(01-25-2013 08:39 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(01-24-2013 06:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  How often would it be acceptable to play SLU/Dayton?

As often as GU, PC, VU, SJU and SHU play them.

So are you saying 10 teams only? How else is that supposed to work? I guess not protecting any home-and-homes and just rotating everything would work. Do you want that?

(01-24-2013 06:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Traveling to the east teams 2 years out of 3, and hosting them 2 years out of 3 isn't good enough?

As for travel, MU and DePaul traveled as basketball independents for decades. The MU/DU non-revenue sports were going to Alabama in the GMC and North Carolina, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas in CUSA. MU and DU travel in the BE now without issue. It seems travel is more of an issue with the eastern schools than MU or DU.

If MU's administration (not athletic department) has a choice, the more time spent out east, the better. Don't limit your most visible asset to the midwest if you can help it. SLU chose the A-10 over the MVC in part because the administration wanted SLU to be east instead of midwest. Can't speak for DU, but I wouldn't be surprised if the answer was similar.

(01-25-2013 08:54 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 08:39 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(01-24-2013 06:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  How often would it be acceptable to play SLU/Dayton?

As often as GU, PC, VU, SJU and SHU play them.

So are you saying 10 teams only? How else is that supposed to work? I guess not protecting any home-and-homes and just rotating everything would work. Do you want that?

I prefer 10 teams only. However, if 12 is required, then I prefer limiting the protected home-homes to no more than 1. No divisions and no geographic scheduling.

(01-25-2013 09:01 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 08:54 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 08:39 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(01-24-2013 06:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  How often would it be acceptable to play SLU/Dayton?

As often as GU, PC, VU, SJU and SHU play them.

So are you saying 10 teams only? How else is that supposed to work? I guess not protecting any home-and-homes and just rotating everything would work. Do you want that?

I prefer 10 teams only. However, if 12 is required, then I prefer limiting the protected home-homes to no more than 1. No divisions and no geographic scheduling.

just don't see that being realistic. I mean, I don't see Georgetown willing to not play St John's 2x but playing Creighton 2x, while Marquette gets to play St John's 2x and Creigton 1x. It's just not realistic at all. And, don't give me what the 16 team conference is like- that's a totally different animal, and you know it.

(01-25-2013 08:58 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(01-24-2013 06:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Traveling to the east teams 2 years out of 3, and hosting them 2 years out of 3 isn't good enough?

As for travel, MU and DePaul traveled as basketball independents for decades.

I'm not saying that you don't want to go east--I'm saying that, even with divisions, if you figure an 18-game schedule, you're almost at the point of home-and-homes with everybody. You're in MSG and Washington and Philadelphia 2 years out of 3. Marquette gets a recruit from Jersey, mom has say 3 road games at Seton Hall, 3 at Villanova and 2 at St Johns.

Quote:It seems travel is more of an issue with the eastern schools than MU or DU.

I don't think travel is an issue for Big East or A-10 teams.

Quote:If MU's administration (not athletic department) has a choice, the more time spent out east, the better. Don't limit your most visible asset to the midwest if you can help it.

I'm making that case that, even using divisions to simplify scheduling, divisions aren't limiting Marquette's eastern presence that much. Of your 18 league games, you'd have 8 games against eastern teams and 10 against midwestern teams. You'd have 2 home-and-homes with east coast teams, plus 2 east coast road games. That's four trips to the six east coast teams and five trips to the five other midwest teams. It's not like you're one game every other year at MSG or Verizon.

Especially if the divisions don't exist in the standings.

(01-25-2013 09:51 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 08:58 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(01-24-2013 06:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Traveling to the east teams 2 years out of 3, and hosting them 2 years out of 3 isn't good enough?

As for travel, MU and DePaul traveled as basketball independents for decades.

I'm not saying that you don't want to go east--I'm saying that, even with divisions, if you figure an 18-game schedule, you're almost at the point of home-and-homes with everybody. You're in MSG and Washington and Philadelphia 2 years out of 3. Marquette gets a recruit from Jersey, mom has say 3 road games at Seton Hall, 3 at Villanova and 2 at St Johns.

Quote:It seems travel is more of an issue with the eastern schools than MU or DU.

I don't think travel is an issue for Big East or A-10 teams.

Quote:If MU's administration (not athletic department) has a choice, the more time spent out east, the better. Don't limit your most visible asset to the midwest if you can help it.

I'm making that case that, even using divisions to simplify scheduling, divisions aren't limiting Marquette's eastern presence that much. Of your 18 league games, you'd have 8 games against eastern teams and 10 against midwestern teams. You'd have 2 home-and-homes with east coast teams, plus 2 east coast road games. That's four trips to the six east coast teams and five trips to the five other midwest teams. It's not like you're one game every other year at MSG or Verizon.

Especially if the divisions don't exist in the standings.

I'll wager that part of the TV deal will include Fox being able to have say on the schedule so they get to make as many marquee matchups a year as they want. I would doubt it would be the same set schedule every year - maybe one guaranteed home and home with a designated "rival" so that a Marquette and DePaul play twice a year and same thing with Georgetown and Villanova.

