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Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
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HuskieTap22 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
(01-26-2013 10:38 AM)HuronDave Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 09:19 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 08:26 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  You use money to make more money. ISU would just be a waste of money.

ISU is a ridiculously horrible idea. We already have too many Michigan and Ohio teams, another Illinois team is just as redundant market-wise, grab a Delaware, Marshall, Missouri State, anyone that brings in a NEW market.

Those "too many" Ohio and Michigan schools are the backbone of the MAC, most of whom have been with the conference for several decades and never left and came back begging for re-entry. Yeah, we don't want any more of that stability in the MAC.

Let's not get overboard here. That is a bit extreme. So are you suggesting adding more Michigan and Ohio to increase stability. If you go that route I could see teams like Toledo and Ohio trying to punch a ticket out of the MAC.

Let's be honest, if the MAC started today from scratch rational thinking would say less Michigan and Ohio schools. The Michigan Ohio base has its pros and cons but there is no value to expanding in those areas beyond what we have today. New states / regions / markets is the answer. And no to Illinois State. If you guys in Ohio think that would create a rival for NIU you are nuts. We don't care about them at all. ISU would be a waste. Just because they have State in their name doesn't mean they add value. If you are playing that card then North Dakota State should be under consideration.
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2013 11:10 AM by HuskieTap22.)
01-26-2013 11:09 AM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
(01-26-2013 09:53 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(01-26-2013 07:39 AM)The Optimist Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 09:19 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 08:26 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  You use money to make more money. ISU would just be a waste of money.

ISU is a ridiculously horrible idea. We already have too many Michigan and Ohio teams, another Illinois team is just as redundant market-wise, grab a Delaware, Marshall, Missouri State, anyone that brings in a NEW market.

We have too many teams from Ohio and Michigan but Illinois has absolutely nothing to do with that. Another Illinois school balances the conference out if anything.. Two in a state is a nice number.

I completely understand why NIU fans would be against it.. You have a monopoly right now. Of course you want to keep that.

Illinois State would give NIU a true conference rival I'm not sure why they wouldn't be wanting that. Ask what NIU faculty thinks about adding ISU to the MAC.

If membership was only offered to residential campuses the MAC could have a different look.

MAC West: NIU, Illinois St, Ball St, WMU, CMU, EMU
MAC East: BG, Miami, Ohio, Kent St, Buffalo, Stony Brook

Part of me would like to see Toledo or Akron move on to CUSA to solve the too many Ohio school problem and open up spaces for other schools.

You would want to see Toledo leave and be replaced by an FCS school, just so we'd have 1 fewer school located in Ohio? 01-wingedeagle
01-26-2013 11:10 AM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
(01-25-2013 09:19 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 08:26 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  You use money to make more money. ISU would just be a waste of money.

ISU is a ridiculously horrible idea. We already have too many Michigan and Ohio teams, another Illinois team is just as redundant market-wise, grab a Delaware, Marshall, Missouri State, anyone that brings in a NEW market.

The question is though, would they bring in the market? We don't bring in the Chicago market. So what market would they really bring in?
01-26-2013 11:12 AM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
(01-26-2013 11:12 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 09:19 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 08:26 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  You use money to make more money. ISU would just be a waste of money.

ISU is a ridiculously horrible idea. We already have too many Michigan and Ohio teams, another Illinois team is just as redundant market-wise, grab a Delaware, Marshall, Missouri State, anyone that brings in a NEW market.

The question is though, would they bring in the market? We don't bring in the Chicago market. So what market would they really bring in?

It would help sell MAC football and basketball across Illinois to have the 2 best academic institutions outside of UofI in the same conference.
01-26-2013 11:33 AM
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HuskieTap22 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
(01-26-2013 11:33 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(01-26-2013 11:12 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 09:19 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 08:26 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  You use money to make more money. ISU would just be a waste of money.

ISU is a ridiculously horrible idea. We already have too many Michigan and Ohio teams, another Illinois team is just as redundant market-wise, grab a Delaware, Marshall, Missouri State, anyone that brings in a NEW market.

The question is though, would they bring in the market? We don't bring in the Chicago market. So what market would they really bring in?

It would help sell MAC football and basketball across Illinois to have the 2 best academic institutions outside of UofI in the same conference.

