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axeme Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Bracketbusters
Maybe we could get a separate thread to debate which 3rd place football program is better?
02-04-2013 04:32 AM
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Post: #62
RE: Bracketbusters
(02-03-2013 06:24 PM)utpotts Wrote:  
(02-03-2013 05:58 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  We are currently behind the WAC, Sun Belt, MAAC, and OVC in conference RPI and our top team, Akron, has a SOS of 183. NIU has a better SOS at 157. No way the MAC gets two teams in the tournament under any scenario. I really want to know when Akron is going to start playing a better schedule and winning more OOC. It is the same thing with them every year, weak OOC showing and then they load up on MAC wins.

Dambrot is no different than Frank Solich, a giant pansy when it comes to scheduling.

Do you do anything other than rip on scheduling? And you're not even correct.
02-04-2013 09:47 AM
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uakronkid Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Bracketbusters
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketbal...inic-artis

Quote:1. Akron coach Keith Dambrot said Saturday he was willing to switch and play on the road instead of being a home team in BracketBusters Feb. 22 or 23 in order to get a better game. Dambrot was turned down Sunday by the MAC office and the Zips will be a home team when the BracketBusters pairings will be announced Monday at 6:30 p.m. ET on ESPNU. Home/road designations have been predetermined. The problem is the better teams are at home -- having Akron possibly facing a lesser opponent, especially after the Zips beat Ohio and remain undefeated in the conference. This is the last year of BracketBusters but the teams will return the game in a nonconference matchup in 2014.

Way to look out for the best interests of your members, MAC. :muttering:
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2013 01:10 PM by uakronkid.)
02-04-2013 01:10 PM
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EA3 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Bracketbusters
(02-04-2013 01:10 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketbal...inic-artis

Quote:1. Akron coach Keith Dambrot said Saturday he was willing to switch and play on the road instead of being a home team in BracketBusters Feb. 22 or 23 in order to get a better game. Dambrot was turned down Sunday by the MAC office and the Zips will be a home team when the BracketBusters pairings will be announced Monday at 6:30 p.m. ET on ESPNU. Home/road designations have been predetermined. The problem is the better teams are at home -- having Akron possibly facing a lesser opponent, especially after the Zips beat Ohio and remain undefeated in the conference. This is the last year of BracketBusters but the teams will return the game in a nonconference matchup in 2014.

Way to look out for the best interests of your members, MAC. :muttering:

One could argue very successfully that Akron put themselves in this spot.

1. Akron's non conference schedule was loaded with home games. RPI rewards teams when they win on the road. Dambrot knows this. Akron scheduled and bought home games despite this knowledge. The Zips are in a spot where they need a quality road win to boost their RPI when in fact, they had complete control over that when they crafted their schedule. There are positives and negatives to both scheduling philosophies...gotta live with both.

2. If Akron's athletic office didn't have a ridiculous clerical error, thus making Treadwell and Harney ineligible for the loss at Coastal Carolina by 4 in OT, and the loss in Puerto Rico against OK St by 4 in OT a real issue. This conversation isn't taking place if Akron has 2 losses.


While I think it's great that Dambrot is looking out for his team and doing everything he can to help them get an at large bid IF needed...it's really hard to feel sympathy for him and the Zips when they had complete control over both issues outlined above. Hawkins specifically schedules WMU on the road in the non conference schedule because he knows it helps with RPI. We went to the NIT in 2003 and again in 2005, Hawkins was an assistant the first time, HC the second. It's likely that RPI had a lot to do with WMU getting into the NIT and a decent seeding with a home game in 2005.

