The years 2010 to 2012 have probably had, in general, very little impact on this years standings. The MAC, as most if not all football leagues, is QB centric. Have an above average to great QB and you'll normally be in the upper tier.

That said we better watch out for EMU because they have the highest rated recruit, Brogan Roback a 4* QB from St. John's here in Toledo. If he was truly a 4* he would have had at least one BCS offer but he has none and he went camping all over the place. He chose EMU over Ohio, Toledo and BGSU obviously better schools than EMU.

If you look at the average point rankings, as someone stated, most schools are grouped around the 2.2 area not a lot of difference. That's where coaching comes into play.

(01-29-2013 11:24 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  How many times has Toledo gone to the MACC in those years? I'm sure Toledo has been #1 going back since the birth of college football.

Again, I pay no attention to this. And for a reason.

I believe this is a testament to the NIU coaching staff. To pay absolutely no attention to the rankings at all is just silly.

(01-29-2013 11:55 AM)BrianPersky Wrote:  

(01-29-2013 11:24 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  How many times has Toledo gone to the MACC in those years? I'm sure Toledo has been #1 going back since the birth of college football.

Again, I pay no attention to this. And for a reason.

I believe this is a testament to the NIU coaching staff. To pay absolutely no attention to the rankings at all is just silly.

We've had a lot of coaching changes over the past decade though. Even when Novak was here we were constantly losing assistant coaches. Makes the coaching theory a bit sketchy.

(01-29-2013 11:55 AM)BrianPersky Wrote:  

(01-29-2013 11:24 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  How many times has Toledo gone to the MACC in those years? I'm sure Toledo has been #1 going back since the birth of college football.

Again, I pay no attention to this. And for a reason.

I believe this is a testament to the NIU coaching staff. To pay absolutely no attention to the rankings at all is just silly.

That's exactly what I have been saying. Put the faith and value into the coaches, not the ratings sites. If I believed the sites, Toledo would win the MACC and their bowl games every year and be in the top 25 consistently. Obviously, this has not come close to happening.

(01-29-2013 12:09 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(01-29-2013 11:55 AM)BrianPersky Wrote:  

(01-29-2013 11:24 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  How many times has Toledo gone to the MACC in those years? I'm sure Toledo has been #1 going back since the birth of college football.

Again, I pay no attention to this. And for a reason.

I believe this is a testament to the NIU coaching staff. To pay absolutely no attention to the rankings at all is just silly.

That's exactly what I have been saying. Put the faith and value into the coaches, not the ratings sites. If I believed the sites, Toledo would win the MACC and their bowl games every year and be in the top 25 consistently. Obviously, this has not come close to happening.

I think what he's saying though is that our recruits aren't that good, but the coaching helps them a lot. You're saying that the recruits are good, but it isn't reflected in the recruiting rankings (at least I think that's what you're saying).

When you play against top 10 teams, rankings may indicate your level of talent.
How long are we going to be a bunch of midsize overachievers.
Yes Jerry Kill had an excellent eye for overlooked talent.
Yes putting the right team together counts for more then ranking stars!
Coach Carrey has huge expectations.
Will NIU be the first BCS busting team to fail to use it as a tool to boost recruiting ?
I hope Carey can coach, because unless we get a miracle in the next week, he sure cannot recruit.

(01-29-2013 12:18 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  I think what he's saying though is that our recruits aren't that good, but the coaching helps them a lot.

Basically yes... thanks

How many recruits are rated highly and then turn out to be duds? I cannot say whether our recruits are good or bad until we see them play at the college level. Sorry, but I keep thinking about our stud players who were not ranked highly.

(01-29-2013 09:36 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  Every year people look at these stupid ratings and worry that we are going down the drain. We are never at the top when it comes to recruiting - per the infallible rating services. However, the proof is in the pudding. Not counting our injury-riddled year, we have had excellent teams for a decade. Oh, and we did pretty well without a stand-out QB. Our NFL-caliber RBs took their place in carrying the team.

The worst thing you can do is to read and believe these ratings sites. They look at some statistics, and that's it. They do not know what is in a kid's heart and mind. But, our coaches do.

I think what would be more telling is if scout/rivals went back and re-rated recruits after they have finished their college days.

