I thought OK ST lost earlier this week????

(02-28-2013 10:24 PM)Rocket A Wrote:  

(02-28-2013 10:17 PM)T-Town Wrote:  

(02-28-2013 09:47 PM)bjplink Wrote:  

(02-28-2013 09:03 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  Doesn't matter. They'll probably move up, and we'll probably move down. :muttering:

It will probably help Oklahoma State more than anything else.

I hate for my first post here to be self-promotional but I occasionally write about Toledo women's basketball for Hustle Belt, an SB Nation blog that covers the MAC, and I broke down Toledo's strength of schedule (prior to tonight's Western game) for my post this week and the numbers are just not pretty: http://www.hustlebelt.com/2013/2/27/4035...at-respect

I think best case scenario if Toledo wins out these last two regular season games is a 25th or 26th finish in the AP Poll. The loss to Central at home really hurt their chances at national recognition this season once you look at how terrible the rest of the MAC and Toledo's non-conference opponents ended up being. Ball State's win over CMU tonight isn't going to help matters any.

Again, as a first time poster, apologies for the shameless Hustle Belt plug but I thought some of you would find the numbers breakdown interesting.

I think that your analysis is pretty much on the mark but two things you did not point out are:

1) three teams on the UT schedule this season that have had respectable records in the past are all down this year---I refer to Milwaukee, Marquette and St. Bonaventure ....and,

2) With the country's 20th best record for home attendance so far this year, why would the Lady Rockets give up home games for road games against "big conference teams" who have poorer attendance records?

Because, it would improve their strength of schedule and their RPI, in case they don't win the MAC Tournament, it would have given them a better chance of getting into the NCAA's as an at large.

Not if you lose those road games because the loss will probably more that offset the improvement in SOS----think not? try this----schedule the top 10 teams in the country--all road games of course--, lose all ten games and see what it gets you. The BIG conferences with 5 or 6 ranked teams have the advantage of getting to play ranked teams at home and that is a big advantage. You think UT would have won the WNIT playing those same 6 games on the road? Besides, win the tourney (against what everyone says is obviously inferior competition) and you don't need an at large bid.

(02-28-2013 10:17 PM)T-Town Wrote:  I think that your analysis is pretty much on the mark but two things you did not point out are:

1) three teams on the UT schedule this season that have had respectable records in the past are all down this year---I refer to Milwaukee, Marquette and St. Bonaventure ....and,

2) With the country's 20th best record for home attendance so far this year, why would the Lady Rockets give up home games for road games against "big conference teams" who have poorer attendance records?

I can see how your first point makes sense. Those games were presumably scheduled by UT assuming those teams would be better. But Milwaukee (9-21 last year, 12-18 the year before) and Marquette (14-17 last year) haven't exactly been lighting things up since Toledo's home-and-away agreements kicked in.

As for your second point, UT's home attendance rank is nice but if they want to be taken a bit more seriously on a national level they can't have their cake and eat it too. Some kind of sacrifice has to be made and the obvious answer is to schedule road games against Top 25 teams. I think Toledo, at least behind closed doors, would probably prefer to keep the home games and the revenue coming which is totally understandable but it is hurting their chances of getting into post season play if they fail to win in the MAC Tournament.

It's not like UT is acting like BC$ football programs that only play at home - UT will have played 14 home games and 13 away.

(02-28-2013 10:41 PM)T-Town Wrote:  Not if you lose those road games because the loss will probably more that offset the improvement in SOS----think not----schedule the top 10 teams in the country, lose all ten games and see what it gets you. The BIG conferences with 5 or 6 ranked teams have the advantage of getting to play ranked teams at home and that is a big advantage. You think UT would have won the WNIT playing those same 6 games on the road? Besides, win the tourney (against what everyone says is obviously inferior competition) and you don't need an at large bid.

Well, I don't think anyone is suggesting they schedule ten road games against major conferences but I see your point. I just think scheduling one or two more would help them precisely because, as you say, large conferences benefit from playing against other ranked teams in their league and Toledo needs strength of schedule boosts to combat the current state of the MAC.

