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I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
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NJRedMan Offline
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I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
I don't think the nBE FB fans realize that if they want the BE name that they will have to pay for it as well. If the assists are to be split then whoever gets the name will need to pay off the other side for it.
01-15-2013 08:29 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
(01-15-2013 08:29 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I don't think the nBE FB fans realize that if they want the BE name that they will have to pay for it as well. If the assists are to be split then whoever gets the name will need to pay off the other side for it.

True. The brand could very well be worth more than the money that gets split up.
01-15-2013 08:56 AM
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stever20 Online
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
I'd say doubtful. The biggest thing in the split is the NCAA units. That's where the rubber meets the road. We're talkign there over 100 million dollars.
01-15-2013 09:32 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
(01-15-2013 09:32 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I'd say doubtful. The biggest thing in the split is the NCAA units. That's where the rubber meets the road. We're talkign there over 100 million dollars.

Going by your numbers, http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=607...pid8695811

I count 318 units total. IF each one is about a quarter million, that's around $80M, plus what's earned this year.

If each side, plus Notre DAme, keep their earned credits, that's 144 credits to divide up, about $38M, plus what's earned this year. So I'd say $50M for the brand is high, but not BigEastHomer-crazy.
01-15-2013 09:47 AM
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stever20 Online
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
(01-15-2013 09:47 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-15-2013 09:32 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I'd say doubtful. The biggest thing in the split is the NCAA units. That's where the rubber meets the road. We're talkign there over 100 million dollars.

Going by your numbers, http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=607...pid8695811

I count 318 units total. IF each one is about a quarter million, that's around $80M, plus what's earned this year.

If each side, plus Notre DAme, keep their earned credits, that's 144 credits to divide up, about $38M, plus what's earned this year. So I'd say $50M for the brand is high, but not BigEastHomer-crazy.

318 units plus what's earned this year(say 15 units times 6 years- 90 units total) would make it over 400 units or 100 million.
01-15-2013 11:45 AM
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JPSchmack Offline
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
I don't think splitting up the NCAA units will be as contentious as people think.

Shares already earned to be paid from 2014-18:
FB: 19, 18, 13, 13, 6 (69)
C7: 29, 22, 15, 11, 5 (82)
TW: 54, 43, 31, 19, 11 (158)

TW stands for "teams that walked away from their units already." That's what West Virginia, Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Notre Dame brought the conference, that the remaining 11 schools get to divide up.

Simply put, it's a lot easier to split someone else's money.
Each group is going to get what THEY'RE OWED. It's simply a matter of dividing up what NONE OF THEM earned. That's not too complicated.

C7 will suggest we simply divide their units 11 ways since there's 11 schools left. BEFB will say "no, we each take HALF and then divide amongst ourselves"

How do you solve the impass? Do both.

Every unit the 11 schools earned themselves, the group that earned it keeps (see chart above).
The remaining units are split evenly into two pools:
--Pool A is divided by 2 and BEFB gets half and C7 gets half
--Pool B is divided by 11 and BEFB gets 4 shares of that, C7 gets 7.
01-15-2013 03:48 PM
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stever20 Online
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
um- it's actually:
FB: 36(UConn), 23(Cincy), 15(USF)=74
C7: 36(Marq), 23(Vill), 19(George), 4(SJ)=82
left: 44(Lou), 43(Syr), 33(WV), 24(Pitt), 18(ND)=162

I *THINK* ND keeps their own units. So, talking about 144 units(plus whatever Lou, Syr, and Pit earn).

doing it your split- C7 gets 86.36 units, fb gets 57.6 units(decimals in there). Remember, Temple won't get squat, since not in hoops yet.

Where the thing hurts is the per school breakdown...
C7- 12.34 per school
FB 19.2 per school
01-15-2013 04:19 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
(01-15-2013 03:48 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  I don't think splitting up the NCAA units will be as contentious as people think.

Shares already earned to be paid from 2014-18:
FB: 19, 18, 13, 13, 6 (69)
C7: 29, 22, 15, 11, 5 (82)
TW: 54, 43, 31, 19, 11 (158)

TW stands for "teams that walked away from their units already." That's what West Virginia, Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Notre Dame brought the conference, that the remaining 11 schools get to divide up.

Simply put, it's a lot easier to split someone else's money.
Each group is going to get what THEY'RE OWED. It's simply a matter of dividing up what NONE OF THEM earned. That's not too complicated.

C7 will suggest we simply divide their units 11 ways since there's 11 schools left. BEFB will say "no, we each take HALF and then divide amongst ourselves"

How do you solve the impass? Do both.

Every unit the 11 schools earned themselves, the group that earned it keeps (see chart above).
The remaining units are split evenly into two pools:
--Pool A is divided by 2 and BEFB gets half and C7 gets half
--Pool B is divided by 11 and BEFB gets 4 shares of that, C7 gets 7.

Not a bad start. One quibble, and one major point.

