(02-01-2013 02:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 02:33 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 02:27 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 02:15 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  You're looking for 1985 again.

Nahh, 3 Sweet Sixteens will do.

Quote:I would put at least a range of years where we need to make a statement in the tournament, but year 1 is not the end-all-be-all of this conference. In year 5, if we send 2 teams to the Final Four, guess what? No one cares about year 1 and only getting 1 team in the S16 or whatever scenario you're worried about.

Year 2, I agree. Year 5, that concrete's pretty hard.

Not if we break it. have some hope! The teams we have aren't coming in and saving the C7. There's an adjustment period. It's up to Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's and Nova to carry this conference in the first years.

You are dreaming if you believe this. If all 5 adds aren't good early on, we are in DEEP trouble.

you really are a downer bud!

(02-01-2013 03:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I think Georgetown and Marquette can do so, but I'm not convinced about St John's and Nova. Also, if the new 5 flop- that will KILL the SOS in the conference. That's what has gotten teams from the BE in the NCAA the last 3-4 years when maybe they shouldn't have gotten in.

and if the new 5 dominate that will KILL the SOS in the conference. if everyone is 10-6 that will also KILL the SOS

(02-01-2013 01:46 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I've never met a bigger bunch if negative nellies in my life.

Big East Board, about 6 months ago.

(02-01-2013 02:36 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 02:25 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 12:56 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 12:17 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 08:35 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  1. Good for Saint Louis. If they're joining, they better be good.
2. So VCU's Final Four run is a fluke, but SLU's win over Butler proves they're for real. Okey dokey.

No, but it proves they're not the dumpster fire many of your VCU-heads are claiming.

Not really--the fear of taking VCU is that their Final Four run is a fluke, right? That they'll get into the league and start DePauling all over the place. Then we've got this large public school with not-impressive academics who's not good in basketball with an empty gym because Shaka Smart went to go coach Memphis, pro or college.

That's the case against, right?

(Not sure exactly what those fans in Richmond are going to do instead, though. Netflix gets old.)

Apply the same thinking to SLU when they're playing Providence, Seton Hall, St Johns and Depaul instead of URI, Duquesne, Fordham and GW. They fall back a step. They have a nice arena, but is a 13-15 team going to fill it on nights when the opponent is an on-the-bubble Creighton? Is the arena really going to get recruits to want to join a losing Billikens team when they could go to Mizzou or Illinois or Kansas or Wisconsin or Arkansas or Indiana or Iowa State, all within a 6 or so hour drive of Saint Louis?

VCU's next coach can point at the rafters and tell kids that VCU is a Final Four contender and the ACC outside of Duke and Carolina is over-rated and yesterday's news. What's SLU's coach going to say when a recruit asks about the Big 12, Big Ten, SEC school who's looking at him?

But they're private and Catholic. So yay that.

I don't think anyone thinks they'll DePaul all over the place (nice new verb there though). But all those arguments fall to VCU too who will have to play tougher teams on a consistent basis than they ever did - and will start losing a lot of them to teams they were better then. Every team except for Xavier quite frankly is a concern and will probably have an adjustment period.

It gets late early these days. DePaul is already in. They've at least got Chicago. PRovidence and Seton Hall have no obvious path back to glory--they're bad now, they can't sell an NBA arena experience or Villanova/Georgetown/Marquette level history. Add a failed Saint Louis experiment, if the Johnnies don't make it all the way back, the bottom half of the league becomes a serious problem.

Yeah, you're totally right. Whatever teams are bad now will be bad forever. And whatever teams are good now will be good forever.

If DePaul was as short sighted as you, they would have ditched Marquette a long time ago.

(02-01-2013 02:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 02:33 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 02:27 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 02:15 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  You're looking for 1985 again.

Nahh, 3 Sweet Sixteens will do.

Quote:I would put at least a range of years where we need to make a statement in the tournament, but year 1 is not the end-all-be-all of this conference. In year 5, if we send 2 teams to the Final Four, guess what? No one cares about year 1 and only getting 1 team in the S16 or whatever scenario you're worried about.

