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Our seeding issue
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3601 Offline
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Post: #1
Our seeding issue
It seems like teams are penalized more for not having a great win than teams are penalized for having bad losses.
01-15-2013 05:52 PM
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mairving Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Our seeding issue
(01-15-2013 05:52 PM)3601 Wrote:  It seems like teams are penalized more for not having a great win than teams are penalized for having bad losses.

Why do you think it is that way? It's probably the same reason that teams from the not Big 6 5 conferences always tend to play each other in the opening round.
01-15-2013 05:55 PM
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mphsfan Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Our seeding issue
I think we should just win the games they put in front of us and let others complain about us being an 8/9 seed. Just win.
01-15-2013 06:24 PM
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Dynamos Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Our seeding issue
(01-15-2013 06:24 PM)mphsfan Wrote:  I think we should just win the games they put in front of us and let others complain about us being an 8/9 seed. Just win.

was about to post the same thing. seeding doesn't matter. just beat the team's that they put you against
01-15-2013 08:52 PM
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tnzazz Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Our seeding issue
(01-15-2013 06:24 PM)mphsfan Wrote:  I think we should just win the games they put in front of us and let others complain about us being an 8/9 seed. Just win.

Yep04-cheers
01-15-2013 08:53 PM
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cmt Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Our seeding issue
It is what it is. Just win baby.
01-15-2013 09:11 PM
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uofmcamaro Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Our seeding issue
It should be that way. A big win shows you can make some noise in the tournament.
01-15-2013 09:16 PM
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JMSTiger Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Our seeding issue
Seeding matters a great deal. I would much rather be a top 4 seed and have a fairly easy opening round opponent than be a 7 or worse seed and face a good team right from the get go.
01-15-2013 09:19 PM
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Tigeer Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Our seeding issue
(01-15-2013 09:19 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  Seeding matters a great deal. I would much rather be a top 4 seed and have a fairly easy opening round opponent than be a 7 or worse seed and face a good team right from the get go.

yep
01-15-2013 09:23 PM
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cscottl1981 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Our seeding issue
(01-15-2013 09:19 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  Seeding matters a great deal. I would much rather be a top 4 seed and have a fairly easy opening round opponent than be a 7 or worse seed and face a good team right from the get go.

Not sure Mr. Dynamos has watched much of the NCAA Tournament based on his comment.
A 31-3 two seed has a significantly better chance to advance in the tournament than a 31-3 8 seed.

This ain't rocket science.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2013 09:25 PM by cscottl1981.)
01-15-2013 09:24 PM
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Dynamos Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Our seeding issue
(01-15-2013 09:24 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  
(01-15-2013 09:19 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  Seeding matters a great deal. I would much rather be a top 4 seed and have a fairly easy opening round opponent than be a 7 or worse seed and face a good team right from the get go.

Not sure Mr. Dynamos has watched much of the NCAA Tournament based on his comment.
A 31-3 two seed has a significantly better chance to advance in the tournament than a 31-3 8 seed.

This ain't rocket science.

only because the higher seed is typically a better team. has nothing to do with seeding. if your the better team it doesn't matter where the teams are seeded at the start of the game
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2013 07:56 AM by Dynamos.)
01-16-2013 07:55 AM
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Post: #12
RE: Our seeding issue
(01-16-2013 07:55 AM)Dynamos Wrote:  
(01-15-2013 09:24 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  
(01-15-2013 09:19 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  Seeding matters a great deal. I would much rather be a top 4 seed and have a fairly easy opening round opponent than be a 7 or worse seed and face a good team right from the get go.

Not sure Mr. Dynamos has watched much of the NCAA Tournament based on his comment.
A 31-3 two seed has a significantly better chance to advance in the tournament than a 31-3 8 seed.

This ain't rocket science.

only because the higher seed is typically a better team. has nothing to do with seeding. if your the better team it doesn't matter where the teams are seeded at the start of the game

you are ignoring the other side of that scenario, where the team you face is a worse team. That matters a great deal. Yes, as a 3 you are a better team, but the road is easier as they pair you against a worse team.

Much easier (generally) for a 3 to beat a 14, than a 3 to beat an 8.
Same as it could be easier for an 8 to beat a 14, than an 8 beat a 9.
01-16-2013 08:25 AM
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NJ1 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Our seeding issue
Seeding matters. A lot. That's why Calipari became so obsessed with it during his time here.

Upsets can and do happen, and if you're trying to go all the way you have to beat some good teams eventually, of course. But if your realistic goal is to try and make it to the second weekend? Seeding makes an enormous amount of difference.
01-16-2013 09:47 AM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Our seeding issue
(01-15-2013 05:52 PM)3601 Wrote:  It seems like teams are penalized more for not having a great win than teams are penalized for having bad losses.

While the tourney really doesn't get the "best" 68, for the greater part, the top 50 teams are in the tourney.

I think the committee wants to know whether there is a chance the at-large selection in question has demonstrated any ability to beat one of the 50 best.

Using Utah State or Murray State as examples, both of those teams showed in the regular season last year they were capable of beating top-50 teams. because of the FACT they HAD beaten a good team, it is conceivable they could win a game in the tourney.