Quibble--Notre DAme was a full party to the Mutual Commitment Agreement (pre-nup). They're walking away without an exit fee if they wait the 27 months, which they're publicly willing to do. (They know that they won't have to wait that long, but they won't ask to leave early.) Either they keep their 18 credits, or everybody's credits get tossed in a pot and ND gets 1/11.

Major point: We're going to have to pay for the name and the Big East Conference intellectual property.
01-15-2013 05:31 PM
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
(01-15-2013 08:29 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  I don't think the nBE FB fans realize that if they want the BE name that they will have to pay for it as well. If the assists are to be split then whoever gets the name will need to pay off the other side for it.

(01-15-2013 05:31 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Major point: We're going to have to pay for the name and the Big East Conference intellectual property.
Let's put it this way: the name and the logo and all the IP have a value. Determining that value and who should take possession of it are subject to negotiation. I think the C7 and the nBE are both fully aware of this. How could they not be?
01-16-2013 09:39 PM
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JPSchmack Offline
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
(01-15-2013 05:31 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Quibble--Notre DAme was a full party to the Mutual Commitment Agreement (pre-nup). They're walking away without an exit fee if they wait the 27 months, which they're publicly willing to do. (They know that they won't have to wait that long, but they won't ask to leave early.) Either they keep their 18 credits, or everybody's credits get tossed in a pot and ND gets 1/11.

Major point: We're going to have to pay for the name and the Big East Conference intellectual property.

The Quibble: Notre Dame would still draw their shares while they're a member, but walk away from everything coming from the NCAA after the day they join the ACC. That would just lower my numbers a bit because I didn't realize they were sticking around an extra year.


The Major Point: Yeah, but the payment for the Big East name is going to come from that Pitt/SU/Louisville/WVU pool of dough.

The real reason the units are "in play" is because of the name:
The NCAA pays the Tournament Loot to the conference, so if the C7 is the Big East, the BEFB group is losing their money even though THEY STAYED and the C7 LEFT.

I think it'll be a pretty easy thing to do. The Big East name is way more valuable to basketball than football, and they know it. So they can just ask for all of the "Those Who Left" NCAA loot in return, and maybe some OOC games.
01-16-2013 09:58 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
(01-16-2013 09:58 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  
(01-15-2013 05:31 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Quibble--Notre DAme was a full party to the Mutual Commitment Agreement (pre-nup). They're walking away without an exit fee if they wait the 27 months, which they're publicly willing to do. (They know that they won't have to wait that long, but they won't ask to leave early.) Either they keep their 18 credits, or everybody's credits get tossed in a pot and ND gets 1/11.

Major point: We're going to have to pay for the name and the Big East Conference intellectual property.

The Quibble: Notre Dame would still draw their shares while they're a member, but walk away from everything coming from the NCAA after the day they join the ACC. That would just lower my numbers a bit because I didn't realize they were sticking around an extra year.

No, the point is, they're covered separately under the "Pre-NUp." Notre Dame's AD (I think) said that no, they're actually not paying an exit fee. Which I think means that they activated their separation rights under the pre-nup (it was technically a three-way ND/IA/Non-IA agreement)

IF they're not paying an exit fee because PreNup, logically they're also not walking away from their credits.

Quote:The Major Point: Yeah, but the payment for the Big East name is going to come from that Pitt/SU/Louisville/WVU pool of dough.

The West Virginia dough is already gone. Most of it gets paid out of the year-end revenue distributions, which means the money doesn't go into a bank, it goes straight to the other members. Pitt and Syracuse are going to give everyone $10M to split out of their 2013 Big East revenue checks. That $10M instantly gets split 14 ways. Same for Rutgers' and Louisville's exit fees in June 2014.

Quote:The real reason the units are "in play" is because of the name:
The NCAA pays the Tournament Loot to the conference, so if the C7 is the Big East, the BEFB group is losing their money even though THEY STAYED and the C7 LEFT.

Doesn't work that way. When the Big 8 became the Big 12, the checks for their NCAA credits kept coming to the same address. I believe that the NCAA will be sending the money to the FBS conference, because that's the one with the continuing autobid. However, as part of the settlement, the FBS conference would be sending us a check the same day for our share of that money.

Quote:I think it'll be a pretty easy thing to do. The Big East name is way more valuable to basketball than football, and they know it. So they can just ask for all of the "Those Who Left" NCAA loot in return, and maybe some OOC games.

You're right. We get the name, they get the credits and exit fees from Those Who Left. We should probably stop trying to convince fans who thought they had a lottery ticket to a power conference and are now down to C-USA with a Big East logo. They're probably not going to be persuaded to hand over the logo, until their teams do it, at which point they will be very glad to get rid of it, and Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2013 10:39 PM by johnbragg.)
01-16-2013 10:36 PM
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
(01-16-2013 10:36 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
Quote:I think it'll be a pretty easy thing to do. The Big East name is way more valuable to basketball than football, and they know it. So they can just ask for all of the "Those Who Left" NCAA loot in return, and maybe some OOC games.
You're right. We get the name, they get the credits and exit fees from Those Who Left. We should probably stop trying to convince fans who thought they had a lottery ticket to a power conference and are now down to C-USA with a Big East logo. They're probably not going to be persuaded to hand over the logo, until their teams do it, at which point they will be very glad to get rid of it, and Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
Love the Orwell reference, but as to the rest...