Obviously this is all moot because the season is almost over and there's nothing that can be done now but I appreciate the late night back and forth.

------

Side note, I hadn't noticed that Oklahoma State lost so I take back the Purdue slip helping them at all.

(02-28-2013 10:48 PM)bjplink Wrote:  I can see how your first point makes sense. Those games were presumably scheduled by UT assuming those teams would be better. But Milwaukee (9-21 last year, 12-18 the year before) and Marquette (14-17 last year) haven't exactly been lighting things up since Toledo's home-and-away agreements kicked in.

You omitted the third team included in that list, probably because it was not supportive of the point you were making, but permit me to inform you that the Lady Bonnies finished 31-4 last year.

i agree we need to schedule a couple more road games against 'bcs' teams.

sidenote, it also hurt that in our tournament, prairie view upset hampton so we played prairie rather than a top 100 20 win hampton

(02-28-2013 11:18 PM)T-Town Wrote:  You omitted the third team included in that list, probably because it was not supportive of the point you were making, but permit me to inform you that the Lady Bonnies finished 31-4 last year.

Permission to inform me granted. I omitted them because you were spot on correct so there was nothing to say. I just disagreed with the other two thirds of your argument.

Arguing about arguing is a good sign to wrap it up but bringing up Bonaventure again reminded me of one more point before I stop. One bright spot this season for Toledo's out of conference schedule was Charlotte. Their good showing so far (23-4 after last season's down year) has ended up being a nice fill in for what Toledo "lost" with St. Bonaventure's downturn. Beating them was probably the biggest plus to come out of Toledo's pair of non-conference road tournaments.

(02-28-2013 11:41 PM)bjplink Wrote:  

(02-28-2013 11:18 PM)T-Town Wrote:  You omitted the third team included in that list, probably because it was not supportive of the point you were making, but permit me to inform you that the Lady Bonnies finished 31-4 last year.

Permission to inform me granted. I omitted them because you were spot on correct so there was nothing to say. I just disagreed with the other two thirds of your argument.

Arguing about arguing is a good sign to wrap it up but bringing up Bonaventure again reminded me of one more point before I stop. One bright spot this season for Toledo's out of conference schedule was Charlotte. Their good showing so far (23-4 after last season's down year) has ended up being a nice fill in for what Toledo "lost" with St. Bonaventure's downturn. Beating them was probably the biggest plus to come out of Toledo's pair of non-conference road tournaments.

Thanks for your input. I enjoy a bit of informed back and forth as long as it doesn't degenerate into a juvenile name calling contest. Thanks for dropping by and don't be a stranger.

Playing a stronger non conference schedule also prepares you for the post-season. Assuming UT wins the MAC tournament, their NCAA opponent will be much stronger than any team they have faced this year. The MAC, for whatever reason, is not a good WBB conference. It has, occasionally, had some decent teams, but has always lacked overall depth. If UT wants to take the next step in WBB, it must improve its recruiting and scheduling.

(02-28-2013 11:37 PM)T4C8 Wrote:  i agree we need to schedule a couple more road games against 'bcs' teams.

sidenote, it also hurt that in our tournament, prairie view upset hampton so we played prairie rather than a top 100 20 win hampton

I had no idea Hampton won twenty. Both teams looked awful in the first half. I thought PV was way ahead but it was Hampton that more than doubled PV's 9 first half points. PV then made Hampton look like a HS team in the second half. Neither team looked like they had a shot at ten wins much less twenty.

Hampton had a game like Toledo did vs. Arkansas state last season. That stAte team had no business being d1 last season, let alone beating Toledo. Hampton just played bad...

(02-28-2013 10:41 PM)T-Town Wrote:  

(02-28-2013 10:24 PM)Rocket A Wrote:  

(02-28-2013 10:17 PM)T-Town Wrote:  

(02-28-2013 09:47 PM)bjplink Wrote:  

(02-28-2013 09:03 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  Doesn't matter. They'll probably move up, and we'll probably move down. :muttering:

It will probably help Oklahoma State more than anything else.

