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Statman101 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Basketball Questions:
(02-12-2013 11:56 AM)toley2345 Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 03:58 PM)Statman101 Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 02:23 PM)toley2345 Wrote:  
(02-10-2013 09:18 PM)OrangeCamel Wrote:  I listened to the game and they said McCarter may be out the next 1-2 games (in addition to the CSU game). At one point, they said it wasn't injury-related.

In the post-game, Laing said the team had faced adversity this year and the players had not handled very well. Also, the players' effort has been an issue over the span of the last few games. Very frustrating to hear this once again this season. Makes one wonder what the root of this is.

No, I don't think we'll have a winning season. Right now, it looks like the question might be... Will we have a 20-loss season?

What do you think is the underlying problem?

Injuries and not just Darren White. In fact, some guys are playing through injuries that keep them from playing up to full potential. That is all.

That is interesting to hear some players are playing through injuries. I think if Darren White was playing it would be the difference in a 4 or 5 game swing considering that is a huge difference. With Darren we had a guy that could take over games we do not have that now. Last year I thought we were a very efficient team from the field. We have not been as efficient part of the reason was when Darren (him being are primary option) the roles of the players shifted and they did not respond well. I think that is expected from such inexperience. I also think that fact they we have so many guys that can play multiple positions its kind of hard to settle them in a role.

I think a problem we have always had and believe me we have worse about this is we turn the ball over close to 14 times a game. It hard to win basketball games win you turn the ball over that much. We also have never been a strong rebounding team. In my opinion you do not have a lot of room for error if you don't rebound the ball. We also do not shot free throws that great but I'll admit in years past are free throw shooting has never be spectacular. We also don't go to the line much at all. If we did both things well I think we could have had a major advantage in both games.

We also do not play well on the road. I think that is an experience thing.

Some of the problems will be over come by time. Others we are up to the players if they want to get better.


Things I think we do well:

At times we we can cause a lot of turnovers (steals etc). Those games we have to decided to play to are talent level we have been great on defense.

In the games I have watched I think are team is very patient in the half court and unselfish. I think that is because of great coaching, last year I felt the same way.

I think the talent is there we just need to get a little stronger. We are a lot of fun to watch in the open court.

I think as long as these guys stick together and believe in themselves they will turn it around and next year I would watch out.

Interesting synopsis, but I couldn't disagree more with most of your points.

First, turnovers. Campbell is 5th overall in the league in FEWEST turnovers and 3rd in assist to turnover ratio BUT 7th in turnover margin.

Second, rebounding. Campbell is an even rebounding team in the Big South. Meaning that it rebounds as many as it gives up on average. That certainly takes a hit when White is not playing.

Third, free throw shooting. I don't know where you think Campbell isn't a good FT shooting team. In the league, CU is 5th in FT shooting at over 72% as a team. The teams above CU are Presbyterian, Liberty, Longwood and Charleston Southern is 4th. Outside of the Bucs...not exactly...the cream of the crop. So saying FT shooting indicates a good team is a little bogus. CU is also tied for 6th in FTs attempted in Big South play.

The real reason CU is struggling is .447 and .380! .447 is defensive FG percentage and .380 is 3 pt fg percentage defense. That is 10th in the league in both. It is that simple. Team needs to defend better.

Sorry to disagree with your opinion but in my mind the numbers say otherwise.
02-12-2013 04:14 PM
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toley2345 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Basketball Questions:
(02-12-2013 04:14 PM)Statman101 Wrote:  
(02-12-2013 11:56 AM)toley2345 Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 03:58 PM)Statman101 Wrote:  
(02-11-2013 02:23 PM)toley2345 Wrote:  
(02-10-2013 09:18 PM)OrangeCamel Wrote:  I listened to the game and they said McCarter may be out the next 1-2 games (in addition to the CSU game). At one point, they said it wasn't injury-related.

In the post-game, Laing said the team had faced adversity this year and the players had not handled very well. Also, the players' effort has been an issue over the span of the last few games. Very frustrating to hear this once again this season. Makes one wonder what the root of this is.

No, I don't think we'll have a winning season. Right now, it looks like the question might be... Will we have a 20-loss season?

What do you think is the underlying problem?

Injuries and not just Darren White. In fact, some guys are playing through injuries that keep them from playing up to full potential. That is all.

