at Silky's. I asked him what he thought about the Tigers. He said what we all know....tons of potential and athleticism. So many Memphis kids they play with the weight of the world on their shoulders. If they break through that...as good as there is......

I talked to him after an NCAA game a couple of years ago...Great guy and super nice to talk to

Wish he would have worked our game with L'Ville.

I think this is the real problem with this team. Kind of a different take on what Wolken said a few weeks ago about these kids feeling entitled. I think it's all a mental thing with them. There is such a stark contrast in the new-comers (Shaq, Geron,) and even Stephens, though he isn't a newcomer, his health issues have kept him from getting good PT until this year, when we've all seen what he's able to do with those minutes. When those guys are on the floor, there is a different mentality and toughness out there that we rarely see from the Memphis guys.

It is what it is...bash away but I think there is a great deal of truth to this.

(12-29-2012 08:37 AM)genieiab Wrote:  I think this is the real problem with this team. Kind of a different take on what Wolken said a few weeks ago about these kids feeling entitled. I think it's all a mental thing with them. There is such a stark contrast in the new-comers (Shaq, Geron,) and even Stephens, though he isn't a newcomer, his health issues have kept him from getting good PT until this year, when we've all seen what he's able to do with those minutes. When those guys are on the floor, there is a different mentality and toughness out there that we rarely see from the Memphis guys.

It is what it is...bash away but I think there is a great deal of truth to this.

No reason to bash, you make perfect sense. Memphis kids feel more pressure to succeed and when things don't go well, they get bashed much more than the out of town kids. It gets in their heads and game over for a while.

(12-29-2012 08:44 AM)Tanyaskees Wrote:  Memphis kids feel more pressure to succeed and when things don't go well, they get bashed much more than the out of town kids. It gets in their heads and game over for a while.

Absolutely agree. And we as fans should realize this and not be so hard on them. They could have gone elsewhere, but they stayed home to play for the hometown Tigers. We should appreciate and cherish that, instead of expecting more from them than from out of town players...possibly expecting more than they are actually able to give.

(12-29-2012 08:49 AM)Hoopla Wrote:  

(12-29-2012 08:44 AM)Tanyaskees Wrote:  Memphis kids feel more pressure to succeed and when things don't go well, they get bashed much more than the out of town kids. It gets in their heads and game over for a while.

Absolutely agree. And we as fans should realize this and not be so hard on them. They could have gone elsewhere, but they stayed home to play for the hometown Tigers. We should appreciate and cherish that, instead of expecting more from them than from out of town players...possibly expecting more than they are actually able to give.

Too bad more don't share this belief with us.

Oh, I appreciate all of them. They're great kids. I think because of the situation Pastner was in at the time, his first recruiting class was a lot bigger that it normally would be, and can you imagine the fallout in this city had he not recruited all those Memphis guys. There will always be players with issues that are mainly in their head, it''s just that this team has more than it's share. I think it will work itself out as players come and go through the system and Pastner comes into his own as a coach. And sooner rather than later, as in the next season or two. He just had more that the usual amount of drama to deal with.

(12-29-2012 08:49 AM)Hoopla Wrote:  Absolutely agree. And we as fans should realize this and not be so hard on them. They could have gone elsewhere, but they stayed home to play for the hometown Tigers. We should appreciate and cherish that, instead of expecting more from them than from out of town players...possibly expecting more than they are actually able to give.

I don't expect more, I expect the same effort. Sadly I don't always see it. And if this is indeed the case, maybe they should not have stayed home. I certainly don't think this is the case with ALL Memphis kids. I think this particular group has been drama-prone. I guess we'll see over the next couple of seasons if there is any merit to this theory.

Having said that, I think Joe is having a fine season, especially since he was moved to the 2.

(12-29-2012 08:49 AM)Hoopla Wrote:  

(12-29-2012 08:44 AM)Tanyaskees Wrote:  Memphis kids feel more pressure to succeed and when things don't go well, they get bashed much more than the out of town kids. It gets in their heads and game over for a while.