Anyone have an opinion on this talk of ESPN and the Big East coming to an accord for one more year.

I'd have to think that Fox would have a lot of incentive to see that not happen given they are launching not only Fox Sports 1 but Fox Sports 2 and the very teams that were to be shown on the two networks+ would be on the channel of the competition that they launched the sites to go against.

(01-25-2013 09:28 AM)stever20 Wrote:  just don't see that being realistic. I mean, I don't see Georgetown willing to not play St John's 2x but playing Creighton 2x, while Marquette gets to play St John's 2x and Creigton 1x. It's just not realistic at all. And, don't give me what the 16 team conference is like- that's a totally different animal, and you know it.

Then keep it at 10. If you want Creighton/SLU/Dayton, then be willing to play them twice as often as you require MU to. Don't say you want Creighton and follow up with a "but you play them twice, not us" attitude. You should only add teams that you are willing to see twice on your own schedule.

but bottom line, geography does matter. You are closer than Georgetown is to St Louis for example. Why shouldn't you play them more often?

I think this is why Creighton to me is not a lead pipe lock. They are a pretty good outlier location wise. I mean, how far are they from even St Louis or DePaul?

(01-25-2013 09:28 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 09:01 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 08:54 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 08:39 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(01-24-2013 06:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  How often would it be acceptable to play SLU/Dayton?

As often as GU, PC, VU, SJU and SHU play them.

So are you saying 10 teams only? How else is that supposed to work? I guess not protecting any home-and-homes and just rotating everything would work. Do you want that?

I prefer 10 teams only. However, if 12 is required, then I prefer limiting the protected home-homes to no more than 1. No divisions and no geographic scheduling.

just don't see that being realistic. I mean, I don't see Georgetown willing to not play St John's 2x but playing Creighton 2x, while Marquette gets to play St John's 2x and Creigton 1x. It's just not realistic at all. And, don't give me what the 16 team conference is like- that's a totally different animal, and you know it.

No I don't know it. Do the same thing we do now. Have an unifficial preseason poll at the end of signing day and use that to set up your double up games.

(01-25-2013 09:51 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I'm making that case that, even using divisions to simplify scheduling, divisions aren't limiting Marquette's eastern presence that much. Of your 18 league games, you'd have 8 games against eastern teams and 10 against midwestern teams. You'd have 2 home-and-homes with east coast teams, plus 2 east coast road games. That's four trips to the six east coast teams and five trips to the five other midwest teams. It's not like you're one game every other year at MSG or Verizon.

Especially if the divisions don't exist in the standings.

And my point is don't relegate MU to a midwest scheduling requirement. If travel is not an issue for BE teams, then only bring in teams that you are willing to play twice, at the risk of not playing an eastern school. That should be the standard for #11 and #12. If you are willing to play SLU/Creighton/Dayton twice at the risk of only playing GU/VU once, bring them in. That is what you are demanding of MU/DU. If you are not willing to lose a GU/VU game to play SLU/Creighton/Dayton twice, then don't bring them in or don't go to 12.

(01-25-2013 11:20 AM)stever20 Wrote:  but bottom line, geography does matter. You are closer than Georgetown is to St Louis for example. Why shouldn't you play them more often?

I think this is why Creighton to me is not a lead pipe lock. They are a pretty good outlier location wise. I mean, how far are they from even St Louis or DePaul?

It's not that far. It's right at the eastern boarder of Nebraska. Around the same distance between Pitt and providence.

(01-25-2013 11:20 AM)stever20 Wrote:  but bottom line, geography does matter. You are closer than Georgetown is to St Louis for example. Why shouldn't you play them more often?

I think this is why Creighton to me is not a lead pipe lock. They are a pretty good outlier location wise. I mean, how far are they from even St Louis or DePaul?

While we agree geography does matter, we disagree on the application. Geography doesn't matter to MU when it comes to travel, but it DOES matter if MU is relagated to some midwest scheduling requirement. If GU wants SLU/Creighton/Dayton as #11 or #12, then Georgetown should be willing to play SLU/Creighton/Dayton twice at the risk of only playing an eastern school once. That should be the standard for #11 and #12.

Now, before someone gets the wrong idea, I am not ranting against the inclusion of any one school individually. I am against any eastern/midwestern scheduling requirement.

(01-25-2013 11:24 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  No I don't know it. Do the same thing we do now. Have an unifficial preseason poll at the end of signing day and use that to set up your double up games.

This is reasonable.

(01-25-2013 11:14 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 09:28 AM)stever20 Wrote:  just don't see that being realistic. I mean, I don't see Georgetown willing to not play St John's 2x but playing Creighton 2x, while Marquette gets to play St John's 2x and Creigton 1x. It's just not realistic at all. And, don't give me what the 16 team conference is like- that's a totally different animal, and you know it.

