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Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
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memphis mania Offline
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Post: #1
Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
Here is a comparison of Pastner’s and Calipari’s first 3 years as Memphis head coach by using SOS, winning pct and RPI...

SOS/Winning pct

John Calipari
#68 sos/.605 winning pct (2000-2001: 23-15)
#128 sos/.763 winning pct (2001-2002: 29-9)
#77 sos/.767 winning pct (2002-2003: 23-7)

- average SOS 91
- average winning pct .711

Josh Pastner
#85 sos/.706 winning pct (2009-2010: 24-10)
#46 sos/.714 winning pct (2010-2011: 25-10)
#20 sos/.743 winning pct (2011-2012: 26-9)

- average SOS 50
- average winning pct .721

RPI

John Calipari
#80 (2000-2001)
#44 (2001-2002)
#30 (2002-2003)

- average RPI 51

Josh Pastner
#53 (2009-2010)
#28 (2010-2011)
#16 (2011-2012)

- average RPI 32
01-24-2013 01:29 PM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
Chris Lowery was 76-25 after three seasons at SIU, including two conference titles and a Sweet 16 appearance.

His last three years he went 36-57 and was fired.

Bruce Weber went 89-16 his first three years at Illinois....yada yada yada...he is now at Kansas State.
01-24-2013 01:33 PM
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Latilleon Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
And for our gaudy SOS and RPI ranking last year...

Who did we really beat?

Xavier and Tennessee-Knoxville?
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2013 01:34 PM by Latilleon.)
01-24-2013 01:34 PM
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memphis mania Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
I'm not making any points. Just showing stats to compare the two in their first 3 seasons.
01-24-2013 01:36 PM
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Tiger BJJ Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
Interesting ...but not exactly an apples to apples comparison of abilities.
01-24-2013 01:36 PM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
RPI is a joke for true "strength" rankings.

How do these fit your agenda?:

Sagarin SOS ratings:

Quote:2000-01: 49th (77.85)
2001-02: 85th (76.86)
2002-03: 106th (75.63)

Average of 80

2009-10: 138th (73.47)
2010-11: 103rd (74.70)
2011-12: 63rd (77.08)

Average of 101.3


or Kenpom.com:

Quote:2000-03

Memphis' SOS: 40 (non-conf 9)

Memphis' SOS: 155 (non-conf 21)

Memphis' SOS: 79 (non-conf 57)

Average: 91.33 (29)

2009-2012:

Memphis' SOS: 124 (non-conf 203)

Memphis' SOS: 104 (non-conf 233)

Memphis' SOS: 60 (non-conf 19)

Average: 96 (151.67)
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2013 11:43 PM by salukiblue.)
01-24-2013 01:36 PM
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memphis mania Offline
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RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
I do however think this puts to rest a popular belief that Calipari’s schedules were harder than Pastner's in their first three years.
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2013 01:40 PM by memphis mania.)
01-24-2013 01:38 PM
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boss man Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
It seems as though the Big East will now have all teams in it next season except Pitt and Syracuse, so the BB conference schedule will be substantially ramped up. The ESPN network and CBS will carry most of the conference games.

As many have said next year will tell the tale on Pastner. Year 5 in the saddle at MEMPHIS with all of HIS recruits playing in HIS system with HIS (with input from AD Bowen) OOC scheduling.

The TIGERS will play virtually the entire current Big East line up and participate in the Big East tournament at MSG in NYC.
01-24-2013 01:38 PM
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memphis mania Offline
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RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
(01-24-2013 01:36 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  RPI is a joke for true "strength" rankings.

How do these fit your agenda?:

Sagarin SOS ratings:

Quote:2000-01: 49th (77.85)
2001-02: 85th (76.86)
2002-03: 106th (75.63)

Average of 80

2009-10: 138th (73.47)
2010-11: 103rd (74.70)
2011-12: 63rd (77.08)

Average of 101.3


or Kenpom.com:

Quote:2000-03

Memphis' SOS: 40 (non-conf 9)

Memphis' SOS: 155 (non-conf 21)

Memphis' SOS: 79 (non-conf 57)

Average: 91.33 (29)

2009-2012:

Memphis' SOS: 124 (non-conf 203)

Memphis' SOS: 104 (non-conf 233)

Memphis' SOS: 60 (non-conf 19)

Average: 129.33 (151.67)

Just going by what the NCAA uses.
01-24-2013 01:39 PM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
Sagarin team ratings:

00-01: 51
01-02: 33
02-03: 26

average: 36.6

09-10: 59
10-11: 71
11-12: 18

average: 49.3
01-24-2013 01:43 PM
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salukiblue Offline
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RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
(01-24-2013 01:39 PM)memphis mania Wrote:  
(01-24-2013 01:36 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  RPI is a joke for true "strength" rankings.

How do these fit your agenda?:

Sagarin SOS ratings:

Quote:2000-01: 49th (77.85)
2001-02: 85th (76.86)
2002-03: 106th (75.63)

Average of 80

2009-10: 138th (73.47)
2010-11: 103rd (74.70)
2011-12: 63rd (77.08)

Average of 101.3


or Kenpom.com:

Quote:2000-03

Memphis' SOS: 40 (non-conf 9)

Memphis' SOS: 155 (non-conf 21)

Memphis' SOS: 79 (non-conf 57)

Average: 91.33 (29)

2009-2012:

Memphis' SOS: 124 (non-conf 203)

Memphis' SOS: 104 (non-conf 233)

Memphis' SOS: 60 (non-conf 19)

Average: 96 (151.67)

Just going by what the NCAA uses.