If you buy non conference home games...you have little room for error. This is especially true in the MAC where we are experiencing a very weak year, more so than normal.
02-04-2013 02:07 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Bracketbusters
(02-04-2013 02:07 PM)EA3 Wrote:  
(02-04-2013 01:10 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketbal...inic-artis

Quote:1. Akron coach Keith Dambrot said Saturday he was willing to switch and play on the road instead of being a home team in BracketBusters Feb. 22 or 23 in order to get a better game. Dambrot was turned down Sunday by the MAC office and the Zips will be a home team when the BracketBusters pairings will be announced Monday at 6:30 p.m. ET on ESPNU. Home/road designations have been predetermined. The problem is the better teams are at home -- having Akron possibly facing a lesser opponent, especially after the Zips beat Ohio and remain undefeated in the conference. This is the last year of BracketBusters but the teams will return the game in a nonconference matchup in 2014.

Way to look out for the best interests of your members, MAC. :muttering:

One could argue very successfully that Akron put themselves in this spot.

1. Akron's non conference schedule was loaded with home games. RPI rewards teams when they win on the road. Dambrot knows this. Akron scheduled and bought home games despite this knowledge. The Zips are in a spot where they need a quality road win to boost their RPI when in fact, they had complete control over that when they crafted their schedule. There are positives and negatives to both scheduling philosophies...gotta live with both.

2. If Akron's athletic office didn't have a ridiculous clerical error, thus making Treadwell and Harney ineligible for the loss at Coastal Carolina by 4 in OT, and the loss in Puerto Rico against OK St by 4 in OT a real issue. This conversation isn't taking place if Akron has 2 losses.


While I think it's great that Dambrot is looking out for his team and doing everything he can to help them get an at large bid IF needed...it's really hard to feel sympathy for him and the Zips when they had complete control over both issues outlined above.

Completely unrelated issues. MAC isn't helping itself here. Period.

You want to criticize bureaucratic foolishness at Akron? Be my guest. But don't mix up the two. Akron's mistake doesn't justify the MAC Office's.
02-04-2013 02:12 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Bracketbusters
(02-04-2013 02:07 PM)EA3 Wrote:  
(02-04-2013 01:10 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketbal...inic-artis

Quote:1. Akron coach Keith Dambrot said Saturday he was willing to switch and play on the road instead of being a home team in BracketBusters Feb. 22 or 23 in order to get a better game. Dambrot was turned down Sunday by the MAC office and the Zips will be a home team when the BracketBusters pairings will be announced Monday at 6:30 p.m. ET on ESPNU. Home/road designations have been predetermined. The problem is the better teams are at home -- having Akron possibly facing a lesser opponent, especially after the Zips beat Ohio and remain undefeated in the conference. This is the last year of BracketBusters but the teams will return the game in a nonconference matchup in 2014.

Way to look out for the best interests of your members, MAC. :muttering:

One could argue very successfully that Akron put themselves in this spot.

1. Akron's non conference schedule was loaded with home games. RPI rewards teams when they win on the road. Dambrot knows this. Akron scheduled and bought home games despite this knowledge. The Zips are in a spot where they need a quality road win to boost their RPI when in fact, they had complete control over that when they crafted their schedule. There are positives and negatives to both scheduling philosophies...gotta live with both.

2. If Akron's athletic office didn't have a ridiculous clerical error, thus making Treadwell and Harney ineligible for the loss at Coastal Carolina by 4 in OT, and the loss in Puerto Rico against OK St by 4 in OT a real issue. This conversation isn't taking place if Akron has 2 losses.


While I think it's great that Dambrot is looking out for his team and doing everything he can to help them get an at large bid IF needed...it's really hard to feel sympathy for him and the Zips when they had complete control over both issues outlined above.

Completely unrelated issues. MAC isn't helping itself here. Period.

You want to criticize bureaucratic foolishness at Akron? Be my guest. But don't mix up the two. Akron's mistake doesn't justify the MAC Office's.
02-04-2013 02:12 PM
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EA3 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Bracketbusters
I said nothing about the MAC office.

I said "it's really hard to feel sympathy for him and the Zips when they had complete control..."

Would I like to know WHY the MAC office turned down Dambrot's request? Absolutely. Judging the decision with knowing why it was made is foolish IMO.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2013 02:16 PM by EA3.)
02-04-2013 02:16 PM
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HuskieTap22 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Bracketbusters
Considering this is the last year for the Bracketbusters, I would tend to agree that the MAC office should not care about whether Akron plays on the road or home.

