OK, our Tigers are 11-3 following our victory over ECU. I am pretty happy with where we are right now, considering the season as a whole, and considering how some of the "big names" in college basketball are doing right now. Here are some comparisons for you.

Memphis 11-3 (not ranked in either poll)
Coach: Josh Pastner - 4th year as a head coach
recent National Championships - none

Losses (national poll ranking of opponent- AP, USA Today)
VCU (24,26)
Minnesota (8,10)
Louisville (3,4)

Kentucky 10-4 (out of top 25, 28 and 32 in others receiving votes)
Coach: John Calapari
recent National Championships - 2012

Losses (national poll ranking of opponent- AP, USA Today)
Duke (1,1)
Notre Dame (16,17)
Baylor (NR)
Louisville (3,4)

North Carolina 9-4 (not ranked in either poll)
Coach: Roy Williams

Losses (national poll ranking of opponent- AP, USA Today)
Butler (14,17)
Indiana (5,5)
Texas (NR)
Virginia (NR)
Miami (NR)

So, our 3 losses are all to ranked teams. Both KY and NC have lost to unranked teams on their home court. This has happened despite these facts: their programs are "national powers", their coaches are "established" , and their programs have each won national championships within the last 4 years.

I have to say that fans of KY and NC have much more right to be upset about their team's current status than we do.

I would like ask that you review these facts and rethink some of the griping that we see on this board.

(01-10-2013 10:42 PM)covingtontiger Wrote:  OK, our Tigers are 11-3 following our victory over ECU. I am pretty happy with where we are right now, considering the season as a whole, and considering how some of the "big names" in college basketball are doing right now. Here are some comparisons for you.

Memphis 11-3 (not ranked in either poll)
Coach: Josh Pastner - 4th year as a head coach
recent National Championships - none

Losses (national poll ranking of opponent- AP, USA Today)
VCU (24,26)
Minnesota (8,10)
Louisville (3,4)

Kentucky 10-4 (out of top 25, 28 and 32 in others receiving votes)
Coach: John Calapari
recent National Championships - 2012

Losses (national poll ranking of opponent- AP, USA Today)
Duke (1,1)
Notre Dame (16,17)
Baylor (NR)
Louisville (3,4)

North Carolina 9-4 (not ranked in either poll)

Losses (national poll ranking of opponent- AP, USA Today)
Butler (14,17)
Indiana (5,5)
Texas (NR)
Virginia (NR)
Miami (NR)

So, our 3 losses are all to ranked teams. Both KY and NC have lost to unranked teams on their home court. This has happened despite these facts: their programs are "national powers", their coaches are "established" , and their programs have each won national championships within the last 4 years.

I have to say that fans of KY and NC have much more right to be upset about their team's current status than we do.

I would like ask that you review these facts and rethink some of the griping that we see on this board.

The negativity it too high here for were we are right now.

UNC and UK will have lots of other chances for big wins, we won't due to a poor conference RPI.

I don't think we're bad (far from it), but we did blow all our chances at a 'defining win' prior to March. Seems like we're in far worse shape right now.

And Roy and Cal did win titles, that does earn you (rightfully) some breathing room.

I'd say all three fanbases are not thrilled right now, nor should they be. But all of the teams above (us certainly included) have the parts to be March (april?) factors, so the fanbases are likely not jumping off anything tall either...

(01-10-2013 11:01 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  The negativity it too high here for were we are right now.

I don't know. I don't really see a ton of negativity (it IS there, but still).

I see a fan base that wants what is best for the program and is wondering if our current trajectory will keep us among the elite of college basketball.

Healthy discussion of pros and cons is what makes this (and any) community message board run. We're going to have some 'miserables' and 'sunshine pumpers' and that is good. But really it's just gotta be constructive, informative and fun.

Carry on

I think most wouldn't admit to being as upset about THIS season as much as the pattern of underachieving we've seen each of the last couple seasons. I think if we had made the sweet 16 last season or even just won the first game, you would not have seen the type of reactions you saw after the Bahammas.

Roy Williams has taken North Carolina to 3 final fours including a National Championship, and had them in the Elite Eight the past two years.