Some 2 star recruits that no one thought anything of:

Michael Turner
Doug Free
Garrett Wolfe
Jake Nordin
Larry English
Chandler Harnish
Pat Schiller
Nathan Plamer
Scott Wedige
Jordan Lynch
Martel Moore
Perez Ashford

I know there are many i am missing...and lets not forget some of the preferred walkons that starred at NIU..Chad Spann comes to mind right away.


Some 3 stars that were highly touted..

Andre Brown
Britt Davis
Orlando Moore

I am sure there are more I am missing here as well.

(01-29-2013 12:30 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(01-29-2013 09:36 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  Every year people look at these stupid ratings and worry that we are going down the drain. We are never at the top when it comes to recruiting - per the infallible rating services. However, the proof is in the pudding. Not counting our injury-riddled year, we have had excellent teams for a decade. Oh, and we did pretty well without a stand-out QB. Our NFL-caliber RBs took their place in carrying the team.

The worst thing you can do is to read and believe these ratings sites. They look at some statistics, and that's it. They do not know what is in a kid's heart and mind. But, our coaches do.

I think what would be more telling is if scout/rivals went back and re-rated recruits after they have finished their college days.

Some 2 star recruits that no one thought anything of:

Michael Turner
Doug Free
Garrett Wolfe
Jake Nordin
Larry English
Chandler Harnish
Pat Schiller
Nathan Plamer
Scott Wedige
Jordan Lynch
Martel Moore
Perez Ashford

I know there are many i am missing...and lets not forget some of the preferred walkons that starred at NIU..Chad Spann comes to mind right away.


Some 3 stars that were highly touted..

Andre Brown
Britt Davis
Orlando Moore

I am sure there are more I am missing here as well.

Exactly. And I am supposed to put my faith in those rating services? Nope.

(01-29-2013 12:09 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(01-29-2013 11:55 AM)BrianPersky Wrote:  

(01-29-2013 11:24 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  How many times has Toledo gone to the MACC in those years? I'm sure Toledo has been #1 going back since the birth of college football.

Again, I pay no attention to this. And for a reason.

I believe this is a testament to the NIU coaching staff. To pay absolutely no attention to the rankings at all is just silly.

That's exactly what I have been saying. Put the faith and value into the coaches, not the ratings sites. If I believed the sites, Toledo would win the MACC and their bowl games every year and be in the top 25 consistently. Obviously, this has not come close to happening.

This year, we proved we could win the MAC and go one step beyond, by playing a top 10 team. At that level the recruiting ingredient needs to be as strong as the coaching element.
By picking Carrey we may have taken a step backwards??
We might still win the MAC, but barring an outstanding season
we will not repeat in a BCS Bowl.

Has Toledo had a top recruiting class every year?
Have they stayed?
Have they been team players or prima donnas?

(01-29-2013 11:08 AM)niufb83 Wrote:  

(01-29-2013 10:31 AM)DogTracks Wrote:  Do these sites ever discuss their methodology?

All we ever see is a star rating, some stats and some measurables and a video clip or two.

I read some baseball prospect writing and even when they're writing up amateur talent they're relying on first hand observations and a ton of dialog with scouts.

Unless these sites are doing their rating heavily influenced by contacts on staffs at all levels of program (guys who are professional talent evaluators) they aren't doing much more than voodoo. And if they are doing that, they need to start showing their work.

I understand all of the concerns with recruting services rankings, but these are two sites that College Coaches to pay attention to when evealuating and recruting. Being a high school coach, these do matter, and Schools offer scholarships to kids wihtout even seeing much of them, especially if they are rated high on Scout or rivals. I have 1st hand knowledge of this.
Also, last season Rivals recruiting rankings had Alabama #1, Florida#3. Ohio State #4, Stanford #5, Florida State #8. To say they are not credible would not be the truth. they evaluate on a lot of things , and certainly some kids get overlooked, but they also are dead on with others.

Your statement that coaches pay attention to these sites when recruiting and evaluating a player is not really accurate.
Most coaches I know view volumes of tape, attend camps out the ying yang and have connections all over the country....
I think a dozen coaches on a football team put more stock in what they personally come to know and see, than in a site hangin stars on a website....

(01-29-2013 12:30 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(01-29-2013 09:36 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  Every year people look at these stupid ratings and worry that we are going down the drain. We are never at the top when it comes to recruiting - per the infallible rating services. However, the proof is in the pudding. Not counting our injury-riddled year, we have had excellent teams for a decade. Oh, and we did pretty well without a stand-out QB. Our NFL-caliber RBs took their place in carrying the team.