You are forgetting Northwestern. We already have all we are going to get from Illinois. ISU brings little. Delaware, JMU, etc. That is how we need to be thinking. Adding teams within a two hour drive of an existing program adds nothing.
01-26-2013 11:46 AM
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FMRocket Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
(01-26-2013 11:33 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(01-26-2013 11:12 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 09:19 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 08:26 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  You use money to make more money. ISU would just be a waste of money.

ISU is a ridiculously horrible idea. We already have too many Michigan and Ohio teams, another Illinois team is just as redundant market-wise, grab a Delaware, Marshall, Missouri State, anyone that brings in a NEW market.

The question is though, would they bring in the market? We don't bring in the Chicago market. So what market would they really bring in?

It would help sell MAC football and basketball across Illinois to have the 2 best academic institutions outside of UofI in the same conference.

I belive Northwestern is not to shabby when it comes to academics... Omitting them from your "2 best academic institutions outside of UofI in the same conference" statement is ludicrous...
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2013 11:47 AM by FMRocket.)
01-26-2013 11:47 AM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
(01-24-2013 07:28 PM)The Optimist Wrote:  
(01-24-2013 06:13 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-24-2013 05:49 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  
(01-24-2013 05:46 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  Talking about finding a 14th in premature until its been decided on who the Big East is taking.

The Big East is sitting at 10 memebers, 11 counting Navy (2015). Adding Tulsa will get the Big East to 11 in 2014, 12 in 2015.

Quote:In football, the Big East will have 10 teams for next season and 11 for 2014 and 12 for 2015. Aresco remains confident that the money for both sports will be “reasonable”.

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=4881

Then who does CUSA target as an expansion candidate and how big to do they go? They will have 16 in 2013 with Charlotte playing in the CUSA West division.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...e-done-yet

Screw the Big East. The MAC needs to take control of its own future. Make a move, don't wait for an outside party to determine your course of action.

+1. If we want to add somebody, do it.

Agreed. Whatever we want to do, get it done. Don't worry about other clowns.

I'm sorry we've got to wait to see what the Big East does.

The MAC cannot go out and bring WKU into the conference for example when Tulsa heading to the BE leads to an invite for WKU to CUSA.

What if the BE decides to add UMass FB-Only? Then the MAC will be back to 12 schools. Will the MAC take the attitude of addition by subtraction and feel the need to add at all?

CUSA could throw the MAC a surprise too by taking Akron which fits the CUSA prototype basketball oriented school with a shiny new football facility in a large media market (Cleveland-Akron).

Karl Benson is telling Georgia Southern the SBC needs to wait too. I think its well understood why the MAC has decided to wait an extra year before replacing Temple.

Quote:“The Sun Belt is the place we want to go. Ideally, the Sun Belt meets our geographical needs and meets our needs of what we’re trying to compete against. I think it’s the best fit for our university.”

Kleinlein says he has weekly conversations with Sun Belt commissioner Karl Benson, but the school presidents of the Sun Belt are waiting to see what unfolds — particularly in Conference USA and the Big East.

Seemingly, there is a domino effect. The Big East raids Conference USA to fill openings. Conference USA then fills its openings with Sun Belt teams.
http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=614966&page=2
01-26-2013 11:53 AM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
(01-26-2013 11:47 AM)FMRocket Wrote:  
(01-26-2013 11:33 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(01-26-2013 11:12 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 09:19 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 08:26 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  You use money to make more money. ISU would just be a waste of money.

ISU is a ridiculously horrible idea. We already have too many Michigan and Ohio teams, another Illinois team is just as redundant market-wise, grab a Delaware, Marshall, Missouri State, anyone that brings in a NEW market.

The question is though, would they bring in the market? We don't bring in the Chicago market. So what market would they really bring in?

It would help sell MAC football and basketball across Illinois to have the 2 best academic institutions outside of UofI in the same conference.

I belive Northwestern is not to shabby when it comes to academics... Omitting them from your "2 best academic institutions outside of UofI in the same conference" statement is ludicrous...

Northwestern is not a state school.

I'm talking about building interest across the state among the rank and file state school graduate. I don't think Nortwestern is much of a target across rural Illinois anymore than the University of Chicago or DePaul.
01-26-2013 11:57 AM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
(01-26-2013 11:46 AM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  
(01-26-2013 11:33 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(01-26-2013 11:12 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 09:19 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 08:26 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  You use money to make more money. ISU would just be a waste of money.