Flip side though maybe the MAC office is taking a stand hoping Akron learns from this and plays a tougher OOC slate in the coming years. Everyone wants to see the MAC impove in hoops and the league office should not be bailing teams out for crafting lightweight schedules.

This league office can only do so some much and really if the MAC is every going to regain respectability in hoops then each of the individual programs need to figure it out and make the necessary commitment.
02-04-2013 02:21 PM
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ksu sucks Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Bracketbusters
In regards to Akron's "lightweight" schedule, I will quote what has already been posted above:

(02-03-2013 06:18 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  Projected non-conference SOS for MAC teams (according to RPIforecast.com):

57 Akron
65 Eastern Michigan
123 Buffalo
162 Kent State
166 Miami
181 Western Michigan
185 Central Michigan
220 Ohio
224 Bowling Green
255 Toledo
269 Ball State
272 Northern Illinois

Although I do agree that Akron would be wise to start scheduling tougher away games and less creampuffs at home. I'd rather watch Akron play St Mary's on ESPN3 than see us beat Texas Southern by 30 at the JAR.

Regardless, it should still be emphasized that Dambrot did a good job with this years schedule. If we win a couple of those early season games, this is a very different discussion.
02-04-2013 02:41 PM
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Post: #70
RE: Bracketbusters
(02-03-2013 06:24 PM)utpotts Wrote:  
(02-03-2013 05:58 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  We are currently behind the WAC, Sun Belt, MAAC, and OVC in conference RPI and our top team, Akron, has a SOS of 183. NIU has a better SOS at 157. No way the MAC gets two teams in the tournament under any scenario. I really want to know when Akron is going to start playing a better schedule and winning more OOC. It is the same thing with them every year, weak OOC showing and then they load up on MAC wins.

Dambrot is no different than Frank Solich, a giant pansy when it comes to scheduling.
Amazing, absolutely amazing. Not to rank on you, HuskieTap22, have you considered that at 8-0 all eight of the MAC teams Akron has defeated so far this season have RPI's higher than the Zips? It is the nature of the beast. Those wins bend the SOS higher. NIU, on the other hand, is looking up at lower RPIs due to their win/loss record. Skews the SOS stat the other way.

As for, utpotts, why not check the schedule BEFORE you run your mouth?

Akron has played OOC games against Penn State (win), Oklahoma State (ot loss), UNC-Ashville (win), Creighton (loss), Detroit (loss). None of these games were played in Akron. Oh, the Zips did play neighborhood rival, Cleveland State (win) at home.

If memory (and checking the record) serves me correct, the Zips defeated the Rockets in Savage Arena/hall/gym. I will make you the same offer that Zips coaches make to anyone who runs their mouth that they could do a better job of scheduling OOC opponents for Akron. YOU make the hundreds of telephone calls, e-mails, etc. to get those big time opponents to play Akron home-n-home or even two-4-one. They wont play in the JAR. Not because of its size or the fans, but because Akron wins 85% of their home games. Coaches hate to lose. It costs them their jobs.

It is pretty easy to be a butthead; and you, sir, or is it madam? are certainly one. I agree with a number of posters that say support your team AND your conference.
02-04-2013 03:00 PM
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EA3 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Bracketbusters
(02-04-2013 02:41 PM)ksu sucks Wrote:  In regards to Akron's "lightweight" schedule, I will quote what has already been posted above:

(02-03-2013 06:18 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  Projected non-conference SOS for MAC teams (according to RPIforecast.com):

57 Akron
65 Eastern Michigan
123 Buffalo
162 Kent State
166 Miami
181 Western Michigan
185 Central Michigan
220 Ohio
224 Bowling Green
255 Toledo
269 Ball State
272 Northern Illinois

Although I do agree that Akron would be wise to start scheduling tougher away games and less creampuffs at home. I'd rather watch Akron play St Mary's on ESPN3 than see us beat Texas Southern by 30 at the JAR.