The worst thing you can do is to read and believe these ratings sites. They look at some statistics, and that's it. They do not know what is in a kid's heart and mind. But, our coaches do.

I think what would be more telling is if scout/rivals went back and re-rated recruits after they have finished their college days.

Some 2 star recruits that no one thought anything of:

Michael Turner
Doug Free
Garrett Wolfe
Jake Nordin
Larry English
Chandler Harnish
Pat Schiller
Nathan Plamer
Scott Wedige
Jordan Lynch
Martel Moore
Perez Ashford

I know there are many i am missing...and lets not forget some of the preferred walkons that starred at NIU..Chad Spann comes to mind right away.


Some 3 stars that were highly touted..

Andre Brown
Britt Davis
Orlando Moore

I am sure there are more I am missing here as well.

Womble
Barksdale
Stingily
Boenzi

These recruiting services rankings are like somebody calling your girlfriend/boyfriend ugly....who cares?

I'm fine dating all the good players that weren't ranked all that highly and have won a lot of games at NIU. It never ceases to amaze me why people care what these sites think.

Heck, the NFL draft is a crapshoot and their scouts and coaches are supposed to be a lot better. I can't wait to see all the wailing come signing day.

(01-29-2013 12:30 PM)BobL Wrote:  

(01-29-2013 09:36 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  Every year people look at these stupid ratings and worry that we are going down the drain. We are never at the top when it comes to recruiting - per the infallible rating services. However, the proof is in the pudding. Not counting our injury-riddled year, we have had excellent teams for a decade. Oh, and we did pretty well without a stand-out QB. Our NFL-caliber RBs took their place in carrying the team.

The worst thing you can do is to read and believe these ratings sites. They look at some statistics, and that's it. They do not know what is in a kid's heart and mind. But, our coaches do.

I think what would be more telling is if scout/rivals went back and re-rated recruits after they have finished their college days.

Some 2 star recruits that no one thought anything of:

Michael Turner
Doug Free
Garrett Wolfe
Jake Nordin
Larry English
Chandler Harnish
Pat Schiller
Nathan Plamer
Scott Wedige
Jordan Lynch
Martel Moore
Perez Ashford

I know there are many i am missing...and lets not forget some of the preferred walkons that starred at NIU..Chad Spann comes to mind right away.


Some 3 stars that were highly touted..

Andre Brown
Britt Davis
Orlando Moore

I am sure there are more I am missing here as well.

How many recruiting duds compared to gems does Alabama have?
They have shown that top recruits with top coaching means a Number 1 team. Every rule has an exception line ND under Weiss.
Star recruits are harder to keep in your program.

Are we getting the talent to play against Florida State?

Here is a list of all of our Rivals 3* kids...over half of them will be on the team this upcoming season.

Videl Nelson
Chris Smith (JuCo)

Mycial Allen
Charlie Miller
Mike Cotton
Andrew Ness
A.J. Sebastiano
Jamal Womble (JuCo)
Jasmin Hopkins (JuCo)
Jamaal Bass
Mike Hellams
Anthony Wells

Corey Winfield
Ken Bishop (JuCo)
Michael Ippolito
Scott Taylor
Matt Williams
Mario Jones
Perez Ford
Jason Meehan
Devonte Majors
Mason Fuller
Frank Boenzi
Da'Ron Brown
Greg Barksdale
Cameron Stingily
Dechane Durante
AJ Hill
Panan Tense
Justin Anderson
Melvin Rice Jr
Orlando Moore
Phillip Brown
Britt Davis
Andre Brown

(01-29-2013 12:34 PM)leguptopee Wrote:  

(01-29-2013 11:08 AM)niufb83 Wrote:  

(01-29-2013 10:31 AM)DogTracks Wrote:  Do these sites ever discuss their methodology?

All we ever see is a star rating, some stats and some measurables and a video clip or two.

I read some baseball prospect writing and even when they're writing up amateur talent they're relying on first hand observations and a ton of dialog with scouts.

Unless these sites are doing their rating heavily influenced by contacts on staffs at all levels of program (guys who are professional talent evaluators) they aren't doing much more than voodoo. And if they are doing that, they need to start showing their work.