ISU is a ridiculously horrible idea. We already have too many Michigan and Ohio teams, another Illinois team is just as redundant market-wise, grab a Delaware, Marshall, Missouri State, anyone that brings in a NEW market.

The question is though, would they bring in the market? We don't bring in the Chicago market. So what market would they really bring in?

It would help sell MAC football and basketball across Illinois to have the 2 best academic institutions outside of UofI in the same conference.

You are forgetting Northwestern. We already have all we are going to get from Illinois. ISU brings little. Delaware, JMU, etc. That is how we need to be thinking. Adding teams within a two hour drive of an existing program adds nothing.

It saves on travel costs for NIU don't you agree to have an in-state team a few hours away?

Don't you think it would help NIU in basketball recruiting playing in a division against a strong Illinois State program?
01-26-2013 12:00 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
(01-26-2013 11:53 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(01-24-2013 07:28 PM)The Optimist Wrote:  
(01-24-2013 06:13 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-24-2013 05:49 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  
(01-24-2013 05:46 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  Talking about finding a 14th in premature until its been decided on who the Big East is taking.

The Big East is sitting at 10 memebers, 11 counting Navy (2015). Adding Tulsa will get the Big East to 11 in 2014, 12 in 2015.


Then who does CUSA target as an expansion candidate and how big to do they go? They will have 16 in 2013 with Charlotte playing in the CUSA West division.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...e-done-yet

Screw the Big East. The MAC needs to take control of its own future. Make a move, don't wait for an outside party to determine your course of action.

+1. If we want to add somebody, do it.

Agreed. Whatever we want to do, get it done. Don't worry about other clowns.

I'm sorry we've got to wait to see what the Big East does.

The MAC cannot go out and bring WKU into the conference for example when Tulsa heading to the BE leads to an invite for WKU to CUSA.

What if the BE decides to add UMass FB-Only? Then the MAC will be back to 12 schools. Will the MAC take the attitude of addition by subtraction and feel the need to add at all?

CUSA could throw the MAC a surprise too by taking Akron which fits the CUSA prototype basketball oriented school with a shiny new football facility in a large media market (Cleveland-Akron).

Karl Benson is telling Georgia Southern the SBC needs to wait too. I think its well understood why the MAC has decided to wait an extra year before replacing Temple.

Quote:“The Sun Belt is the place we want to go. Ideally, the Sun Belt meets our geographical needs and meets our needs of what we’re trying to compete against. I think it’s the best fit for our university.”

Kleinlein says he has weekly conversations with Sun Belt commissioner Karl Benson, but the school presidents of the Sun Belt are waiting to see what unfolds — particularly in Conference USA and the Big East.

Seemingly, there is a domino effect. The Big East raids Conference USA to fill openings. Conference USA then fills its openings with Sun Belt teams.
http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=614966&page=2

Given the MAC revenue structure, the upcoming reforms, and the rising strength of our football as a whole, I don't think any of our teams would go to the C-USA. Money wouldn't justify travel costs and lost rivalries, especially in a conference that is quickly becoming the new Sun Belt, although WKU might be vulnerable with MTSU over there. Still, I don't think a school will hop from one conference to a superior one, then make a lateral move after paying an exit fee for nothing.

All we need to do in the immediate future is give UMass an ultimatum in membership, and we'll move from there. If they say no, then let them expire and we'll be happy for only having to share the pot with 12 schools. If they say yes, we act quickly to grab (insert school) since we hold the upper hand.
01-26-2013 12:24 PM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
(01-26-2013 12:24 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  
(01-26-2013 11:53 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(01-24-2013 07:28 PM)The Optimist Wrote:  
(01-24-2013 06:13 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-24-2013 05:49 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  Screw the Big East. The MAC needs to take control of its own future. Make a move, don't wait for an outside party to determine your course of action.

+1. If we want to add somebody, do it.

Agreed. Whatever we want to do, get it done. Don't worry about other clowns.

I'm sorry we've got to wait to see what the Big East does.

The MAC cannot go out and bring WKU into the conference for example when Tulsa heading to the BE leads to an invite for WKU to CUSA.

What if the BE decides to add UMass FB-Only? Then the MAC will be back to 12 schools. Will the MAC take the attitude of addition by subtraction and feel the need to add at all?