Year 2, I agree. Year 5, that concrete's pretty hard.

Not if we break it. have some hope! The teams we have aren't coming in and saving the C7. There's an adjustment period. It's up to Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's and Nova to carry this conference in the first years.

You are dreaming if you believe this. If all 5 adds aren't good early on, we are in DEEP trouble.

Do you not read what I write or do you just purposely misunderstand. My point is not that none of the 5 additions are great or that they're all terrible. My point is that the heavyweights in this league are still Marquette, Nova, Georgetown and St John's, and those teams will be who we are going to end up staking most of this conference's success to.

Another thing. Why is it so ridiculously easy for everyone to get sooo down on Nova so quickly. I mean, seriously, is a team not even allowed 1 bad year? It looks like they're turning it around but we're acting like it's been 4-5 years since they've been good.

How bad are our sports memories getting? Talk about what have you done for me lately.

(02-01-2013 11:40 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 02:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 02:33 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 02:27 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 02:15 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  You're looking for 1985 again.

Nahh, 3 Sweet Sixteens will do.

Quote:I would put at least a range of years where we need to make a statement in the tournament, but year 1 is not the end-all-be-all of this conference. In year 5, if we send 2 teams to the Final Four, guess what? No one cares about year 1 and only getting 1 team in the S16 or whatever scenario you're worried about.

Year 2, I agree. Year 5, that concrete's pretty hard.

Not if we break it. have some hope! The teams we have aren't coming in and saving the C7. There's an adjustment period. It's up to Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's and Nova to carry this conference in the first years.

You are dreaming if you believe this. If all 5 adds aren't good early on, we are in DEEP trouble.

Do you not read what I write or do you just purposely misunderstand. My point is not that none of the 5 additions are great or that they're all terrible. My point is that the heavyweights in this league are still Marquette, Nova, Georgetown and St John's, and those teams will be who we are going to end up staking most of this conference's success to.

I don't think that'll be the case at all. I mean- you look at it- St John's hasn't been relevant in a long time. Butler and Xavier and VCU have done light years more than they have in the last 10 years. I could see someone coming in and doing as well as Louisville has done since joining the conference. Or even like Marquette quite frankly. I don't think it'll necessarily be like Cincy or DePaul with a long transition period at all....

(02-01-2013 11:40 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 02:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 02:33 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 02:27 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 02:15 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  You're looking for 1985 again.

Nahh, 3 Sweet Sixteens will do.

Quote:I would put at least a range of years where we need to make a statement in the tournament, but year 1 is not the end-all-be-all of this conference. In year 5, if we send 2 teams to the Final Four, guess what? No one cares about year 1 and only getting 1 team in the S16 or whatever scenario you're worried about.

Year 2, I agree. Year 5, that concrete's pretty hard.

Not if we break it. have some hope! The teams we have aren't coming in and saving the C7. There's an adjustment period. It's up to Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's and Nova to carry this conference in the first years.

You are dreaming if you believe this. If all 5 adds aren't good early on, we are in DEEP trouble.

Do you not read what I write or do you just purposely misunderstand. My point is not that none of the 5 additions are great or that they're all terrible. My point is that the heavyweights in this league are still Marquette, Nova, Georgetown and St John's, and those teams will be who we are going to end up staking most of this conference's success to.

how dare you question stever! he has delared that vcu will be the savior of the c7. The 2nd coming (even though they arent catholic or even christian). Anyone that fails to see the greatness that is vcu is a dreamer or doesnt know anything about BB!

(02-01-2013 11:28 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  Yeah, you're totally right. Whatever teams are bad now will be bad forever. And whatever teams are good now will be good forever.

Not every one. But if you go find a bookie in Vegas, and bet that each of the bad teams will still be bad in five years, and bet that each of the good teams will still be good, you'll win about 80% of those bets.

