(01-04-2013 01:31 AM)stever20 Wrote:  man, just thinking about it, I wish there were some way that we could get Gonzaga involved. They are so darn good.

Gonzaga to the C7 would be just as bad as SDSU and Boise to the whatever confrence in the East. It just makes no sense.

Also if the A10 lose those 4 teams, what about Cleveland State, Bradley or Wright State.

(01-05-2013 02:46 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-04-2013 04:22 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-03-2013 03:15 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  VCU's in an interesting spot. If the C7 doesn't invite them but takes X, Buter, Dayton and St. Louis from the A-10, the A-10 will have a lot more in common with the CAA than they will this year's version. They want to commit to being a top-notch basketball school, but if they're treated as an anomaly because they're a large public school, then the best way to preserve the basketball program might be to add FBS football as quickly as possible and try to get on with the nBE or CUSA. I don't know who the A-10 would add to replace the four schools they'd lose in this scenario, but they're almost certainly not adding any schools that improve on the departing ones.

A diminished A10 won't be any worse than the old CAA. As for "saving" basketball with football, no chance. The support is not there, and many are actively and adamantly against it. Besides, we only need to look at the long under-performing ODU basketball program to see how that little experiment has turned out. What should have been a down year for them is going to be their 2nd losingest season in 37 years of basketball. No thanks.

It depends on what you're replacing the departing four teams with. There aren't that many strong basketball programs in the East that aren't already part of the A-10 or C7: George Mason and *maybe* Charleston from the current/future CAA (Drexel's a small school that doesn't add much more of the Philly area than the A-10 already has, plus there'd probably be pushback from St. Joe's and LaSalle), Davidson from the SoCon, Iona and Siena from the MAAC, Stony Brook from the AE and ... I'm running out of ideas. Belmont? Hofstra? Christopher Newport puts a buttload of money into their athletics all of a sudden? Whoever you get to replace Xavier/Dayton/St. Louis/Butler will be a marked downgrade in the short-term and probably not close long-term either. It's better than CAA (particularly without ODU) but a far cry from the A-10 as constructed this or next season.

ODU's basketball problems have nothing to do with football. If they defend that last shot against Butler two years ago, there's a not-unreasonable chance they make Butler's run and land in the Final Four opposite VCU, bringing one of the most underrated college hoops rivalries to the national forefront in one of the most unlikeliest circumstances imaginable. A couple of less-than-great recruiting classes and, well, the margin between great and butt-awful is razor-thin in the mid-major neighborhood.

Any of those teams would be serviceable and put the A10 above the CAA sans ODU.

As for football having nothing to do with what will probably the worst season in the 37 year history of ODU's basketball, lol. ODU's coach, who has consistently failed to deliver in the postseason while other top CAA programs racked up tourney wins, has been publicly shopping himself around for a new gig since football came on the scene. You mentioned a symptom (bad recruiting), but are ignoring the underlying cause (resources, time and attention being devoted to football over basketball). There's really no reason Taylor should even be at ODU right now. The fact that he was even kept around this long speaks volumes to Wood's and ODU's priorities.

(01-06-2013 11:54 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(01-04-2013 01:31 AM)stever20 Wrote:  man, just thinking about it, I wish there were some way that we could get Gonzaga involved. They are so darn good.

Gonzaga to the C7 would be just as bad as SDSU and Boise to the whatever confrence in the East. It just makes no sense.

Also if the A10 lose those 4 teams, what about Cleveland State, Bradley or Wright State.

From all reports it seemed Gonzaga approached us. With the new media numbers being floated out, we've got to find a way to make it work.

Beteween Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, Butler, Xavier, and Gonzaga, there is no way that league doesn't get some additional final fours this decade.