CUSA could throw the MAC a surprise too by taking Akron which fits the CUSA prototype basketball oriented school with a shiny new football facility in a large media market (Cleveland-Akron).

Karl Benson is telling Georgia Southern the SBC needs to wait too. I think its well understood why the MAC has decided to wait an extra year before replacing Temple.

Quote:“The Sun Belt is the place we want to go. Ideally, the Sun Belt meets our geographical needs and meets our needs of what we’re trying to compete against. I think it’s the best fit for our university.”

Kleinlein says he has weekly conversations with Sun Belt commissioner Karl Benson, but the school presidents of the Sun Belt are waiting to see what unfolds — particularly in Conference USA and the Big East.

Seemingly, there is a domino effect. The Big East raids Conference USA to fill openings. Conference USA then fills its openings with Sun Belt teams.
http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=614966&page=2

Given the MAC revenue structure, the upcoming reforms, and the rising strength of our football as a whole, I don't think any of our teams would go to the C-USA. Money wouldn't justify travel costs and lost rivalries, especially in a conference that is quickly becoming the new Sun Belt, although WKU might be vulnerable with MTSU over there. Still, I don't think a school will hop from one conference to a superior one, then make a lateral move after paying an exit fee for nothing.

All we need to do in the immediate future is give UMass an ultimatum in membership, and we'll move from there. If they say no, then let them expire and we'll be happy for only having to share the pot with 12 schools. If they say yes, we act quickly to grab (insert school) since we hold the upper hand.

I could see where a program like Akron that has not had much success on the football field might be enticed to move to a stronger basketball conference that plays easier football.

I do think some separation is building in this conference as a few schools want to push investment.

Northern Illinois (football salaries)
Miami (hockey salaries)
Akron (football, basketball, soccer salaries)
Ohio (football, basketball salaries)
Buffalo (maybe by 2020)

Those are the schools where you see the investment. Most of the other schools in the MAC a perfectly content with where they are at and happy to just pay average MAC salaries.
01-26-2013 12:37 PM
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FMRocket Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
(01-26-2013 12:37 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(01-26-2013 12:24 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  
(01-26-2013 11:53 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(01-24-2013 07:28 PM)The Optimist Wrote:  
(01-24-2013 06:13 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  +1. If we want to add somebody, do it.

Agreed. Whatever we want to do, get it done. Don't worry about other clowns.

I'm sorry we've got to wait to see what the Big East does.

The MAC cannot go out and bring WKU into the conference for example when Tulsa heading to the BE leads to an invite for WKU to CUSA.

What if the BE decides to add UMass FB-Only? Then the MAC will be back to 12 schools. Will the MAC take the attitude of addition by subtraction and feel the need to add at all?

CUSA could throw the MAC a surprise too by taking Akron which fits the CUSA prototype basketball oriented school with a shiny new football facility in a large media market (Cleveland-Akron).

Karl Benson is telling Georgia Southern the SBC needs to wait too. I think its well understood why the MAC has decided to wait an extra year before replacing Temple.

Quote:“The Sun Belt is the place we want to go. Ideally, the Sun Belt meets our geographical needs and meets our needs of what we’re trying to compete against. I think it’s the best fit for our university.”

Kleinlein says he has weekly conversations with Sun Belt commissioner Karl Benson, but the school presidents of the Sun Belt are waiting to see what unfolds — particularly in Conference USA and the Big East.

Seemingly, there is a domino effect. The Big East raids Conference USA to fill openings. Conference USA then fills its openings with Sun Belt teams.
http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=614966&page=2

Given the MAC revenue structure, the upcoming reforms, and the rising strength of our football as a whole, I don't think any of our teams would go to the C-USA. Money wouldn't justify travel costs and lost rivalries, especially in a conference that is quickly becoming the new Sun Belt, although WKU might be vulnerable with MTSU over there. Still, I don't think a school will hop from one conference to a superior one, then make a lateral move after paying an exit fee for nothing.

All we need to do in the immediate future is give UMass an ultimatum in membership, and we'll move from there. If they say no, then let them expire and we'll be happy for only having to share the pot with 12 schools. If they say yes, we act quickly to grab (insert school) since we hold the upper hand.