(02-01-2013 11:44 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  Another thing. Why is it so ridiculously easy for everyone to get sooo down on Nova so quickly. I mean, seriously, is a team not even allowed 1 bad year? It looks like they're turning it around but we're acting like it's been 4-5 years since they've been good.

How bad are our sports memories getting? Talk about what have you done for me lately.

It's not been just 1 bad year. 2 years ago was the year where they fell apart late, losing last 6, 8 of 10 and 10 of 14. Then, last year they were 13-19. This year 13-8 only. So, in last 67 games, they're 30-37. That's not just a bad year.

(02-01-2013 11:51 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 11:28 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  Yeah, you're totally right. Whatever teams are bad now will be bad forever. And whatever teams are good now will be good forever.

Not every one. But if you go find a bookie in Vegas, and bet that each of the bad teams will still be bad in five years, and bet that each of the good teams will still be good, you'll win about 80% of those bets.

*he was being sarcastic...unless your being even more sarcastic.

(02-01-2013 11:53 PM)ivet Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 11:51 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 11:28 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  Yeah, you're totally right. Whatever teams are bad now will be bad forever. And whatever teams are good now will be good forever.

Not every one. But if you go find a bookie in Vegas, and bet that each of the bad teams will still be bad in five years, and bet that each of the good teams will still be good, you'll win about 80% of those bets.

*he was being sarcastic...unless your being even more sarcastic.

Yes he was being sarcastic, but I'm serious about Providence and Seton HAll. It's not easy to see how they get back to being good--they're not in great recruiting areas, they're not in legendary arenas, they can't sell current success, they can't sell top-25-programs-of-all-time type history, and they're in a very very tough league. DePaul is bad too, but at least they're in Chicago, and have some pre-Big East success to talk about. So you're down to "hire a great young coach to work recruiting magic", which only works for as long as you can keep that coach.

If Saint Louis doesn't do well quickly in the new Big East, they fall into that trap too--they're bad, they can't use history as a crutch, and they're not in a good enough recruiting area to use that to get out of the hole. Which means that the bottom of the league is depressingly stable with SLU, Providence, Seton Hall, and probably DePaul.

(02-02-2013 12:12 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Yes he was being sarcastic, but I'm serious about Providence and Seton HAll. It's not easy to see how they get back to being good--they're not in great recruiting areas, they're not in legendary arenas, they can't sell current success, they can't sell top-25-programs-of-all-time type history, and they're in a very very tough league. DePaul is bad too, but at least they're in Chicago, and have some pre-Big East success to talk about. So you're down to "hire a great young coach to work recruiting magic", which only works for as long as you can keep that coach.

What? Every reason u give for thinking PC will suck forever is in reality the exact opposite. Young energetic coach born in Providence and working at his dream job, who is an amazing recruiter with two 5-stars and a 4-star on the books, with both 5-stars local from New London CT and west side of Providence, and the 4-star from Philadelphia, plus traditionally a ton of recruits from NYC, in great recruiting grounds (Noel from metro Boston, prep schools everywhere), in a recently renovated arena of 12,500 which is the 2nd largest in New England... have you been paying attention... we're finally breaking free of the Keno years...

(02-02-2013 12:40 AM)billyjack Wrote:  

(02-02-2013 12:12 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Yes he was being sarcastic, but I'm serious about Providence and Seton HAll. It's not easy to see how they get back to being good--they're not in great recruiting areas, they're not in legendary arenas, they can't sell current success, they can't sell top-25-programs-of-all-time type history, and they're in a very very tough league. DePaul is bad too, but at least they're in Chicago, and have some pre-Big East success to talk about. So you're down to "hire a great young coach to work recruiting magic", which only works for as long as you can keep that coach.

What? Every reason u give for thinking PC will suck forever is in reality the exact opposite. Young energetic coach born in Providence and working at his dream job, who is an amazing recruiter with two 5-stars and a 4-star on the books, with both 5-stars local from New London CT and west side of Providence, and the 4-star from Philadelphia, plus traditionally a ton of recruits from NYC, in great recruiting grounds (Noel from metro Boston, prep schools everywhere), in a recently renovated arena of 12,500 which is the 2nd largest in New England... have you been paying attention... we're finally breaking free of the Keno years...