Then keep it at 10. If you want Creighton/SLU/Dayton, then be willing to play them twice as often as you require MU to. Don't say you want Creighton and follow up with a "but you play them twice, not us" attitude. You should only add teams that you are willing to see twice on your own schedule.

I understand what you're saying--I didn't want Creighton or Saint Louis, but I think TV is going to strongly favor 12 over 10.

Russell Brand voice says: Don't think of it as playing Creighton twice a year every year--think of it as not having to play Seton HAll or PRovidence twice.

(01-25-2013 11:44 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 11:14 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 09:28 AM)stever20 Wrote:  just don't see that being realistic. I mean, I don't see Georgetown willing to not play St John's 2x but playing Creighton 2x, while Marquette gets to play St John's 2x and Creigton 1x. It's just not realistic at all. And, don't give me what the 16 team conference is like- that's a totally different animal, and you know it.

Then keep it at 10. If you want Creighton/SLU/Dayton, then be willing to play them twice as often as you require MU to. Don't say you want Creighton and follow up with a "but you play them twice, not us" attitude. You should only add teams that you are willing to see twice on your own schedule.

I understand what you're saying--I didn't want Creighton or Saint Louis, but I think TV is going to strongly favor 12 over 10.

Russell Brand voice says: Don't think of it as playing Creighton twice a year every year--think of it as not having to play Seton HAll or PRovidence twice.

lol- unfortuantely too true recently.

(01-25-2013 11:44 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 11:14 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 09:28 AM)stever20 Wrote:  just don't see that being realistic. I mean, I don't see Georgetown willing to not play St John's 2x but playing Creighton 2x, while Marquette gets to play St John's 2x and Creigton 1x. It's just not realistic at all. And, don't give me what the 16 team conference is like- that's a totally different animal, and you know it.

Then keep it at 10. If you want Creighton/SLU/Dayton, then be willing to play them twice as often as you require MU to. Don't say you want Creighton and follow up with a "but you play them twice, not us" attitude. You should only add teams that you are willing to see twice on your own schedule.

I understand what you're saying--I didn't want Creighton or Saint Louis, but I think TV is going to strongly favor 12 over 10.

Russell Brand voice says: Don't think of it as playing Creighton twice a year every year--think of it as not having to play Seton HAll or PRovidence twice.

Why don't you like Creighton? They deserve to be in more than any team except for Xavier and Butler (and Gonzaga).

Georgetown Marquette
Villanova Xavier
VCU Butler
St John's Creighton
Seton Hall Saint Louis
Providence Depaul

I don't see one side of the ledger as dramatically stronger than the other. I also don't think I'm screwing Marquette if they play all the western teams home-and-home, let's say in what right now looks like a bad year St Johns and PRovidence home-and-home, Seton Hall and Villanova away, and Georgetown and VCU at home. The next year would be Seton Hall and Villanova home-and-home, Georgetown and VCU away, and St John's and Providence at home. Then Georgetown and VCU home-and-home, St John's and Providence away, and Seton Hall and Villanova at home.

Am I screwing Marquette with this plan? Or am I screwing Georgetown by having them play Providence, Seton HAll and St John's home and home instead of Marquette, Xavier and Butler guaranteed?

(01-25-2013 11:51 AM)aughnanure Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 11:44 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 11:14 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:  

(01-25-2013 09:28 AM)stever20 Wrote:  just don't see that being realistic. I mean, I don't see Georgetown willing to not play St John's 2x but playing Creighton 2x, while Marquette gets to play St John's 2x and Creigton 1x. It's just not realistic at all. And, don't give me what the 16 team conference is like- that's a totally different animal, and you know it.

Then keep it at 10. If you want Creighton/SLU/Dayton, then be willing to play them twice as often as you require MU to. Don't say you want Creighton and follow up with a "but you play them twice, not us" attitude. You should only add teams that you are willing to see twice on your own schedule.

I understand what you're saying--I didn't want Creighton or Saint Louis, but I think TV is going to strongly favor 12 over 10.

Russell Brand voice says: Don't think of it as playing Creighton twice a year every year--think of it as not having to play Seton HAll or PRovidence twice.

Why don't you like Creighton? They deserve to be in more than any team except for Xavier and Butler (and Gonzaga).

Lack of tournament success. I didn't want anybody who casual (one or two games a week) fans hear and say "who?" Those casuals are important to us.

But you're right. I must correct my inner Russell Brand--don't think of it as playing the Billikens twice a year, think of it as NOT going to play Providence once in a while.

(01-25-2013 11:44 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  I understand what you're saying--I didn't want Creighton or Saint Louis, but I think TV is going to strongly favor 12 over 10.

Russell Brand voice says: Don't think of it as playing Creighton twice a year every year--think of it as not having to play Seton HAll or PRovidence twice.

The difference there is MU does have quite a few alums in the east, so any eastern game is gold to the University.

How about we spilt the difference. We'll trade one Creighton/Dayton/SLU home-home with SJU every year for one PC/SHU home-home, and we'll play SJU, GU and VU twice.