Bob, I am ready for them to produce but we just went to a ncaa and I think this group can go back.

Are we playing like **** right now? yes

Are we going to turn it around? I don't know. I feel like we will.

Great group, but I can't feel confident we will keep this group. We never do. And LRTrojan is right, players don't improve much if ever in this program.

I don't know.

We can't say there is not the talent to play with wku any more.

We'll know more on Thursday. Or March. Either one.

(12-30-2012 11:33 PM)eh9198 Wrote:  Great group, but I can't feel confident we will keep this group. We never do. And LRTrojan is right, players don't improve much if ever in this program.

I don't know about that, folks. Solo was a very mediocre shooter at USF, but before he left here he was shooting lights out. Dre was a much better point guard his second year than his first. Courtney was a very reliable post player (when he was healthy) by the time he left here, and he was not as a freshman. JJ and Shane Edwards both got better their second years here. Granted we have had our share of Derrick Bailses, but we have also had success stories.

pappy those are good points that I have failed to think about it.

Bails and his ilk are frustrating because they obviously have the tools, but just do not get better. But I am sure every program has those. I assume.

And then there's T Akins. Sharp-shooter when he came here. Last seen selling barns outside of Lafayette.

(12-31-2012 10:03 AM)Scotto Wrote:  And then there's T Akins. Sharp-shooter when he came here. Last seen selling barns outside of Lafayette.

With a sign painted on the side: "I could hit this. Can you?"

(12-31-2012 08:59 AM)MICHAELSPAPPY Wrote:  I don't know about that, folks. Solo was a very mediocre shooter at USF, but before he left here he was shooting lights out. Dre was a much better point guard his second year than his first. Courtney was a very reliable post player (when he was healthy) by the time he left here, and he was not as a freshman. JJ and Shane Edwards both got better their second years here. Granted we have had our share of Derrick Bailses, but we have also had success stories.

Most of those you mention were Juco's or transfers. I'm not talking about them necessarily, although we have had our share of duds there also. So Solo shot better here than at USF, but I'm not sure Shields was the reason he did. If he's that great of a shooters coach, why hasn't he taught all these duds he's recruited to shoot better? Courtney is one of the very few who have stayed here and did improve. And yes, we've had a ton of Derrick Bailes.

I believe Steve's legacy here is going to be that he was a good defensive coach, and his kids always played hard.

(12-31-2012 08:59 AM)MICHAELSPAPPY Wrote:  

(12-30-2012 11:33 PM)eh9198 Wrote:  Great group, but I can't feel confident we will keep this group. We never do. And LRTrojan is right, players don't improve much if ever in this program.

I don't know about that, folks. Solo was a very mediocre shooter at USF, but before he left here he was shooting lights out. Dre was a much better point guard his second year than his first. Courtney was a very reliable post player (when he was healthy) by the time he left here, and he was not as a freshman. JJ and Shane Edwards both got better their second years here. Granted we have had our share of Derrick Bailses, but we have also had success stories.

Don't forget Mouzy. He was a scrawny little kid when he arrived who couldn't guard anyone, and by the time he finished he was one of the strongest players on the team who could rebound and dunk the ball and play decent defense. He gives Coach Barron all the credit.

(12-31-2012 11:47 AM)outsideualr Wrote:  

(12-31-2012 08:59 AM)MICHAELSPAPPY Wrote:  

(12-30-2012 11:33 PM)eh9198 Wrote:  Great group, but I can't feel confident we will keep this group. We never do. And LRTrojan is right, players don't improve much if ever in this program.

I don't know about that, folks. Solo was a very mediocre shooter at USF, but before he left here he was shooting lights out. Dre was a much better point guard his second year than his first. Courtney was a very reliable post player (when he was healthy) by the time he left here, and he was not as a freshman. JJ and Shane Edwards both got better their second years here. Granted we have had our share of Derrick Bailses, but we have also had success stories.

Don't forget Mouzy. He was a scrawny little kid when he arrived who couldn't guard anyone, and by the time he finished he was one of the strongest players on the team who could rebound and dunk the ball and play decent defense. He gives Coach Barron all the credit.

Shields taught him to shoot though.

I think Matt improved a lot as a player while he was here. But he already could shoot.

His shooting was what won him a spot on the team. But he improved a lot in other areas also. I think some players have peaked in high school and don't get any better. Bails was probably a good example of that. And others continue to mature and improve.
We've had some of both. And a work ethic is important. Matt worked his butt off. Bails wasn't that interested in putting out the effort to get better. He had to be pushed. And it could be that he was just as good as he was ever going to be.

(12-31-2012 01:12 PM)outsideualr Wrote:  Bails wasn't that interested in putting out the effort to get better.

I believe you have place your digit on the nub of the matter.

I have a special digit just for that purpose.