I hope so. It'd be nice. And UConn will be down for a while with APR and new-coach issues, and BC is still bad.

New England still isn't a great recruiting area--compare to NYC or Chicago or south Florida. The arena is nice, but 12 year olds aren't on the playgrounds pretending they're playing at the Dunk. You'll notice that you're working that "great young coach to work recruiting magic." Hope it works, but if it does, his agent's phone will start to ring, starting with UConn and BC.

I don't know how down UConn is going to be. They've had a really nice year this year. APR seems to have straightened itself out from what I've read. Don't know what their upper limit is, but they aren't as down as I think we probably all thought they would be.

(02-01-2013 11:53 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 11:44 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  Another thing. Why is it so ridiculously easy for everyone to get sooo down on Nova so quickly. I mean, seriously, is a team not even allowed 1 bad year? It looks like they're turning it around but we're acting like it's been 4-5 years since they've been good.

How bad are our sports memories getting? Talk about what have you done for me lately.

It's not been just 1 bad year. 2 years ago was the year where they fell apart late, losing last 6, 8 of 10 and 10 of 14. Then, last year they were 13-19. This year 13-8 only. So, in last 67 games, they're 30-37. That's not just a bad year.

Um so it was a season and a half. Nova has not been down that long. UF was down longer than them and look at them now.

(02-02-2013 12:12 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 11:53 PM)ivet Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 11:51 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 11:28 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  Yeah, you're totally right. Whatever teams are bad now will be bad forever. And whatever teams are good now will be good forever.

Not every one. But if you go find a bookie in Vegas, and bet that each of the bad teams will still be bad in five years, and bet that each of the good teams will still be good, you'll win about 80% of those bets.

*he was being sarcastic...unless your being even more sarcastic.

Yes he was being sarcastic, but I'm serious about Providence and Seton HAll. It's not easy to see how they get back to being good--they're not in great recruiting areas, they're not in legendary arenas, they can't sell current success, they can't sell top-25-programs-of-all-time type history, and they're in a very very tough league. DePaul is bad too, but at least they're in Chicago, and have some pre-Big East success to talk about. So you're down to "hire a great young coach to work recruiting magic", which only works for as long as you can keep that coach.

If Saint Louis doesn't do well quickly in the new Big East, they fall into that trap too--they're bad, they can't use history as a crutch, and they're not in a good enough recruiting area to use that to get out of the hole. Which means that the bottom of the league is depressingly stable with SLU, Providence, Seton Hall, and probably DePaul.

Getting to play Xavier, Creighton, Dayton, SLU, VCU instead of Cuse, UConn, Louisville, Pitt, etc will help those programs breathe a little easier and gain momentum. It was really easy to get buried in the Big East. It was just so deep and its hard to gain traction if you weren't the major name programs.

(02-01-2013 11:53 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 11:44 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  Another thing. Why is it so ridiculously easy for everyone to get sooo down on Nova so quickly. I mean, seriously, is a team not even allowed 1 bad year? It looks like they're turning it around but we're acting like it's been 4-5 years since they've been good.

How bad are our sports memories getting? Talk about what have you done for me lately.

It's not been just 1 bad year. 2 years ago was the year where they fell apart late, losing last 6, 8 of 10 and 10 of 14. Then, last year they were 13-19. This year 13-8 only. So, in last 67 games, they're 30-37. That's not just a bad year.

Okay, so a bad year and a half. What's your point? Villanova is and will continue to be a significantly better program than VCU ever has been.

(02-02-2013 11:31 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 11:53 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-01-2013 11:44 PM)aughnanure Wrote:  Another thing. Why is it so ridiculously easy for everyone to get sooo down on Nova so quickly. I mean, seriously, is a team not even allowed 1 bad year? It looks like they're turning it around but we're acting like it's been 4-5 years since they've been good.

