AM)HoyaAnt Wrote:  There has been reports saying that Gonzaga wants in and it will be no problem for them traveling since they have their own plane. If they can manage to join the New Conference for Basketball only and place their other sports lets say in the Sun Belt Conference, then we have to take them. Getting Gonzaga makes up for losing Syracuse and helps makes the new conference very strong right off the bat. The other teams would only need to travel out west once a year and it would certainly help with recruiting out west too. Getting Butler will help offset the lost of Louisville and Xavier replaces Cincy. My thing is, we have one shot on getting this right off the start. In my opinion, we need to identify strong Basketball programs that will make our new conference as strong as any in the Nation. We need Gonzaga, VCU, Butler, Xavier, and Perhaps St. Louis or Creighton as part of the first 12 for the new conference.
I'm almost certain you can't join bball only. It's not like football....
02-19-2013 12:45 AM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
(02-19-2013 12:36 AM)HoyaAnt Wrote:  There has been reports saying that Gonzaga wants in and it will be no problem for them traveling since they have their own plane. If they can manage to join the New Conference for Basketball only and place their other sports lets say in the Sun Belt Conference, then we have to take them. Getting Gonzaga makes up for losing Syracuse and helps makes the new conference very strong right off the bat. The other teams would only need to travel out west once a year and it would certainly help with recruiting out west too. Getting Butler will help offset the lost of Louisville and Xavier replaces Cincy. My thing is, we have one shot on getting this right off the start. In my opinion, we need to identify strong Basketball programs that will make our new conference as strong as any in the Nation. We need Gonzaga, VCU, Butler, Xavier, and Perhaps St. Louis or Creighton as part of the first 12 for the new conference.

You can't be BBall only. The NCAA says the conference you play BBall in is your home conference. Also why would they send the rest of their sports to the Sun Belt?
02-19-2013 12:45 AM
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
(02-18-2013 11:15 PM)Title Wrote:  Take this completely for what it worth. I got this second hand this evening, so you know how that goes. But to tell you the truth, this particular person has never steered me wrong in the few times he's said something to me. In fact, last time, he told me a full week before the public was informed about an injury.

I was told: Butler, Xavier, SLU, Dayton, and Richmond. Public after Final Four.

Again, completely FWIW

Not that I have a dog in the fight but I think this nailed it. Creighton might make more sense than SLU from a competitive standpoint but Omaha is nothing like the other cities in the league.

Omaha is one of the only "big" cities I've been too that behaves more like a sleepy college town. This isn't an insult AT ALL as it's a perfect type of city for me personally but it's not at all like the other C7 cities. St Louis fits the mold MUCH better, is a much larger market to boot and is closer geographically.

I think Dayton gets in based on their geographic proximity and built in rivalry with Xavier. Games like that SHOULD BE conference games, period. Also, Dayton hasn't been nearly as bad as I've seen some on here act like they have. Since 1999, they've been to 10 post season tournaments (6 NIT's & 4 NCAA's) and won a few early season tournaments.

Richmond will beat out VCU based on institutional fit and the fact they're named after the city itself sure won't hurt. Their history is a lot more similar than some want to admit here.

I think every school invited will get a significant bump over time due to increased exposure and competition.
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2013 01:07 AM by blunderbuss.)
02-19-2013 01:06 AM
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
(02-19-2013 12:15 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(02-19-2013 12:06 AM)stever20 Wrote:  It's not just mens basketball. It's everything. That adds up.

I know, but the commitment to BBall is what makes us all more money. This is prob why 14 has started to come into play. I think some presidents want different schools and the compromise might be just to add 7 and get them all in.

So something like that would be my choice but they currently do divisions in the A-10 where you play home and home in your division for sports like volleyball and one game in the other league. I would bet they do the same here. Makes travel much cheaper. Basketball is weird in that you play a single game except home and home against you rival. Travel is definately coming into play.
02-19-2013 01:34 AM
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RE: The Contenders and Pretenders for C7 Admission
If VCU is left out, I hope we go basketball only to the Big East.
02-19-2013 02:12 AM
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