1. As far as I'm concerned, the Big East stopped being a "power conference" when Pitt and Syracuse announced they were leaving. I think that was September 2011, right? And it had been just barely in the club since the BC/VT/Miami exodus years before. So at least from Tulane's perspective, there wasn't (or shouldn't have been) any illusions about what we were getting into.
2. I agree that the Big East identity makes more sense with the C7 than with the Aresco League, and almost all (granted, a few exceptions) of the other nBE fan-comments I've read seem to share that view. It's not a matter of being "persuaded" of that fact, it's a matter of negotiating a fair-value in relation to it and then settling accounts with that fair-value as part of the final agreement.
3. "C-USA with a Big East logo" nice. But which C-USA are you talking about? The C-USA of 1995-2005, of 2005-2013, or the one that is scheduled to take effect next year? Those are three very different animals. The nBE is a much better option than the nC-USA. I don't think anyone really disputes that, do they? Well, that's why schools like Tulane and ECU keep accepting nBE invites even though the brand is so diluted.
01-17-2013 10:16 AM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
(01-17-2013 10:16 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(01-16-2013 10:36 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
Quote:I think it'll be a pretty easy thing to do. The Big East name is way more valuable to basketball than football, and they know it. So they can just ask for all of the "Those Who Left" NCAA loot in return, and maybe some OOC games.
You're right. We get the name, they get the credits and exit fees from Those Who Left. We should probably stop trying to convince fans who thought they had a lottery ticket to a power conference and are now down to C-USA with a Big East logo. They're probably not going to be persuaded to hand over the logo, until their teams do it, at which point they will be very glad to get rid of it, and Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
Love the Orwell reference, but as to the rest...

1. As far as I'm concerned, the Big East stopped being a "power conference" when Pitt and Syracuse announced they were leaving. I think that was September 2011, right? And it had been just barely in the club since the BC/VT/Miami exodus years before. So at least from Tulane's perspective, there wasn't (or shouldn't have been) any illusions about what we were getting into.

Well actually it was more likely when WVU left. When it came to FB Pitt and Cuse didn't really do much for a long time.

Also after the first raid we just had a bad rep. We actually went 5-3 in BCS bowls after that first raid beating the SEC, Big XII and ACC champs. Pretty good for a league on the edge of power conference status. Without ESPN's narrative we probably would have been seen nationally as better than the ACC.

Also when it comes to BBall (what we really care about in these parts 04-cheers) we've been a power conference since 1979. We are leaving because we we're or soon to be no longer the power conference we once were.
01-17-2013 11:00 AM
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
(01-17-2013 11:00 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Also when it comes to BBall (what we really care about in these parts 04-cheers) we've been a power conference since 1979.
Very true. I looked at my comment after it posted and I knew I should have specified Football power conference, but I didn't so it's fair that you called me on it.

Losing WVU was definitely a major blow. And it's true that Cuse and Pitt have been a little quiet lately in football. But still I think the BE was -- just barely -- still a power football conference until they announced they were leaving.
01-17-2013 11:34 AM
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
I actually don't want us to reference any former coaches in our league name. Sounds way too much of like pining for the glory days and this league should be focused on the present. If we can't get the Big East name (which I think would be crazy) we should call it the Elite league or some variant of that.
01-17-2013 11:39 AM
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
(01-17-2013 11:00 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Also when it comes to BBall (what we really care about in these parts 04-cheers) we've been a power conference since 1979. We are leaving because we we're or soon to be no longer the power conference we once were.

Redman, you really need to get with the lingo: "elite basketball conference." "Elite basketball conference." "Elite basketball conference."

Power conference is a football thing.
01-17-2013 11:57 AM
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
(01-17-2013 11:39 AM)nathanhm Wrote:  If we can't get the Big East name (which I think would be crazy) we should call it the Elite league or some variant of that.

The "Eastern Elite Conference" I like that, actually.
01-17-2013 11:58 AM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
(01-17-2013 11:58 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-17-2013 11:39 AM)nathanhm Wrote:  If we can't get the Big East name (which I think would be crazy) we should call it the Elite league or some variant of that.

The "Eastern Elite Conference" I like that, actually.

But we're also in the mid-west. If we don't keep the Big East name, then there is no reason to leave out our farmer friends. The Elite 12 Conference. The E-12.
01-17-2013 01:40 PM
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RE: I Don't Think the NBE FB Fans Realize
(01-17-2013 11:57 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-17-2013 11:00 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Also when it comes to BBall (what we really care about in these parts 04-cheers) we've been a power conference since 1979. We are leaving because we we're or soon to be no longer the power conference we once were.

Redman, you really need to get with the lingo: "elite basketball conference." "Elite basketball conference." "Elite basketball conference."

Power conference is a football thing.

I'm putting a post-it on my lap top right now to remind me. 04-cheers
01-17-2013 01:43 PM
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