I for one think that the primary issue was having so many highly rated players arrive at once and be pressed into service because of significant turnover and little veteran leadership.

Highly rated players know how good they were in high school, but in D1 even the scrubs on bad teams are better than the stars on many of their high school opponents.

That means adjusting what you can do on offense, what you have to do on defense, and the level if consistent effort it takes to be excellent as opposed to high school.

When you complicate the situation with a young coach who is publicly undermined by fans and has no record to hang his hat on in defense of what he is asking, and people from the local basketball scene trying to gain influence by telling local players they know best (a persistent situation going back decades), then it slows the whole process down.

Add to that the local expectations and weight.

It's a complicated situation that naturally hinders development. A lot of progress has been made, and more could have been made (i have certainly been frustrated many times by persistent poor habits) but anyone who judges the progress without considering the situation is being foolish.

(12-29-2012 03:37 PM)lenetzach Wrote:  I for one think that the primary issue was having so many highly rated players arrive at once and be pressed into service because of significant turnover and little veteran leadership.

This is exactly what I've been getting at. Only you have put it much more succinctly than I did. As always.

Someone up the thread said we should stop recruiting Memphis players. I don't think that is the issue. It's just that we had so many of them coming in at once. In the future, we will have upperclassmen around to help out. And a coach gaining experience with each passing season.

The fans are not undermining Josh. No, a lack of leadership on the court is Memphis' problem. The fan nonsense is just an excuse. No team in America has recruited at the level he has over the past 3-4 years and netted such mediocre results.

(12-29-2012 08:49 AM)Hoopla Wrote:  

(12-29-2012 08:44 AM)Tanyaskees Wrote:  Memphis kids feel more pressure to succeed and when things don't go well, they get bashed much more than the out of town kids. It gets in their heads and game over for a while.

Absolutely agree. And we as fans should realize this and not be so hard on them. They could have gone elsewhere, but they stayed home to play for the hometown Tigers. We should appreciate and cherish that, instead of expecting more from them than from out of town players...possibly expecting more than they are actually able to give.

Well put.

Been arguing this for a while.

On a message board- not as big a deal. But the live fans who constantly and loudly bash our own kids wears on them.

Results have not been spectacular or great,

But our results have hardly been mediocre.

Read it all before delivering more snark.

(12-29-2012 12:46 PM)rws71 Wrote:  Agreed! Growing up is a very hard thing for some to do.

Especially in these days and times, and in a fishbowl.

I say mediocre because our conference is just too pillowy soft to get any sort of gauge. When playing equally yoked programs, however, mediocre might be an oversell.

(12-29-2012 04:01 PM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  The fans are not undermining Josh. No, a lack of leadership on the court is Memphis' problem. The fan nonsense is just an excuse. No team in America has recruited at the level he has over the past 3-4 years and netted such mediocre results.

Fans who say "he can't coach" are ignorant (don't mean to insult anyone, just being bluntly accurate)

I'm not saying people can't question particulars, but rather that those who draw that conclusion fail to see or comprehend everything going on.

But large scale piling on by fan bases does create an atmosphere within which people who want to advance their agendas (as opposed to advancing the program) love to operate.

As for the results, it all goes back to consistency of effort, and I already described how our situation was different than any other that recruited at the same level. Be thankful we recruited that well

Josh's issues are leadership related and not X's and O's. There is no leadership on the court, and Josh isnt exactly a natural leader, either. Josh is a natural pleaser, which makes for a terrific recruiter, but not a natural leader. Not saying it cant be learned, but Memphis is a tough gig to cut teeth. I think the job was bigger than he was and he's had a tough time getting his footing. No top 20 program in the country, however, would have different expectations.

(12-29-2012 05:08 PM)Original Sabretooth Wrote:  Josh's issues are leadership related and not X's and O's. There is no leadership on the court, and Josh isnt exactly a natural leader, either. Josh is a natural pleaser, which makes for a terrific recruiter, but not a natural leader. Not saying it cant be learned, but Memphis is a tough gig to cut teeth. I think the job was bigger than he was and he's had a tough time getting his footing. No top 20 program in the country, however, would have different expectations.

Everything said here is a simplistic interpretation of what I have already explained.

Not saying that he doesn't have room to grow in leadership, but the only reason he is assumed to be the problem is because he is not already "proven" (by standards that will continue to move I'm sure).

Meanwhile, people who pay attention have seen proven coaches fail to get the most out of talented teams. That proves that the result does not mean an inability to do better.

Given that reality and other known factors it is ridiculous to say that his ability to lead is any worse than " to be determined"

No coach I know of could have returned our program to nationally prominence so quickly. What he has done is not without merit and appreciation from me.

We are lucky to have him. Very. Allow him to do his thing.