Have only seen this addressed piecemeal and in passing, but I'm pretty sure any new conference would be ineligible for an autobid until their 8th year of continuous multisport existence. The WAC ran into a similar (but different) issue with the minimum member team rule. In that case the requirement that conferences to maintain a core membership of six schools for at least five years was replaced with a rule that conferences must have 'seven active Division I members'. That obviously not gonna be a problem for the C7+3-5 teams, BUT rule 20.02.5.4, the Continuity rule, looks like it could be.

That rule states:
A multisport conference shall establish continuity. To establish continuity, a multisport conference must meet the requirements of Bylaw 20.02.5.1. In addition, the conference must meet the requirements of Bylaws 20.02.5.2 and 20.02.5.3 for a period of eight consecutive years. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11).


This matters because conferences must be "core conferences" to get an AQ to the NCAA tourney:
31.3.4.5 Additional Requirements, Men’s Basketball. To be considered eligible for automatic qualification in men’s basketball, a member conference must be a core conference (see Bylaw 31.02.3) and must meet the requirements of Bylaw 20.02.6. (Revised: 8/14/90, 12/3/90, 4/27/00, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

... and core conferences are, by definition, multisport conferences:
31.02.3 Core Conference. A core conference is a multisport conference that has been elected to membership and, as a result of legislation, is identified in the applicable sections of Constitution 4 related to representation in the NCAA governance structure. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

In sum: to be considered multisport the conference, and not the individual constituent member teams, MUST meet 20.02.5.2 and 20.02.5.3 for 8 consecutive years. And a conference must be multisport to be considered "core", and only core conferences get autobids.

Not a deal killer, but sucks to lose a bid for the better part of a decade!

Referenced bylaws can be found here:
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productd...s/D112.pdf

Everything I have read states that since the 7 are breaking off they get an autobid. I can't remember if that is a % of teams in a conference rule or if 7 is the magic number. Most of the early stories mentioned that.

I have no cite to the NCAA rules and I'm sure as hell not going to go looking for it on Christmas Eve.

Merry Christmas to all!

(12-24-2012 02:36 PM)LJay Wrote:  Everything I have read states that since the 7 are breaking off they get an autobid. I can't remember if that is a % of teams in a conference rule or if 7 is the magic number. Most of the early stories mentioned that.

I have no cite to the NCAA rules and I'm sure as hell not going to go looking for it on Christmas Eve.

Merry Christmas to all!

Yep, but that's in reference to the rule the WAC got changed. No one's addressed the conference continuity rule. There's a lot of bad/incomplete reporting out there on this.

Well even if there wasn't an auto bid, a conferences consisting of the C7 + Butler, VCU, and Xavier is guaranteed at least 4-5 bids a year regardless. In the long term The newest edition of the Big East(or whatever the name ends up being) will be fine.

The c7 have been together long enough to get auto bid in their new home. Biggest issue for c7 might be not having minimum number of teams in some Olympic sports to qualify for auto bid.(lax field hockey etc)

(12-24-2012 03:41 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Well even if there wasn't an auto bid, a conferences consisting of the C7 + Butler, VCU, and Xavier is guaranteed at least 4-5 bids a year regardless. In the long term The newest edition of the Big East(or whatever the name ends up being) will be fine.

Five would not be guaranteed.

(12-24-2012 04:07 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  The c7 have been together long enough to get auto bid in their new home. Biggest issue for c7 might be not having minimum number of teams in some Olympic sports to qualify for auto bid.(lax field hockey etc)

Yep, the C-7 has been together from 2006-13 (eight seasons), so they'd qualify. Same as when the MWC left the WAC.

(12-24-2012 04:22 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 03:41 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Well even if there wasn't an auto bid, a conferences consisting of the C7 + Butler, VCU, and Xavier is guaranteed at least 4-5 bids a year regardless. In the long term The newest edition of the Big East(or whatever the name ends up being) will be fine.

Five would not be guaranteed.

(12-24-2012 04:07 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  The c7 have been together long enough to get auto bid in their new home. Biggest issue for c7 might be not having minimum number of teams in some Olympic sports to qualify for auto bid.(lax field hockey etc)

Yep, the C-7 has been together from 2006-13 (eight seasons), so they'd qualify. Same as when the MWC left the WAC.

Good and well but as the continuity rule is written the CONFERENCE must have met sub-rules .2 and .3 of the same section to be considered multisport. Teams just playing together for X consecutive years would have mattered under the old rule regarding minimum conference membership and requirements, but that was scrapped to solve the WAC's problem in January 2011 when the new continuity rule was adopted.

Again, give the continuity rule a read. The conference itself has to have 8 continuous years of operation under the multisport sub-requirements to be considered multisport. If there new conference is created, the 8 years aren't there even if individual teams played together in another conference for 8 years.