That is interesting to hear some players are playing through injuries. I think if Darren White was playing it would be the difference in a 4 or 5 game swing considering that is a huge difference. With Darren we had a guy that could take over games we do not have that now. Last year I thought we were a very efficient team from the field. We have not been as efficient part of the reason was when Darren (him being are primary option) the roles of the players shifted and they did not respond well. I think that is expected from such inexperience. I also think that fact they we have so many guys that can play multiple positions its kind of hard to settle them in a role.

I think a problem we have always had and believe me we have worse about this is we turn the ball over close to 14 times a game. It hard to win basketball games win you turn the ball over that much. We also have never been a strong rebounding team. In my opinion you do not have a lot of room for error if you don't rebound the ball. We also do not shot free throws that great but I'll admit in years past are free throw shooting has never be spectacular. We also don't go to the line much at all. If we did both things well I think we could have had a major advantage in both games.

We also do not play well on the road. I think that is an experience thing.

Some of the problems will be over come by time. Others we are up to the players if they want to get better.


Things I think we do well:

At times we we can cause a lot of turnovers (steals etc). Those games we have to decided to play to are talent level we have been great on defense.

In the games I have watched I think are team is very patient in the half court and unselfish. I think that is because of great coaching, last year I felt the same way.

I think the talent is there we just need to get a little stronger. We are a lot of fun to watch in the open court.

I think as long as these guys stick together and believe in themselves they will turn it around and next year I would watch out.

Interesting synopsis, but I couldn't disagree more with most of your points.

First, turnovers. Campbell is 5th overall in the league in FEWEST turnovers and 3rd in assist to turnover ratio BUT 7th in turnover margin.

Second, rebounding. Campbell is an even rebounding team in the Big South. Meaning that it rebounds as many as it gives up on average. That certainly takes a hit when White is not playing.

Third, free throw shooting. I don't know where you think Campbell isn't a good FT shooting team. In the league, CU is 5th in FT shooting at over 72% as a team. The teams above CU are Presbyterian, Liberty, Longwood and Charleston Southern is 4th. Outside of the Bucs...not exactly...the cream of the crop. So saying FT shooting indicates a good team is a little bogus. CU is also tied for 6th in FTs attempted in Big South play.

The real reason CU is struggling is .447 and .380! .447 is defensive FG percentage and .380 is 3 pt fg percentage defense. That is 10th in the league in both. It is that simple. Team needs to defend better.

Sorry to disagree with your opinion but in my mind the numbers say otherwise.

Good points the numbers that I was looking were on a national level. I agree for the purpose of making it to tournament play I should have focused on the performance in conference. I do agree that the defense has not been as good as it should be. The games I did watch we did not cover the three point line well at all.
Thanks for the input!
02-13-2013 08:47 AM
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OrangeCamel Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Basketball Questions:
(02-09-2013 10:40 PM)toley2345 Wrote:  4.) Does anyone think there is a chance for a winning season?

Even after the Liberty loss at home, sure.....THERE'S STILL A CHANCE!!

(Just win the remainder of the regular season and win the Big South championship in 3 games if we don't get the 1st round bye. If we get the bye, we'll just have to tack on a win in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament to solidify that winning season.)
02-14-2013 08:58 AM
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toley2345 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Basketball Questions:
(02-14-2013 08:58 AM)OrangeCamel Wrote:  
(02-09-2013 10:40 PM)toley2345 Wrote:  4.) Does anyone think there is a chance for a winning season?

Even after the Liberty loss at home, sure.....THERE'S STILL A CHANCE!!

(Just win the remainder of the regular season and win the Big South championship in 3 games if we don't get the 1st round bye. If we get the bye, we'll just have to tack on a win in the 1st round of the NCAA tournament to solidify that winning season.)

Lets hope that happens. But they shot the ball well last night. They just need find a way to defend better.
02-14-2013 10:25 AM
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Statman101 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Basketball Questions:
Again as I said, offense is not the issue. Defense is and at this point, finding a way to slow down the opponent is key.
02-14-2013 01:46 PM
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toley2345 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Basketball Questions:
(02-14-2013 01:46 PM)Statman101 Wrote:  Again as I said, offense is not the issue. Defense is and at this point, finding a way to slow down the opponent is key.