Under Calipari, Kentucky has an Elite Eight, a Final Four, and won a National Championship last year.

Memphis is in its third straight year of starting the year ranked only to fall out of the polls. We finished 4th in CUSA in 2011 and had to get on a hot streak in the conference tournament to get into he NCAAs. We haven't won a tournament game during Pastner's tenure.

In short, North Carolina and Kentucky are having off years. Memphis's season has to this point looked very similar to the last two seasons.

(01-10-2013 11:36 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  Roy Williams has taken North Carolina to 3 final fours including a National Championship, and had them in the Elite Eight the past two years.

Under Calipari, Kentucky has an Elite Eight, a Final Four, and won a National Championship last year.

Memphis is in its third straight year of starting the year ranked only to fall out of the polls. We finished 4th in CUSA in 2011 and had to get on a hot streak in the conference tournament to get into he NCAAs. We haven't won a tournament game during Pastner's tenure.

In short, North Carolina and Kentucky are having off years. Memphis's season has to this point looked very similar to the last two seasons.

^^^YEP

After watching UNC tank against Miami and UK squandering a lead to an awful Vandy team and almost lose(even though they got the benefit of a blown call on the winning basket), Memphis fans should take heart.

Still, I think that you have to say that some of our fans have out-of-sight expectations. History says the Tigers went to the Final Four in 1973, 1985, and in 2008. The average interval between these appearances is 17 years.

Still, some think we need to be there every 2 or 3 years. Some think that Josh should have had us there already. History says, however, that we may have to wait until 2025 to make it back, if the 17 year interval holds.

Kentucky and Carolina have been there and done that a lot more than we have. You want Josh to put us at their level? Bartow, Finch, Kirk and Calapari never did. You don't want a coach, you want a magician.

It's year four of the Pastner era at Memphis. It's time to start winning some NCAA tournament games. I think this is the year that he gets over the hump.

Just for the record:

By the end of year four as Memphis men's basketball head coach

Gene Bartow
-Had won three NCAA tournament games

Wayne Yates
-Had won zero NCAA tournament games

Dana Kirk
-Had won two NCAA tournament games

Larry Finch
-Had won one NCAA tournament game (first year team that won the Metro tournament and finished 26-8 was not eligible for NCAA tournament)

John Calipari
-Had won one NCAA tournament game

(01-10-2013 11:36 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  ...Memphis is in its third straight year of starting the year ranked only to fall out of the polls. We finished 4th in CUSA in 2011 and had to get on a hot streak in the conference tournament to get into he NCAAs. We haven't won a tournament game during Pastner's tenure.

And to flip it here as well. We did manage to win some do or die games in the CUSA tourney to qualify and acquitted ourselves well against Zona.

There are certainly two sides to this argument, which makes absolutists (note: not calling any poster in this thread one, BTW) which see Pastner as 'great' or 'terrible' pretty mystifying. There is a good deal of both good and poor input on his coaching ledger so far... which is not surprising considering his relative experience...

(01-10-2013 11:41 PM)tigergg Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 11:36 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  Roy Williams has taken North Carolina to 3 final fours including a National Championship, and had them in the Elite Eight the past two years.

Under Calipari, Kentucky has an Elite Eight, a Final Four, and won a National Championship last year.

Memphis is in its third straight year of starting the year ranked only to fall out of the polls. We finished 4th in CUSA in 2011 and had to get on a hot streak in the conference tournament to get into he NCAAs. We haven't won a tournament game during Pastner's tenure.

In short, North Carolina and Kentucky are having off years. Memphis's season has to this point looked very similar to the last two seasons.

^^^YEP

^^^DOUBLEYEP

UNC just looks like garbage

(01-10-2013 11:49 PM)covingtontiger Wrote:  Still, I think that you have to say that some of our fans have out-of-sight expectations. History says the Tigers went to the Final Four in 1973, 1985, and in 2008. The average interval between these appearances is 17 years.

Still, some think we need to be there every 2 or 3 years. Some think that Josh should have had us there already. History says, however, that we may have to wait until 2025 to make it back, if the 17 year interval holds.