(01-06-2013 06:20 AM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  A couple of things. Detroit wouldn't make any sense in an A-10 that has lost all of its other schools from the Midwest. Richmond wanted VCU to join the A-10, and went to bat for them, while we don't know what the situation is between GWU and GMU but rumors suggest it's not too rosy. Of course GWU might just be persuaded support GMU if the other alternative is a candidate like UMBC. In the North, if UMass leaves, pick two schools to get to 12 from among Northeastern, Hartford, Siena, and Hofstra, keeping in mind that one will be geographically paired with Rhode Island, and the other with Fordham.

On the other hand, if Dayton or St Louis remain in the A10, Detroit and/or Loyola or even Valparaiso likely get picked.

(01-07-2013 11:38 AM)nathanhm Wrote:  

(01-06-2013 11:54 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(01-04-2013 01:31 AM)stever20 Wrote:  man, just thinking about it, I wish there were some way that we could get Gonzaga involved. They are so darn good.

Gonzaga to the C7 would be just as bad as SDSU and Boise to the whatever confrence in the East. It just makes no sense.

Also if the A10 lose those 4 teams, what about Cleveland State, Bradley or Wright State.

From all reports it seemed Gonzaga approached us. With the new media numbers being floated out, we've got to find a way to make it work.

Beteween Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, Butler, Xavier, and Gonzaga, there is no way that league doesn't get some additional final fours this decade.

For travel reasons, BYU and Gonzaga almost have to be partners. Getting to Spokane from the east is only possible from Salt Lake City, Minneapolis, or Denver. A WCC without Gonzaga is almost unthinkable for BYU. Gonzaga can practically force BYU to the C7 table, as even the rest of the WCC has low crowds and limited media attention.

(01-07-2013 10:54 AM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 02:46 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-04-2013 04:22 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-03-2013 03:15 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  VCU's in an interesting spot. If the C7 doesn't invite them but takes X, Buter, Dayton and St. Louis from the A-10, the A-10 will have a lot more in common with the CAA than they will this year's version. They want to commit to being a top-notch basketball school, but if they're treated as an anomaly because they're a large public school, then the best way to preserve the basketball program might be to add FBS football as quickly as possible and try to get on with the nBE or CUSA. I don't know who the A-10 would add to replace the four schools they'd lose in this scenario, but they're almost certainly not adding any schools that improve on the departing ones.

A diminished A10 won't be any worse than the old CAA. As for "saving" basketball with football, no chance. The support is not there, and many are actively and adamantly against it. Besides, we only need to look at the long under-performing ODU basketball program to see how that little experiment has turned out. What should have been a down year for them is going to be their 2nd losingest season in 37 years of basketball. No thanks.

It depends on what you're replacing the departing four teams with. There aren't that many strong basketball programs in the East that aren't already part of the A-10 or C7: George Mason and *maybe* Charleston from the current/future CAA (Drexel's a small school that doesn't add much more of the Philly area than the A-10 already has, plus there'd probably be pushback from St. Joe's and LaSalle), Davidson from the SoCon, Iona and Siena from the MAAC, Stony Brook from the AE and ... I'm running out of ideas. Belmont? Hofstra? Christopher Newport puts a buttload of money into their athletics all of a sudden? Whoever you get to replace Xavier/Dayton/St. Louis/Butler will be a marked downgrade in the short-term and probably not close long-term either. It's better than CAA (particularly without ODU) but a far cry from the A-10 as constructed this or next season.

ODU's basketball problems have nothing to do with football. If they defend that last shot against Butler two years ago, there's a not-unreasonable chance they make Butler's run and land in the Final Four opposite VCU, bringing one of the most underrated college hoops rivalries to the national forefront in one of the most unlikeliest circumstances imaginable. A couple of less-than-great recruiting classes and, well, the margin between great and butt-awful is razor-thin in the mid-major neighborhood.

Any of those teams would be serviceable and put the A10 above the CAA sans ODU.