I hate for my first post here to be self-promotional but I occasionally write about Toledo women's basketball for Hustle Belt, an SB Nation blog that covers the MAC, and I broke down Toledo's strength of schedule (prior to tonight's Western game) for my post this week and the numbers are just not pretty: http://www.hustlebelt.com/2013/2/27/4035...at-respect

I think best case scenario if Toledo wins out these last two regular season games is a 25th or 26th finish in the AP Poll. The loss to Central at home really hurt their chances at national recognition this season once you look at how terrible the rest of the MAC and Toledo's non-conference opponents ended up being. Ball State's win over CMU tonight isn't going to help matters any.

Again, as a first time poster, apologies for the shameless Hustle Belt plug but I thought some of you would find the numbers breakdown interesting.

I think that your analysis is pretty much on the mark but two things you did not point out are:

1) three teams on the UT schedule this season that have had respectable records in the past are all down this year---I refer to Milwaukee, Marquette and St. Bonaventure ....and,

2) With the country's 20th best record for home attendance so far this year, why would the Lady Rockets give up home games for road games against "big conference teams" who have poorer attendance records?

Because, it would improve their strength of schedule and their RPI, in case they don't win the MAC Tournament, it would have given them a better chance of getting into the NCAA's as an at large.

Not if you lose those road games because the loss will probably more that offset the improvement in SOS----think not? try this----schedule the top 10 teams in the country--all road games of course--, lose all ten games and see what it gets you. The BIG conferences with 5 or 6 ranked teams have the advantage of getting to play ranked teams at home and that is a big advantage. You think UT would have won the WNIT playing those same 6 games on the road? Besides, win the tourney (against what everyone says is obviously inferior competition) and you don't need an at large bid.

I am not saying to schedule all your non-conference games on the road against big name opponents, but at least a couple would be nice. Challenge yourself, challenge your team. Didn't Cullop play at Purdue, how about playing a game in West Lafayette. No Big Ten teams on the schedule this year. You could even schedule a couple of other mid majors that are good year in and year out, like the Rockets did last year with Green Bay (I believe Green Bay is who you were thinking of in your point #1 above, as Milwaukee hasn't had a winning record in years). Green Bay scheduled a home and home with CMU this year like they did with the Rockets last year. How about scheduling games against teams like Middle Tennessee St or Marist, who have been tournament teams the last few years.

I completely agree with those who are saying to schedule better teams, and I do not agree with those who say it's not possible. There's got to be a happy medium. It's also too bad that the MAC is so bad in women's basketball right now. The lower half of the conference is just awful. Based on RPI, the Rockets have no chance of getting an at-large bid to the NCAA tournament. We've actually lost ground while on a 13-game winning streak. That's frustrating. It's sad but true that, even after everything this Rockets team has accomplished, the season will be a failure if we slip up in Cleveland. NIT? Been there, done that. Yes, the championship was incredible, but now we have to get to the real show.

Bought my tickets to Cleveland today. The woman at the UT box office wanted to sell me tickets just to the semi-final. I said hell no, give me tickets to the final as well.

(03-01-2013 09:11 PM)Dwight Wrote:  I completely agree with those who are saying to schedule better teams, and I do not agree with those who say it's not possible. There's got to be a happy medium. It's also too bad that the MAC is so bad in women's basketball right now. The lower half of the conference is just awful. Based on RPI, the Rockets have no chance of getting an at-large bid to the NCAA tournament. We've actually lost ground while on a 13-game winning streak. That's frustrating. It's sad but true that, even after everything this Rockets team has accomplished, the season will be a failure if we slip up in Cleveland. NIT? Been there, done that. Yes, the championship was incredible, but now we have to get to the real show.

Bought my tickets to Cleveland today. The woman at the UT box office wanted to sell me tickets just to the semi-final. I said hell no, give me tickets to the final as well.

My kind of fan!

A player of Naama's caliber needs to be unleashed in the grandest stage of em all

Get to the big dance ladies...