I could see where a program like Akron that has not had much success on the football field might be enticed to move to a stronger basketball conference that plays easier football.

I do think some separation is building in this conference as a few schools want to push investment.

Northern Illinois (football salaries)
Miami (hockey salaries)
Akron (football, basketball, soccer salaries)
Ohio (football, basketball salaries)
Buffalo (maybe by 2020)

Those are the schools where you see the investment. Most of the other schools in the MAC a perfectly content with where they are at and happy to just pay average MAC salaries.

I'm pretty sure Toledo pays in the upper tier for MAC salaries... As far as investment is concerned, UT has dumped over 40 million into facility upgrades (Savage Arena renonovation/Fettermen IPF) in the last 5 years ... Another 15 million is slated for the Larimer football building expansion along with baseball and soccer upgrades at our Scott Park campus...
01-26-2013 12:52 PM
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Dukes09 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
(01-26-2013 11:12 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 09:19 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 08:26 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  You use money to make more money. ISU would just be a waste of money.

ISU is a ridiculously horrible idea. We already have too many Michigan and Ohio teams, another Illinois team is just as redundant market-wise, grab a Delaware, Marshall, Missouri State, anyone that brings in a NEW market.

The question is though, would they bring in the market? We don't bring in the Chicago market. So what market would they really bring in?
you hit the nail on the head and I've always rolled my eyes at this entire stupid markets argument. Unless you're a BCS team, you're not bringing jacksquat outside of your immediate 30-60 minutes of where your school is located. I'm sorry, you're not.

JMU has many alums in DC and Richmond, we have a presence, but we do not "bring it". Delaware is non-existent in philly coverage from what I've heard. They hold the state of Delaware, but that's about it.
This is why I think attendance is so important. It's proof of how many are showing up to your games and how "big of a deal" you are within your state. It's simple comparision, 22k>17k.
At the same time, you can only take attendance so seriously. Schools have been proven to lie, estimate, or list tickets sold/comped as "attendance", instead of physical attendance.
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2013 01:07 PM by Dukes09.)
01-26-2013 01:04 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
(01-26-2013 01:04 PM)Dukes09 Wrote:  
(01-26-2013 11:12 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 09:19 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 08:26 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  You use money to make more money. ISU would just be a waste of money.

ISU is a ridiculously horrible idea. We already have too many Michigan and Ohio teams, another Illinois team is just as redundant market-wise, grab a Delaware, Marshall, Missouri State, anyone that brings in a NEW market.

The question is though, would they bring in the market? We don't bring in the Chicago market. So what market would they really bring in?
you hit the nail on the head and I've always rolled my eyes at this entire stupid markets argument. Unless you're a BCS team, you're not bringing jacksquat outside of your immediate 30-60 minutes of where your school is located. I'm sorry, you're not.

JMU has many alums in DC and Richmond, we have a presence, but we do not "bring it". Delaware is non-existent in philly coverage from what I've heard. They hold the state of Delaware, but that's about it.
This is why I think attendance is so important. It's proof of how many are showing up to your games and how "big of a deal" you are within your state. It's simple comparision, 22k>17k.
At the same time, you can only take attendance so seriously. Schools have been proven to lie, estimate, or list tickets sold/comped as "attendance", instead of physical attendance.

Exactly, and ISU failed that this year, even with an FCS playoff run. Granted capacity was shrunk to 7,600 this year because of renovations, but they still only sold out twice.
01-26-2013 01:17 PM
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NIUfilmmaker Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
(01-26-2013 01:04 PM)Dukes09 Wrote:  
(01-26-2013 11:12 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 09:19 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  
(01-25-2013 08:26 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  You use money to make more money. ISU would just be a waste of money.

ISU is a ridiculously horrible idea. We already have too many Michigan and Ohio teams, another Illinois team is just as redundant market-wise, grab a Delaware, Marshall, Missouri State, anyone that brings in a NEW market.

The question is though, would they bring in the market? We don't bring in the Chicago market. So what market would they really bring in?
you hit the nail on the head and I've always rolled my eyes at this entire stupid markets argument. Unless you're a BCS team, you're not bringing jacksquat outside of your immediate 30-60 minutes of where your school is located. I'm sorry, you're not.