As for football having nothing to do with what will probably the worst season in the 37 year history of ODU's basketball, lol. ODU's coach, who has consistently failed to deliver in the postseason while other top CAA programs racked up tourney wins, has been publicly shopping himself around for a new gig since football came on the scene. You mentioned a symptom (bad recruiting), but are ignoring the underlying cause (resources, time and attention being devoted to football over basketball). There's really no reason Taylor should even be at ODU right now. The fact that he was even kept around this long speaks volumes to Wood's and ODU's priorities.

For someone who doesn't think VCU should add football, you're moving the goalposts a good bit. I never said the A-10 would be equal to the CAA after the defections, I said they'd be CLOSER to the CAA than the A-10 as it's constructed now. You can't remove Butler, Xavier, Dayton and St. Louis, replace them with George Mason, Davidson, Charleston and Stony Brook (or whatever four teams you want to reasonably include) and not expect the league to suffer accordingly. I'm not saying VCU is too good for the A-10 -- I wanted the Rams there since the day the Metro booted them -- but if the Catholic schools make the offers and stand pat, and you think VCU still has upward ambitions, then they're out of conference options at that point. Unless they add football.

If Blaine Taylor wanted to leave ODU because of the football team, then he made an awfully weird decision to shop himself to the likes of Stanford, Utah and Wyoming, all of which already have FBS football. As for resource/time/attention drain, in what tangible way has that happened? And from whom? Has the men's basketball budget dropped in the last five years, or even risen less than should be reasonably expected? Has the marketing fallen off? Attendance (not counting this year's performance-driven dropoff)? You have to remember BT was pretty successful for a good stretch. This is the season where the chickens came to roost, all in spectacular fashion. Talent is a paint that can cover a multitude of sins, and now the program looks hole-riddled and primer-covered. If football has forced Wood Selig to neglect other programs, how to explain Wendy Larry, still popular after however man years as the women's basketball coach, getting the heave-ho after one down season? This isn't JMU -- they don't keep the coaches in the fridge three years after their use-by date because they're still technically digestible. If BT stays after this season, it won't be because Wood is too busy playing a beta of NCAA Football 14 as ODU.

I think VCU is a good cultural fit for the Catholic breakaways if they should make an invitation. Athletically they're right in the wheelhouse, even as a 30,000-student public. The religion thing seems a bit overplayed anyway. What, are the concession stands only going to serve communion?

(01-07-2013 11:38 AM)nathanhm Wrote:  From all reports it seemed Gonzaga approached us.

I don't care who aproached whom. It still makes no sense. But not much of Conference Realignment does.

(01-08-2013 02:16 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-07-2013 10:54 AM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-05-2013 02:46 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-04-2013 04:22 PM)thegalen Wrote:  

(01-03-2013 03:15 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  VCU's in an interesting spot. If the C7 doesn't invite them but takes X, Buter, Dayton and St. Louis from the A-10, the A-10 will have a lot more in common with the CAA than they will this year's version. They want to commit to being a top-notch basketball school, but if they're treated as an anomaly because they're a large public school, then the best way to preserve the basketball program might be to add FBS football as quickly as possible and try to get on with the nBE or CUSA. I don't know who the A-10 would add to replace the four schools they'd lose in this scenario, but they're almost certainly not adding any schools that improve on the departing ones.

A diminished A10 won't be any worse than the old CAA. As for "saving" basketball with football, no chance. The support is not there, and many are actively and adamantly against it. Besides, we only need to look at the long under-performing ODU basketball program to see how that little experiment has turned out. What should have been a down year for them is going to be their 2nd losingest season in 37 years of basketball. No thanks.

It depends on what you're replacing the departing four teams with. There aren't that many strong basketball programs in the East that aren't already part of the A-10 or C7: George Mason and *maybe* Charleston from the current/future CAA (Drexel's a small school that doesn't add much more of the Philly area than the A-10 already has, plus there'd probably be pushback from St. Joe's and LaSalle), Davidson from the SoCon, Iona and Siena from the MAAC, Stony Brook from the AE and ... I'm running out of ideas. Belmont? Hofstra? Christopher Newport puts a buttload of money into their athletics all of a sudden? Whoever you get to replace Xavier/Dayton/St. Louis/Butler will be a marked downgrade in the short-term and probably not close long-term either. It's better than CAA (particularly without ODU) but a far cry from the A-10 as constructed this or next season.