Kentucky and Carolina have been there and done that a lot more than we have. You want Josh to put us at their level? Bartow, Finch, Kirk and Calapari never did. You don't want a coach, you want a magician.

I don't think there are many Memphis fans that expect a Final Four appearance every 2 or 3 years. If they do think that they are idiots. Most expect a win in the Dance every 2 or 3 years and Sweet 16 every 4 or 5 years. That is rational.

I think Pastner has done great at winning games (his winning % is very solid), winning home games (almost 90%), beating crappy teams and winning C-USA tournament titles. He really only fails in two areas- beating quality opponents and winning NCAA tournament games. I just have this feeling he is about to put both of those to rest this March. For some reason I feel a Sweet 16 coming.

(01-10-2013 11:49 PM)covingtontiger Wrote:  Still, I think that you have to say that some of our fans have out-of-sight expectations. History says the Tigers went to the Final Four in 1973, 1985, and in 2008. The average interval between these appearances is 17 years.

Still, some think we need to be there every 2 or 3 years. Some think that Josh should have had us there already. History says, however, that we may have to wait until 2025 to make it back, if the 17 year interval holds.

Kentucky and Carolina have been there and done that a lot more than we have. You want Josh to put us at their level? Bartow, Finch, Kirk and Calapari never did. You don't want a coach, you want a magician.

I guess if you want to look at it that way, okay. But I see extremely talented players wearing Memphis jerseys and have been for three years now. Maybe not final four talent, but certainly sweet 16 talent. You have to take that into account if you're going to evaluate our success, or lack thereof, accordingly IMO. Sure it's subjective, but relevant.

So pre-season polls should dictate the expectations on how fans perceive where their team should be?

Preseason ranking for 2012/13:

Kentucky 3
Duke 8
North Carolina 11
Memphis 17

To say that the other teams are having "off years" is obvious - after the losses they have incurred, but not based on pre-season polls (expectations).

Should pre-season polls set the bar for fan satisfaction?

I think UK will make a nice run in March, similar to that of Brandon Knight and company a few years back. Time for Josh to make his.

(01-10-2013 11:58 PM)ballen Wrote:  So pre-season polls should dictate the expectations on how fans perceive where their team should be?

Preseason ranking for 2012/13:

Kentucky 3
Duke 8
North Carolina 11
Memphis 17

To say that the other teams are having "off years" is obvious - after the losses they have incurred, but not based on pre-season polls (expectations).

Should pre-season polls set the bar for fan satisfaction?

Preseason polls are borderline worthless. I think we all feel we have a very talented team and most thought they could win a game or two against quality opponents. I think that is where the disappointment comes from. The Bahamas and the collapse against Louise was a double sucker punch to many Tiger fans expecting great things from this team. I am holding out hope that this team continues to improve, continues to win these games against crappy teams and by March they are ready to finally prove themselves against good teams in the Dance.

(01-10-2013 11:34 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(01-10-2013 11:01 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  The negativity it too high here for were we are right now.

I don't know. I don't really see a ton of negativity (it IS there, but still).

I see a fan base that wants what is best for the program and is wondering if our current trajectory will keep us among the elite of college basketball.

Healthy discussion of pros and cons is what makes this (and any) community message board run. We're going to have some 'miserables' and 'sunshine pumpers' and that is good. But really it's just gotta be constructive, informative and fun.

Carry on

its the excessive negativity following wins that's disturbing.

The board would be boring if there was no negativity or critiquing at all, but it just seems like we really lost after a win around here.

(01-11-2013 12:00 AM)Tampa Bay Tiger Wrote:  I think UK will make a nice run in March, similar to that of Brandon Knight and company a few years back. Time for Josh to make his.

I hope that Josh will have the team ready in March, but no way am I compelled to issue an ultimatum at this point, as many seem to be.

Every one of these programs has been stocked full of the country's best recruits, year after year. Because of our weak conference schedule, we were forced to front-load our OOC schedule with our toughest opponents. It didn't work out the way we wanted it to, but the experience from those losses has helped the team grow tougher and stronger.

Now is the time to support our coach, through the end of the season. What is the good of all this whining and gnashing of teeth now? It's getting tiresome.