I understand all of the concerns with recruting services rankings, but these are two sites that College Coaches to pay attention to when evealuating and recruting. Being a high school coach, these do matter, and Schools offer scholarships to kids wihtout even seeing much of them, especially if they are rated high on Scout or rivals. I have 1st hand knowledge of this.
Also, last season Rivals recruiting rankings had Alabama #1, Florida#3. Ohio State #4, Stanford #5, Florida State #8. To say they are not credible would not be the truth. they evaluate on a lot of things , and certainly some kids get overlooked, but they also are dead on with others.

Your statement that coaches pay attention to these sites when recruiting and evaluating a player is not really accurate.
Most coaches I know view volumes of tape, attend camps out the ying yang and have connections all over the country....
I think a dozen coaches on a football team put more stock in what they personally come to know and see, than in a site hangin stars on a website....

I can tell you for fact, that many Big Time institiutions do send offers out based on scouting services. THey can't possibly evaluate every kid in America. They gamble in doing this , but they also want to tout to other recruits that they have a "highly ranked" class coming in. There isnt a coach in the country that does not log on to Scout or Rivals. I can assure you of that.

(01-29-2013 12:42 PM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  Here is a list of all of our Rivals 3* kids...over half of them will be on the team this upcoming season.

Videl Nelson
Chris Smith (JuCo)

Mycial Allen
Charlie Miller
Mike Cotton
Andrew Ness
A.J. Sebastiano
Jamal Womble (JuCo)
Jasmin Hopkins (JuCo)
Jamaal Bass
Mike Hellams
Anthony Wells

Corey Winfield
Ken Bishop (JuCo)
Michael Ippolito
Scott Taylor
Matt Williams
Mario Jones
Perez Ford
Jason Meehan
Devonte Majors
Mason Fuller
Frank Boenzi
Da'Ron Brown
Greg Barksdale
Cameron Stingily
Dechane Durante
AJ Hill
Panan Tense
Justin Anderson
Melvin Rice Jr
Orlando Moore
Phillip Brown
Britt Davis
Andre Brown

Good post.
What about the OL position, any recruits to fill in our recent loss?
Would it not be wonderful to get recruits with the size and speed to play against Florida State?

(01-29-2013 12:46 PM)niufb83 Wrote:  

(01-29-2013 12:34 PM)leguptopee Wrote:  

(01-29-2013 11:08 AM)niufb83 Wrote:  

(01-29-2013 10:31 AM)DogTracks Wrote:  Do these sites ever discuss their methodology?

All we ever see is a star rating, some stats and some measurables and a video clip or two.

I read some baseball prospect writing and even when they're writing up amateur talent they're relying on first hand observations and a ton of dialog with scouts.

Unless these sites are doing their rating heavily influenced by contacts on staffs at all levels of program (guys who are professional talent evaluators) they aren't doing much more than voodoo. And if they are doing that, they need to start showing their work.

I understand all of the concerns with recruting services rankings, but these are two sites that College Coaches to pay attention to when evealuating and recruting. Being a high school coach, these do matter, and Schools offer scholarships to kids wihtout even seeing much of them, especially if they are rated high on Scout or rivals. I have 1st hand knowledge of this.
Also, last season Rivals recruiting rankings had Alabama #1, Florida#3. Ohio State #4, Stanford #5, Florida State #8. To say they are not credible would not be the truth. they evaluate on a lot of things , and certainly some kids get overlooked, but they also are dead on with others.

Your statement that coaches pay attention to these sites when recruiting and evaluating a player is not really accurate.
Most coaches I know view volumes of tape, attend camps out the ying yang and have connections all over the country....
I think a dozen coaches on a football team put more stock in what they personally come to know and see, than in a site hangin stars on a website....

I can tell you for fact, that many Big Time institiutions do send offers out based on scouting services. THey can't possibly evaluate every kid in America. They gamble in doing this , but they also want to tout to other recruits that they have a "highly ranked" class coming in. There isnt a coach in the country that does not log on to Scout or Rivals. I can assure you of that.

+1

(01-29-2013 12:46 PM)sterling1man Wrote:  Good post.
What about the OL position, any recruits to fill in our recent loss?
Would it not be wonderful to get recruits with the size and speed to play against Florida State?

I would think that all of the ACC and BE would be going after those kids.

How about we focus on being TOTALLY dominant in the MAC?