ODU's basketball problems have nothing to do with football. If they defend that last shot against Butler two years ago, there's a not-unreasonable chance they make Butler's run and land in the Final Four opposite VCU, bringing one of the most underrated college hoops rivalries to the national forefront in one of the most unlikeliest circumstances imaginable. A couple of less-than-great recruiting classes and, well, the margin between great and butt-awful is razor-thin in the mid-major neighborhood.

Any of those teams would be serviceable and put the A10 above the CAA sans ODU.

As for football having nothing to do with what will probably the worst season in the 37 year history of ODU's basketball, lol. ODU's coach, who has consistently failed to deliver in the postseason while other top CAA programs racked up tourney wins, has been publicly shopping himself around for a new gig since football came on the scene. You mentioned a symptom (bad recruiting), but are ignoring the underlying cause (resources, time and attention being devoted to football over basketball). There's really no reason Taylor should even be at ODU right now. The fact that he was even kept around this long speaks volumes to Wood's and ODU's priorities.

I never said the A-10 would be equal to the CAA after the defections, I said they'd be CLOSER to the CAA than the A-10 as it's constructed now.

Wasn't saying otherwise. On this we agree.

(01-03-2013 03:15 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  If Blaine Taylor wanted to leave ODU because of the football team, then he made an awfully weird decision to shop himself to the likes of Stanford, Utah and Wyoming, all of which already have FBS football. As for resource/time/attention drain, in what tangible way has that happened? And from whom? Has the men's basketball budget dropped in the last five years, or even risen less than should be reasonably expected? Has the marketing fallen off? Attendance (not counting this year's performance-driven dropoff)? You have to remember BT was pretty successful for a good stretch.

It's a perfectly rational decision. Taylor used to be top dog, then he wasn't, so he looked for a place to be put out to pasture. Except nobody wanted him, and yet Wood decided to keep him in spite of his public flirting and "being pretty successful" save for accomplishing anything in the NCAA tournament ever. I won't belabor this discussion because it's the wrong venue, but if basketball was the only game in town at ODU, do you really think things would have reached this point? Truly, this is shaping up to be the worst season in the entire history of the program. This is not "chickens coming home to roost"- this is pterodactyl's dropping piles of flaming crap on a once respectable program. Imagine if Painter hadn't transferred in from NC State! ODU could easily be at 0-15 right now. Sure, ODU is a rival of VCU, but 100% sincerely, it's a shame what's happening down there.

I'll bow out of the Blaine Taylor discussion with this: It's hard for any program at the mid or upper mid-major level to fire someone who in the previous eight seasons has four NCAA trips, an NIT semifinal appearance and seven campaigns of at least 22 wins. That buys you a lot of time and forgiveness, even if you're cozying up to other jobs. But ODU won't brook poor performance -- Wendy Larry got chased off after a less depressing season, and she had a lot more sweat equity built up.

What about Murray St to the A-10?

(01-09-2013 07:04 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  What about Murray St to the A-10?

Where would their other sports go. I doubt the OVC would allow them to keep the rest of their sports in the conference. Plus I don't see Murray State keeping up with 24-28 wins per seson.

Rethinking a 12-member post-realignment A-10 ...

Rhode Island \ UMass (or Boston University or Northeastern or Hartford)
Fordham \ Siena or Hofstra
St. Bonaventure \ Duquesne
St. Joseph's \ LaSalle
George Washington \ George Mason or Weak Hoops School Due To Block
Richmond \ VCU

That would probably be the best the A-10 can do.

Best they can do? Not worse than the CAA? Gee, thanks fellas.