Regardless, it should still be emphasized that Dambrot did a good job with this years schedule. If we win a couple of those early season games, this is a very different discussion.

Akron's RPI is a completely different than the non conference SOS rankings.


Here is Ken Pom's non conference schedule rankings:

60 Buffalo
69 EMU
108 WMU
124 CMU
126 Akron
136 Miami
175 Toledo
176 NIU
206 BGSU
237 Kent
295 Ohio
302 Ball St

Akron didn't schedule a ridiculous amount of cupcakes (cough cough Ohio and Ball St)...but they COULD have scheduled differently to avoid this conundrum. Better yet, someone in their admin office could have done their job properly and avoided the Harney and Treadwell suspensions at the beginning of the year...which likely cost them two games they lost by 4 points each in OT.
02-04-2013 03:01 PM
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The Optimist Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Bracketbusters
The MAC offices botched bracketbusters? Color me shocked.
02-04-2013 03:08 PM
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EA3 Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Bracketbusters
(02-04-2013 03:08 PM)The Optimist Wrote:  The MAC offices botched bracketbusters? Color me shocked.

How did they botch it?
02-04-2013 03:11 PM
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The Optimist Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Bracketbusters
(02-04-2013 03:11 PM)EA3 Wrote:  
(02-04-2013 03:08 PM)The Optimist Wrote:  The MAC offices botched bracketbusters? Color me shocked.

How did they botch it?

The Akron decision...

Now if it comes out that ESPN turned down Akron and not the MAC offices, I will move on from blaming the MAC offices.
02-04-2013 03:32 PM
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EA3 Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Bracketbusters
(02-04-2013 03:32 PM)The Optimist Wrote:  
(02-04-2013 03:11 PM)EA3 Wrote:  
(02-04-2013 03:08 PM)The Optimist Wrote:  The MAC offices botched bracketbusters? Color me shocked.

How did they botch it?

The Akron decision...

Now if it comes out that ESPN turned down Akron and not the MAC offices, I will move on from blaming the MAC offices.

Unless you know the reason WHY they turned down the request...it's pretty tough to make that call don't you think?
02-04-2013 04:06 PM
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EA3 Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Bracketbusters
As I think about this issue more and more...here is my problem...

“We thought if we could win a road game it would help our RPI a little bit,” Dambrot said this afternoon.

He had 9 non conference games that he and Akron could craft to their liking. They were locked into 3 neutral court games in Puerto Rico. In those 9 games, they chose to play @Creighton, @Detroit and @Coastal Carolina. The other 6 are home games, and a few are likely bought. Akron returned a stud team this year...yet they chose their path in the non conference. They subsequently blew two games in OT after two starters were suspended because of a dumb clerical error that should have been avoided.

They are in NEED of a road win to boost their RPI because of the path they've chosen and their performance on the court. There is no way around this.

That being said, I desperately want the MAC to return to a 2 bid league. I would be fine and likely happy if this did go thru and it worked out in the MAC's favor. But unless I know WHY the league turned down the request, I'm not going to judge.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2013 04:12 PM by EA3.)
02-04-2013 04:12 PM
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HuskieTap22 Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Bracketbusters
(02-04-2013 03:00 PM)ratfink Wrote:  
(02-03-2013 06:24 PM)utpotts Wrote:  
(02-03-2013 05:58 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  
Amazing, absolutely amazing. Not to rank on you, HuskieTap22, have you considered that at 8-0 all eight of the MAC teams Akron has defeated so far this season have RPI's higher than the Zips? It is the nature of the beast. Those wins bend the SOS higher. NIU, on the other hand, is looking up at lower RPIs due to their win/loss record. Skews the SOS stat the other way.