I should have acknowledged the point you made earlier in the post. My mistake, I completely agree with you! Do you think we need to tweak are defensive strategy or do you think its a personal issue.
02-14-2013 01:57 PM
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Statman101 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Basketball Questions:
I think its an issue of experience. Learning to play defense is one of the hardest things to do when transitioning levels. CU has to many new faces that have set out a year or are playing significant minutes for the first time in their careers. Its growing pains. Its not an excuse but look at great defensive teams and then look at the number of upper classmen or experienced players on its roster.
02-14-2013 02:07 PM
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OrangeCamel Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Basketball Questions:
(02-14-2013 02:07 PM)Statman101 Wrote:  I think its an issue of experience.

So, any guess how many more wins we're good for next season if the basketball program remains intact in its present form?

And another question....

Is it now time to start focusing on recruiting primarily newly-graduated high school seniors?

A look at rosters of schools that should be our peers, specifically the "Previous School" column.....

Samford (currently 8-17, 6-6 SoCon) - 13 players, 14 previous schools (one player also went to Fork Union Military; 4 Juniors, the rest are Freshmen/Sophomores)

Belmont (currently 20-5, 11-1 OVC) - 15 players, 17 previous schools (the extra 2...1 went to Hargrave Military and another transfered from Samford; 5 Seniors, 3 Juniors, 4 Sophomores, 3 Freshmen)

CAMPBELL - 15 players, 27 previous schools incl HS, JC, CC, "Academy", "Institute", other D-1; 1 Senior, 5 Juniors, 5 Sophomores, 3 Freshmen)
02-14-2013 03:45 PM
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YaleCamel Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Basketball Questions:
I always thought our recruitment of so many JUCO players was odd. I somewhat got it in the beginning of Laing's term because he was needing a quick infusement of some collegiate experience, but I never thought it was a sustainable way to build a winning program. Has anyone heard of a school recruiting like us and building a half-way decent program?

It's just another frustrating end of the season in the Creek. Much like the UVA game did in TOB at State this fall, I think the Liberty game may have done in Laing...

The question I have is how do we get to be more like our peer institutions (Samford, Belmont, etc.) that OrangeCamel has proposed? Is it a recruitment question? Is it a question of coaching philosophy? I'm curious to hear what others think.
02-14-2013 09:53 PM
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toley2345 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Basketball Questions:
(02-14-2013 09:53 PM)YaleCamel Wrote:  I always thought our recruitment of so many JUCO players was odd. I somewhat got it in the beginning of Laing's term because he was needing a quick infusement of some collegiate experience, but I never thought it was a sustainable way to build a winning program. Has anyone heard of a school recruiting like us and building a half-way decent program?

It's just another frustrating end of the season in the Creek. Much like the UVA game did in TOB at State this fall, I think the Liberty game may have done in Laing...

The question I have is how do we get to be more like our peer institutions (Samford, Belmont, etc.) that OrangeCamel has proposed? Is it a recruitment question? Is it a question of coaching philosophy? I'm curious to hear what others think.

When your trying to upgrade the talent of the program as well as keep players in the program with experience it seems to be a difficult balance. This year kind of reminds of the season we had two years ago. Were we had such a high influx of talent, but lack of experience, limited senior leadership and if I recall we had some key injuries that year.

Recruiting the JUCO talent I am not going to complain about because its given us players like Eric Griffin, Darren White and Darian Hooker. Who over the past couple of years I have enjoyed watching and have played well for us. But I agree I do wish we had more kids that came from high school and who are four year players. Guys like J-Rod and Trey Freeman (if he stays all four) are players that have been extremely valuable to are program. I just don't think its as easy as we think it is to get those type of players. All of the top high school basketball players in the state want to go to BCS schools and programs with established winning traditions. I think we have to try to locate kids who fly under the radar in the recruiting scene. With AAU and the internet its kind of hard to find those hidden Gems or Diamonds in the rough.

I think eventually they will come because the school and the program are becoming more appealing than in years past. When Robbie Lang first took over as the head basketball coach he was in a very tough situation. He took over a team that had seven straight losing seasons. Carter was the smallest gym in the country and Campbell was in a conference we should not have been in. So I think we will start to see more talented high school player we just have to stay patient. Would love to hear what everyone else has to say.
02-15-2013 11:04 AM
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