How bad are our sports memories getting? Talk about what have you done for me lately.

It's not been just 1 bad year. 2 years ago was the year where they fell apart late, losing last 6, 8 of 10 and 10 of 14. Then, last year they were 13-19. This year 13-8 only. So, in last 67 games, they're 30-37. That's not just a bad year.

Okay, so a bad year and a half. What's your point? Villanova is and will continue to be a significantly better program than VCU ever has been.

Exactly. He seems to gloss over the fact that Villanova has 2 wins over top 10 teams in the SAME WEEK. They are still headed down the road to mediocraty with no way of turning back! yet vcu since tey beat duke on their way to the final 4 is headed down the path to eternal greatness

(02-02-2013 12:58 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(02-02-2013 12:40 AM)billyjack Wrote:  

(02-02-2013 12:12 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Yes he was being sarcastic, but I'm serious about Providence and Seton HAll. It's not easy to see how they get back to being good--they're not in great recruiting areas, they're not in legendary arenas, they can't sell current success, they can't sell top-25-programs-of-all-time type history, and they're in a very very tough league. DePaul is bad too, but at least they're in Chicago, and have some pre-Big East success to talk about. So you're down to "hire a great young coach to work recruiting magic", which only works for as long as you can keep that coach.

What? Every reason u give for thinking PC will suck forever is in reality the exact opposite. Young energetic coach born in Providence and working at his dream job, who is an amazing recruiter with two 5-stars and a 4-star on the books, with both 5-stars local from New London CT and west side of Providence, and the 4-star from Philadelphia, plus traditionally a ton of recruits from NYC, in great recruiting grounds (Noel from metro Boston, prep schools everywhere), in a recently renovated arena of 12,500 which is the 2nd largest in New England... have you been paying attention... we're finally breaking free of the Keno years...

I hope so. It'd be nice. And UConn will be down for a while with APR and new-coach issues, and BC is still bad.

New England still isn't a great recruiting area--compare to NYC or Chicago or south Florida. The arena is nice, but 12 year olds aren't on the playgrounds pretending they're playing at the Dunk. You'll notice that you're working that "great young coach to work recruiting magic." Hope it works, but if it does, his agent's phone will start to ring, starting with UConn and BC.

One of the benefits of being in a conference like the c7 (or the BE) is that you dont have to be restricted to recruiting regionally. Providence is close enough to nyc that a recruits family and friends are able to attend home games with relative ease. Even Philly is doable. I also dont think a nba arena is necesary. Seton Hall's arena was designed with the nets in mind. Plenty of good schools dont have one. If schools such as xavier, gonzaga,creighton,marquette and butler can acheive national success, there isnt any reason why providence, seton hall, depaul and st louis cant. They've done it before.
Providence is committed to success in its overall athletic program. Their two most visable programs have new young energetic coaches that seem to be turning the programs around(hockey and bb) They are in the process of upgrading(?) their mens lax program into being fully supported. New coaching hires in mens lax, womens BB. Coaches that have been awarded BE (or hockey east) coach of the year in x country womens hockey and field hockey.
With the exception of the pool every athletic venue at PC has been remodeled or newly built in the past 5 years or so, or there are plans to do so in the next 2. The new softball facilty may be about 6 or 7 years old. They just finished the renovation of the womenss BB and volleyball facility. Mens BB was completed about 2 years ago. Field hockey and lax about 5 or 6 years ago. Ice hockey in the process now of a major renovation/addition. Plans to break ground in the spring for a brand new track/soccer complex. The tennis courts will also be moved and thus rebuilt.
PC gets it, even though the mens BB record doesnt reflect it, they have made tremendous improvements since last year, both on the court and off. They only have one loss this year by over 10 points. Had they been healthy at the begining of the year and had a full team they could have easily won a few of those games. I honestly believe they are on the right path witht this coach.I expect good things next year. Of course if its more of the same then i may change my mind!