Memphis this year will not be able to factually prove to the committee they could beat a Top 50 team because there is no team they beat that is top-50 quality.

I think bad losses are helpful when pairing down final decisions. Say Memphis is an at-large matched up with Middle TN. MTSU has a win vs. Ole Miss (good, not great team) and some "tough" losses. BUT, they also lost to Arkansas State.

If it came down to it, is the win vs. an at-large team (OM) better than Memphis' resume (assuming no at-large wins on schedule) vs. Memphis not having RPI 100+ loss like MTSU has vs. ASU?
01-16-2013 12:46 PM
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DoomHaynesJr Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Our seeding issue
(01-15-2013 05:55 PM)mairving Wrote:  
(01-15-2013 05:52 PM)3601 Wrote:  It seems like teams are penalized more for not having a great win than teams are penalized for having bad losses.

Why do you think it is that way? It's probably the same reason that teams from the not Big 6 5 conferences always tend to play each other in the opening round.

Damn, I'm glad somebody else noticed the annual "cannibalize non BCS school" AKA Round 2 of the NCAA Tournament.

I guess the fear is a loss of revenue (sarcastic tone) because when lower seed, small market schools advance, BB fans change the channel. Or maybe I'm just stomping sour grapes... nah!
01-16-2013 01:21 PM
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mphsfan Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Our seeding issue
(01-15-2013 09:19 PM)JMSTiger Wrote:  Seeding matters a great deal. I would much rather be a top 4 seed and have a fairly easy opening round opponent than be a 7 or worse seed and face a good team right from the get go.
of course it does, but we can do nothing to change our seeding other than win the games in front of us. We put ourselves in this situation. It is on the Tigers to make up for it in the tournament.
01-16-2013 01:37 PM
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Original Sabretooth Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Our seeding issue
Josh needs to hire someone to help him with the scheduling. You cannot take a "play the games and see where things shake out" approach to scheduling. John found that out by year 5 and Josh must do the same. You simply cannot schedule multiple 200-300+ rpi teams, if you play in a conference dominated by them. I think this year's team has the ability to be very good by season's end but its a shame they are likely to be straddled with such a crappy seed and a poor chance to advance.

That being said, it would suck just as bad to be a highly seeded Indiana or Gonzaga squad and see a 30 win Memphis team staring at you in the second round.
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2013 01:39 PM by Original Sabretooth.)
01-16-2013 01:39 PM
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3601 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Our seeding issue
(01-16-2013 12:46 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(01-15-2013 05:52 PM)3601 Wrote:  It seems like teams are penalized more for not having a great win than teams are penalized for having bad losses.

While the tourney really doesn't get the "best" 68, for the greater part, the top 50 teams are in the tourney.

I think the committee wants to know whether there is a chance the at-large selection in question has demonstrated any ability to beat one of the 50 best.

Using Utah State or Murray State as examples, both of those teams showed in the regular season last year they were capable of beating top-50 teams. because of the FACT they HAD beaten a good team, it is conceivable they could win a game in the tourney.

Memphis this year will not be able to factually prove to the committee they could beat a Top 50 team because there is no team they beat that is top-50 quality.

I think bad losses are helpful when pairing down final decisions. Say Memphis is an at-large matched up with Middle TN. MTSU has a win vs. Ole Miss (good, not great team) and some "tough" losses. BUT, they also lost to Arkansas State.

If it came down to it, is the win vs. an at-large team (OM) better than Memphis' resume (assuming no at-large wins on schedule) vs. Memphis not having RPI 100+ loss like MTSU has vs. ASU?

It seems like the nod would go to MTSU in that scenario because it seems like not having a "good" win is worse than having "bad" losses.

It's a very unique position to be in because most teams without "good" wins have lots of "bad" losses.
01-16-2013 01:46 PM
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3601 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Our seeding issue
In 2011 Utah State was 29-3 with a final RPI of 18 and got a 12 seed.

They were 0-2 against top 25 teams
2-0 against 51-100

They had one "bad" loss.

Their projected seed was a 7.

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2011/s...Utah-State
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2013 01:57 PM by 3601.)
01-16-2013 01:56 PM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Our seeding issue
(01-16-2013 01:56 PM)3601 Wrote:  In 2011 Utah State was 29-3 with a final RPI of 18 and got a 12 seed.

They were 0-2 against top 25 teams
2-0 against 51-100

They had one "bad" loss.

Their projected seed was a 7.

http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2011/s...Utah-State

Ouch.

The fact they only had 2 wins likely led to the 12 seed, although the "bad" loss might have dropped them a line.

That resume kinda show what Memphis could be facing. A couple "good" losses (BYU and Georgetown) wins against St. Mary's and LBSU (neither at-large selections) underscores the idea of "who can you beat?"

Worst case scenario for Memphis is that USM is the only team in the RPI top 100 at the end of the year. Heck even if UTEP is there, that is only three games vs. RPI top 100.

Xavier, Harvard, Oral Roberts and Northern Iowa are the only other teams that are probably going to crack the top 100. All of those teams have to avoid upsets to remain below 100.
01-16-2013 02:15 PM
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