That's all well and good, but RPI doesn't prove the measure of a team, if getting to the truth is the ultimate point of the post.

You might as well just post "eye test" or "opinion about" those years and likely have a truer reflection of team rating/schedule than you would with RPI.
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2013 11:43 PM by salukiblue.)
01-24-2013 01:44 PM
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memphis mania Offline
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RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
(01-24-2013 01:43 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  Sagarin team ratings:

00-01: 51
01-02: 33
02-03: 26

average: 36.6

09-10: 59
10-11: 71
11-12: 18

average: 49.3

Pastner in his first 3 seasons has gotten his Memphis teams better in the eyes of the committee on Selection Sunday than Calipari did. In the end that's what matter when making the tournament. Would you rather have an RPI that could get you in the tourney, and a worse Pom or Sag rating or an RPI that could not get you in the tourney but with a better Sag or Pom rating?
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2013 01:49 PM by memphis mania.)
01-24-2013 01:46 PM
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btipton1 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
Interesting. I am a fan of these types of comparisons, especially when somebody else does the work to track down the data.

I'll go ahead and put out there the obvious falicy in the comparison....

John Calipari took over a team that just finished a 15-16 season playing for an interim coach who took over for another .500 winning percentage coach mired in a scandal for getting a little too sweet with the student body (to put it mildly).

Josh Pastner took over a team that just finished yet another 16-0 CUSA demolishion and sweet 16 appearance and was arguably at the door steps of joining the elite of elite programs in national name and brand recognition.

Yes, it is relevant that the cupboard was essentially robbed by Cal on his way out, but the brand recognition and recent success alone put a young Josh Pastner at a very distinct advantage in his first 3 years vs an NBA outcast John Calipari in his first 3.

(Note: I hate John Calipari and love Josh Pastner, just so we can get that out of the way.)
01-24-2013 01:47 PM
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TigerTimmy Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
It does not matter what the stats say. Some people refuse to give Josh Pastner credit for winning.
01-24-2013 01:47 PM
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Latilleon Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
(01-24-2013 01:38 PM)memphis mania Wrote:  I do however think this puts to rest a popular belief that Calipari’s schedules were harder than Pastner's in their first three years.

Cal's schedule in 2002-03 (Wagner year) was a joke.

But what you have to acknowledge is that the conference schedule the Tigers got those years were weighted towards the CUSA National (South) and that side of the conference sucked. The difference was at least we got an annual game against Cincy and Louisville. But we didn't play enough with the other quality basketball teams in the conference.

But the non-conference schedule included better teams in 2000-01/2002-03. More importantly, we won some notable games in Cal's first three years.

Cal's signature win his first three years was against Syracuse and Carmelo Anthony in Madison Square Garden. Josh Pastner has no signature win unless you want to say it's at Gonzaga in a down year or UTEP to go to the NCAA tournament. Or Arizona or Kansas skin of their teeth losses.
01-24-2013 01:51 PM
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Latilleon Offline
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RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
(01-24-2013 01:39 PM)memphis mania Wrote:  
(01-24-2013 01:36 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  RPI is a joke for true "strength" rankings.

How do these fit your agenda?:

Sagarin SOS ratings:

Quote:2000-01: 49th (77.85)
2001-02: 85th (76.86)
2002-03: 106th (75.63)

Average of 80

2009-10: 138th (73.47)
2010-11: 103rd (74.70)
2011-12: 63rd (77.08)

Average of 101.3


or Kenpom.com:

Quote:2000-03

Memphis' SOS: 40 (non-conf 9)

Memphis' SOS: 155 (non-conf 21)

Memphis' SOS: 79 (non-conf 57)

Average: 91.33 (29)

2009-2012:

Memphis' SOS: 124 (non-conf 203)

Memphis' SOS: 104 (non-conf 233)

Memphis' SOS: 60 (non-conf 19)

Average: 129.33 (151.67)

Just going by what the NCAA uses.

That's not all they use... Because why was the #16 team in RPI an #8 seed?

Math says we'd be the 4th fourth seed.
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2013 01:53 PM by Latilleon.)
01-24-2013 01:53 PM
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salukiblue Offline
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RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/memphis/


SRS ratings:

00-01: 13.24
01-02: 15.26
02-03: 13.23

average: 13.91

09-10: 11.74
10-11: 6.91
11-12: 16.86

average: 11.84

SOS ratings:

00-01: 7.63
01-02: 4.69
02-03: 5.27

average: 5.86

09-10: 3.65
10-11: 3.14
11-12: 5.26

average: 4.02

*SRS ▾ -- Simple Rating System; a rating that takes into account average point differential and strength of schedule. The rating is denominated in points above/below average, where zero is average. Non-Division I games are excluded from the ratings.

*SOS -- Strength of Schedule; a rating of strength of schedule. The rating is denominated in points above/below average, where zero is average. Non-Division I games are excluded from the ratings.
01-24-2013 01:55 PM
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hongkongtiger Offline
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RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
Thanks for all the great information. I do find it very interesting so many on this board continue to measure Coach Pastner's success as a coach by comparing him to the most polarizing coach in Tiger history.
01-24-2013 01:55 PM
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BigTigerMike Offline
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RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
Is this a bait thread?
01-24-2013 01:56 PM
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RE: Calipari and Pastner's first 3 years compared using SOS, Winning pct and RPI...
(01-24-2013 01:55 PM)hongkongtiger Wrote:  Thanks for all the great information. I do find it very interesting so many on this board continue to measure Coach Pastner's success as a coach by comparing him to the most polarizing coach in Tiger history.

This
01-24-2013 02:01 PM
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