I am not debating whether the MAC stinks in mens hoops or whether the amount of suckage that exists in this league from top to bottom is causing a drag on the RPI and SOS of the top teams. My point is that Akron has maybe one signature win, MTSU and a bad loss. I don't think beating a Sun Belt team as your defining win is enough to get you over the hump in an at large scenario. If they beat at least two out of Creighton, OSU and Detroit then maybe the case is stronger. Penn State has a losing record, that is a game an at large team is expected to win. Losing at Coastal Carolina hurts as well with no big wins to offset it.

I just don't see how Akron gets an at large. They just haven't done enough. The A-10 has 10 teams with sub 100 RPIs and sub 100 SOS and the MVC has four teams with sub 100 RPIs and sub 100 SOS. These are the teams Akron is up against for a spot on top of the power conferences for at large bids. I really don't see how they over come that. The resume just isn't there. You haven't played enough teams that matter and the few you did you lost to.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2013 04:34 PM by HuskieTap22.)
02-04-2013 04:33 PM
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Post: #78
RE: Bracketbusters
(02-04-2013 03:01 PM)EA3 Wrote:  Akron's RPI is a completely different than the non conference SOS rankings.
RPI forecast provides an SOS ranking. I'm assuming that's where Zach got his numbers.

(02-04-2013 03:01 PM)EA3 Wrote:  126 Akron

Could you provide a link for that? I'm having trouble finding those numbers.

(02-04-2013 03:01 PM)EA3 Wrote:  Akron didn't schedule a ridiculous amount of cupcakes (cough cough Ohio and Ball St)...but they COULD have scheduled differently to avoid this conundrum.

That's true, but if we took care of business earlier in the season we would be in much better shape. I think this years OOC schedule was good enough for at large consideration(if we won, of course).

(02-04-2013 03:01 PM)EA3 Wrote:  Better yet, someone in their admin office could have done their job properly and avoided the Harney and Treadwell suspensions at the beginning of the year...which likely cost them two games they lost by 4 points each in OT.

I've heard rumors that the suspensions were the result of the "anti-athletics" crowd within the University digging for trivial infractions which could hurt the team. Like any rumor, I'm not sure how true that is.

It's all "what if" at this point. There's nothing to do now but keep winning.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2013 04:39 PM by ksu sucks.)
02-04-2013 04:38 PM
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The Optimist Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Bracketbusters
(02-04-2013 04:06 PM)EA3 Wrote:  
(02-04-2013 03:32 PM)The Optimist Wrote:  
(02-04-2013 03:11 PM)EA3 Wrote:  
(02-04-2013 03:08 PM)The Optimist Wrote:  The MAC offices botched bracketbusters? Color me shocked.

How did they botch it?

The Akron decision...

Now if it comes out that ESPN turned down Akron and not the MAC offices, I will move on from blaming the MAC offices.

Unless you know the reason WHY they turned down the request...it's pretty tough to make that call don't you think?
If I knew I could expect a reason from the MAC, I would absolutely reserve judgement. Knowing the MAC, they will not be giving a reason at all. They will just avoid the issue or shrug it off.
If Akron is able to pull a top game at home, I'll come back and applaud the MAC for making the right call. I do not see that happening though, unfortunately.

The plus to all of this is with Ohio. I am excited about Ohio's prospects for this. Being on the away side along with our marketability due to our run last year really helps setup Ohio for (potentially) a great opponent.

If Ohio and Akron can both win against good opponents, this event could help us for once. I do not think the chances for an at-large this year are completely gone, although they aren't as high as I would hoping they would be at this point in the season back when the season started.
02-04-2013 04:39 PM
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Post: #80
RE: Bracketbusters
(02-04-2013 04:12 PM)EA3 Wrote:  They are in NEED of a road win to boost their RPI because of the path they've chosen and their performance on the court. There is no way around this.

Sorry but that's not the way I see it. They offered to switch because the home field is so much stronger than the road field in the Bracketbusters this year. They could very well end up with a crappy draw like Ohio did last year. If they were in the road field the Zips would be looking at drawing Wichita State, Belmont or St. Mary's. As it stands they are looking at a very lackluster matchup. They don't need a road win. They need a good opponent.
02-04-2013 04:41 PM
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