JMU has many alums in DC and Richmond, we have a presence, but we do not "bring it". Delaware is non-existent in philly coverage from what I've heard. They hold the state of Delaware, but that's about it.
This is why I think attendance is so important. It's proof of how many are showing up to your games and how "big of a deal" you are within your state. It's simple comparision, 22k>17k.
At the same time, you can only take attendance so seriously. Schools have been proven to lie, estimate, or list tickets sold/comped as "attendance", instead of physical attendance.

First of all Dukes-Whatever-Troll-of-the-Week, NIU IS 60 minutes from Chicago, and 15-45 minutes from anywhere else in Chicagoland...

Secondly, when most people speak of markets, they mean 1) whether or not the conference already has a "presence" in that media market. NIU gets solid coverage in the Chicago Tribune and Suntimes, and our games are mentioned on Chicago TV outlets, if not also aired on regional cable or Chicago market-ESPN. 2) "Market" also means locations vis-a-vis the TV markets, and weather or not a future conference network would have a reasonable chance of being included in local cable and dish line-ups. Market does not mean market domination, a test which many BCS schools would fail.

Since NIU already has the MAC in the Chicago area papers/media, and our area presence creates the reasonable argument for a potential MAC network being included in Chicago broadcast systems, "redundant" current FCS schools like ISU are MUCH less valuable to the MAC then those that would GROW the MAC media footprint, even those located in a smaller media market like a JMU, Delaware, Missouri State, etc..
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2013 01:44 PM by NIUfilmmaker.)
01-26-2013 01:24 PM
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Dukes09 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
I never said NIU wasn't present in the Chicago market... If you're within an hour's drive, you likely are. I've never been there and cannot possibly comment accurately on anything related to that. I'm sure it's dominated mainly by Illinois, then NIU may be coming in at second ahead of Northwestern with your recent success. I'm not sure there. No one rules over the professional teams, no one ever will.

I have no doubt that many very low end BCS school will even fail the "market domination" test, at least from a CFB perspective. Temple, Duke, Northwestern, Washington State, Kansas, Minnesota. Some of the worst BCS CFB teams out there. Hell, it looks like Iowa and Minnesota are having trouble taking recruits from FCS North Dakota State like they're supposed to. They have a stranglehold on their entire state.

I personally would just argue against Illinois State compared to other candidates simply because their 72nd FCS ranked attendance of 6,512 fans isn't impressing me.

It's tough for any non-BCS school that isn't within an hour of a major city to get media coverage in that market. That just seems to be how it is.
01-26-2013 01:52 PM
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MileHighBronco Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
I see the kids are at it playing fantasy conference alignment again. They just love that game. Isn't it cute?
01-26-2013 01:55 PM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
To say that 22K is better than 17K is only a mathematical accuracy, not an argument that has any meaning here. In the modern world of college football--which runs on TV ratings, not people in the stands--attendance only has meaning locally, not for the conferences. When you are talking how many people tune in, you'd better be talking in the 100K's. It's why attendance has not been a meaningful factor in the recent round of conference moves. It's all markets, like it or not.

Important issues for the MAC would include academics and general "fit" with the other schools in terms of investment in athletics, facilities, etc. Exceptions were made to bring in a city school, Temple, and UMAss was added to complement them, but I would imagine if the MAC is considering adding a school for all sports, it would be a school that fits the basic mold. There is already enough conjecture about whom those schools might be, but there is no one in the MAC offices giving a damn about which of those schools draws a few thousand fans more 6x a year when all MAC schools attendance numbers are in the bottom third of FBS. No schools the the MAC would consider would be in the top half of FBS, so it really doesn't matter.
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2013 02:36 PM by axeme.)
01-26-2013 02:34 PM
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Dukes09 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
I don't know how to find specific tv ratings numbers for recent jmu fb games, and from what I can tell, it's hard to find tv ratings outside of espn and the major networks. Maybe not and I just don't know.

however, if we did a correlational test, and you looked at well attended programs and then compared their tv ratings, we'd probably find well attended programs have good ratings, and poor attended programs have lower ratings. Isn't it safe to assume that, as a general trend?
01-26-2013 02:40 PM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Miami AD talks about MAC meeting and getting to even number of teams on Agenda
No, it really isn't, hence ECU's long struggle to leave CUSA. If attendance mattered, they would have been snapped up long ago and Tulane would be in the Sun Belt.
01-26-2013 03:53 PM
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