(03-01-2013 08:08 PM)Rocket A Wrote:  I am not saying to schedule all your non-conference games on the road against big name opponents, but at least a couple would be nice. Challenge yourself, challenge your team. Didn't Cullop play at Purdue, how about playing a game in West Lafayette. No Big Ten teams on the schedule this year. You could even schedule a couple of other mid majors that are good year in and year out, like the Rockets did last year with Green Bay (I believe Green Bay is who you were thinking of in your point #1 above, as Milwaukee hasn't had a winning record in years). Green Bay scheduled a home and home with CMU this year like they did with the Rockets last year. How about scheduling games against teams like Middle Tennessee St or Marist, who have been tournament teams the last few years.

I am OK with increasing the strength of schedule; however, I am not OK with sacrificing ANY home games to accomplish it.

While Miami was selling tickets for the UT game and (some) concessions for $1 and Ball was giving free admission, they still were lucky to get 1/10 of the attendance UT routinely draws charging full admission------that is an absolutely tremendous advantage that I suspect most people don't fully appreciate. Under no circumstances should the Lady Rockets be giving up any home games particularly for a "1 and done" to some BIG team who probably doesn't draw as well at UT------that kind of thinking has the ability to erode the UT fan base because 1) it is tough to beat a good team on the road (and without any opportunity to play them on your home court as well--it is just not worth it IMO)....and nothing cools fan ardor faster than losses, and 2) aside from winning, maintaining and growing a fan base is also helped by a steady dose of the product---i.e., home games that pay a bonus by significantly adding to the revenue.

I would say to the BIGS it has to be a "home and home" or there is no deal. I do like your idea of scheduling home and home games with teams like Green Bay and Dayton. St. Bonaventure is down this year but they are usually good as well. Depaul is another---there are a lot of good "mid-majors" out there facing similar problems--so that is one solution. A bit tougher solution is to try to work your way into getting invitations into good tournaments ---which is how UT got Charlotte on a neutral court this year.

In closing, I would point out that everyone appears to totally trust Coach Cullop's ability to recruit good players, get the right players in the game at the right time, scout and create the right game plan for each opponent, make the right calls with the X's & O's and do all the things necessary to built excellent team chemistry-----So why not also trust her judgement to build a schedule that is most advantageous to the program?

#22 Syracuse lost twice this week, although once was to #2 Notre Dame, the other to unranked Villanova.
#23 Iowa St lost to unranked TCU.
#24 Florida St lost to unranked Virginia, but also beat #9 Maryland earlier in the week.
#25 Purdue lost to unranked Mich St., they are in a nip and tuck game today with unranked Illinois.

#29 Vanderbilt lost to #11 Georgia by 5.
#30 LSU beat #13 Texas A&M.

(03-03-2013 05:15 PM)Rocket A Wrote:  #22 Syracuse lost twice this week, although once was to #2 Notre Dame, the other to unranked Villanova.
#23 Iowa St lost to unranked TCU.
#24 Florida St lost to unranked Virginia, but also beat #9 Maryland earlier in the week.
#25 Purdue lost to unranked Mich St., they are in a nip and tuck game today with unranked Illinois.

#29 Vanderbilt lost to #11 Georgia by 5.
#30 LSU beat #13 Texas A&M.

also
#26 lost to unranked but getting votes Texas Tech(who later lost as well)
#28 South Florida lost to unranked Rutgers

(03-03-2013 05:23 PM)T4C8 Wrote:  

(03-03-2013 05:15 PM)Rocket A Wrote:  #22 Syracuse lost twice this week, although once was to #2 Notre Dame, the other to unranked Villanova.
#23 Iowa St lost to unranked TCU.
#24 Florida St lost to unranked Virginia, but also beat #9 Maryland earlier in the week.
#25 Purdue lost to unranked Mich St., they are in a nip and tuck game today with unranked Illinois.

#29 Vanderbilt lost to #11 Georgia by 5.
#30 LSU beat #13 Texas A&M.

also
#26 lost to unranked but getting votes Texas Tech(who later lost as well)
#28 South Florida lost to unranked Rutgers

#26 being Oklahoma State.