Outside of the FBS football conferences, the MVC, WCC and A-10, here's the teams who've gotten at-large bids in the last 15 years: George Mason (likely to join A-10), Iona (last year). End of list. That's 18 at-larges to 2 for everyone else.

The A-10 would take a hit; everyone else takes a big blow
The CAA used to have five schools with NCAA wins in the last 15 years. They'd have ONE left.
The Horizon lost Butler already.
The MVC may be losing Creighton
The MWC can't play RPI games to the same degree anymore.
And who knows what's going to happen with a 16-team C-USA sans Memphis.

The A-10 will be a multi-bid league without Xavier and Temple, Butler, Saint Louis and Dayton.

A 12-team A-10 got five bids in 1997 and 1998. Four of the six schools that earned those bids are left going forward.
The conference win totals will remain the same for the teams that finish 1-5 in the league.
We're pretty solid out of conference as well.
VCU, Richmond and George Mason replacing Xavier, Temple and Va Tech.

And since all the conferences ahead of us in the pecking order are adding more quality schools, playing each other and losing to each other more, the bubble math is going to be about the same. The more things change, the more they'll stay the same for the A-10.

Also, I'd think that if the A-10 was gonna look west for someone who wins 30 games a year, Belmont would be more attractive than Murray State.

I agree that you are seeing more and more consolidation of basketball power in a smaller group of conferences.

The CAA is pretty much finished as a multibid league. The A10 may be next once the C7/BE get done picking up the scraps.

The traditional 2 bid league is going by the way side. A mid major league can't have a good year and reasonably expect to put 2 schools in the NCAAs anymore. Now its either you are funding basketball like a Top 40 program or you have to rely on the conference tournament.

The thing that the A-10 has going for them... generally speaking, we beat "everyone else." We're .682 vs non-BCS schools over the last 7 years. In the last seven seasons, we're .356 vs BCS teams and .682 vs non-BCS (OOC, not counting post-season).

If we play the same number of games vs the Top 7 conferences as we've been playing against the Top 6 conferences, and keep winning the same percentages we should be fine. -- And that is extremely possible. You'd expect those win percentages to go down with Temple/Xavier leaving, but Xavier was playing Gonzaga, Creighton, Memphis and Butler in that time span and lost some of those games and Temple was notorious for taking on teams like Duke. VCU's OOC win percentage in the last 6-7 years is actually BETTER than Xavier and Temple.

Couple that with our conference records for teams 1-4 staying the same, and we can have the same RPIs for those slots as we had before. The BCS schools cramming more power teams in the same number of conferences (plus Cincy and UConn pimpslapping the BEFB group), mid-majors being dead. It's going to come down the same things it came down to before. And that's our #2 team getting an at-large every year, and our #3 and #4 teams on the bubble.

Why isn't anyone considering Murray St for the A-10?

(01-14-2013 09:49 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Why isn't anyone considering Murray St for the A-10?

Because if SLU, BU, XU and UD leave; it's 9 hours and 28 minutes from the closest A-10 school and 2 hours and 7 minutes from any airport.

We'd take Belmont before Murray State. In Nashville, same impressive win percentage against similarly weak competition over the last few years.

Do people ever look at maps? If the A-10 loses all four of Xavier, Dayton, Butler, and St. Louis, why would they expand into the Midwest or south of the Ohio River? They can just add the teams I listed above in magenta and have a sensible footprint again. Where would Murray State put football anyway?

(01-15-2013 11:15 AM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  Do people ever look at maps? If the A-10 loses all four of Xavier, Dayton, Butler, and St. Louis, why would they expand into the Midwest or south of the Ohio River? They can just add the teams I listed above in magenta and have a sensible footprint again. Where would Murray State put football anyway?

It's not FBS FB so it really doesn't matter.

You would think they would try and get some strength back after being so neutered. Also KY is adjacent to VA so it's within its footprint.