Absolutely agree. And we as fans should realize this and not be so hard on them. They could have gone elsewhere, but they stayed home to play for the hometown Tigers. We should appreciate and cherish that, instead of expecting more from them than from out of town players...possibly expecting more than they are actually able to give.

What we all should appreciate, in addition to these kids staying at home... Is that ALL those that comment (bashers and sunshine pumpers alike) all are commenting because in the end they care deeply! As long we all care, we will continue to have an elite program. If the time comes when noone is bashing or pumping... Then we will know we are "doomed" or "boom outta here".

Then don't recruit Memphis kids.

We HAVE to recruit Memphis kids. The problem starts 4 and 5 years before they get here. The AAU programs need an overhaul. In hearing Penny is trying to change things in that regard.

(12-29-2012 10:54 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  We HAVE to recruit Memphis kids. The problem starts 4 and 5 years before they get here. The AAU programs need an overhaul. In hearing Penny is trying to change things in that regard.

Agreed.

And the HS coaches have to teach better fundamentals.

So many of the problems with locals can be traced to the atmosphere in the AAU and HS levels.

I'd imagine one of the hardest things about being a coach is managing egos, managing various maturity levels, fostering team chemistry.

While I think Pastner is actually pretty good for Xs/Os and excellent for recruiting, maybe this very thorny, elusive area is the one where he has the most room to grow.

Name dropper

(12-29-2012 10:54 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  We HAVE to recruit Memphis kids. The problem starts 4 and 5 years before they get here. The AAU programs need an overhaul. In hearing Penny is trying to change things in that regard.

We don't have to rely on them to level we have under Pastner, however. Cal had the right formula... pluck the 1-2 can't miss kids from Memphis and then fill in with kids from elsewhere. Get the Austin Nichols' and Adonis Thomas' and then shift focus nationally. Borderline kids from Memphis become a cancer to the team and to themselves.

I, for one, don't think we're expecting more out of them than they can produce. Apparently, Mr. O'Neil doesn't, either. When I see Chris making faces and mouthing at a teammate after committing a foul (which, maybe, the teammate did contribute to) or making a face and becoming a spectator when his man beats him, or when I see Ferro making faces like the world is over after committing a turnover, it just makes me wonder how many of our problems would magically disappear if they just handled adversity better -- forget about it, get back up and get after it 'cause the game's still going on!

I know there are lots of problems and pressures and crazy substitution patterns and all kinds of nutty behavior to deal with, but on the court, it's just basketball. When you get on the floor, give it everything you've got. We've got a deep bench. Everybody says so. You don't have to give 100% for 40 minutes every game like Antonio Anderson used to. Just play like you wanna win every minute you're out there. That's why DJ gets the biggest applause. He's nowhere near the most talented player out there (the most athletic without a doubt), but he gives it everything he's got every second the clock is running.

We don't even expect players to do it all the time -- just a lot of the time. That, for four years' free tuition, books, room, board, travel, etc., (I speak as a dad embroiled in all that right this moment) in addition to the huge privilege of wearing Tiger blue, is not asking too much, I don't think. Does anybody else?

Agreed! Growing up is a very hard thing for some to do.

(12-29-2012 11:06 AM)NJ1 Wrote:  I'd imagine one of the hardest things about being a coach is managing egos, managing various maturity levels, fostering team chemistry.

While I think Pastner is actually pretty good for Xs/Os and excellent for recruiting, maybe this very thorny, elusive area is the one where he has the most room to grow.

I think sometimes he sweats the wrong things. It's a learning process for sure.

(12-29-2012 12:46 PM)rws71 Wrote:  Agreed! Growing up is a very hard thing for some to do.

Ageed, but unless we're talking BYU, every program plays with kids roughly the same age. They all have to grow up and learn to handle adversity. Some just do it better than others.