From all the reports it sounds like this is the least of their concerns. Even if they don't get the 1 automatic bid, they can still get a few schools in with the at large bids.

There are two possibilities with this.
1. The Catholic seven win out and keep the BE name thus meeting the requirement
2. The Catholic seven create a new conference and prove their worth each season

If it's the second one, all they would have to do is go through the appeals process.



What about the other assets?
If the seven schools leave, it's likely that they'll be able to take the league's automatic qualification with them. NCAA rules state that a baseline for an automatic bid in the NCAA tournament is a collection of seven schools that have been playing together for five or more years.
The seven Catholic schools have that and will be able to take a bid with them. A source said that the NCAA, because of the volatility in the landscape, would strongly consider granting the hodgepodge leftover Big East schools a waiver for an automatic bid. (And there would be decent basketball with UConn, Cincinnati and Memphis).


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college...z2G0kfgjYU

------------------------------------------------------------------

Without voting to dissolve, the seven schools are expected to move together to form a new league. They would keep their automatic berth in the NCAA basketball tournament because NCAA rules state that as long as a group of seven universities has been in the same league for five years, it keeps its bid after a move together to a new conference.

The remaining Big East schools would probably retain their automatic bid to the NCAA tournament after going through an NCAA process, according to NCAA vice president and former Big East associate commissioner Dan Gavitt. That would mean there would be 32 automatic bids to the field of 68, up from 31.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...ource-says

(12-24-2012 05:41 PM)ivet Wrote:  From all the reports it sounds like this is the least of their concerns. Even if they don't get the 1 automatic bid, they can still get a few schools in with the at large bids.

There are two possibilities with this.
1. The Catholic seven win out and keep the BE name thus meeting the requirement
2. The Catholic seven create a new conference and prove their worth each season

If it's the second one, all they would have to do is go through the appeals process.



What about the other assets?
If the seven schools leave, it's likely that they'll be able to take the league's automatic qualification with them. NCAA rules state that a baseline for an automatic bid in the NCAA tournament is a collection of seven schools that have been playing together for five or more years.
The seven Catholic schools have that and will be able to take a bid with them. A source said that the NCAA, because of the volatility in the landscape, would strongly consider granting the hodgepodge leftover Big East schools a waiver for an automatic bid. (And there would be decent basketball with UConn, Cincinnati and Memphis).


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college...z2G0kfgjYU

------------------------------------------------------------------

Without voting to dissolve, the seven schools are expected to move together to form a new league. They would keep their automatic berth in the NCAA basketball tournament because NCAA rules state that as long as a group of seven universities has been in the same league for five years, it keeps its bid after a move together to a new conference.

The remaining Big East schools would probably retain their automatic bid to the NCAA tournament after going through an NCAA process, according to NCAA vice president and former Big East associate commissioner Dan Gavitt. That would mean there would be 32 automatic bids to the field of 68, up from 31.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...ource-says

When I said there was bad/sloppy reporting out there, this is what I was talking about. The 7 school/5 year rule is the membership rule that was changed to save the WAC. Again, this will not be a problem for the C7. There is a separate rule that speaks to continuity, and it applies to the conference. Even if the C7 retain BE naming rights, they'd be starting a new conference. Either that or the non C7 schools are the new conference. Either way one of the conferences didn't previously exist, and certainly wouldn't meet the 8 continuous year requirement to be considered multisport, and thus core, and thus eligible for an AQ.

(12-24-2012 06:05 PM)thegalen Wrote:  When I said there was bad/sloppy reporting out there, this is what I was talking about. The 7 school/5 year rule is the membership rule that was changed to save the WAC. Again, this will not be a problem for the C7. There is a separate rule that speaks to continuity, and it applies to the conference. Even if the C7 retain BE naming rights, they'd be starting a new conference. Either that or the non C7 schools are the new conference. Either way one of the conferences didn't previously exist, and certainly wouldn't meet the 8 continuous year requirement to be considered multisport, and thus core, and thus eligible for an AQ.

That's why there is an appeals process. The only ones who would be screwed are the non-c7 if the C7 keep the Big East name since they meet the minimum requirements of members and have continually competed for so many years. It's nice to have the VP of Men's basketball be the former BE commissioner and he has already voiced his thoughts about granting the new conference an auto bid. Here is some nice info on him. He is basically THE GUY who runs the ncaa tournament.

In addition to organizing and managing the men’s basketball championships, Gavitt will be responsible for the preseason and postseason National Invitation Tournaments; the NCAA relationship with the National Association of Basketball Coaches (NABC); the relationship with iHoops, the official Youth Basketball Organization of the NCAA and the NBA; serving as the primary liaison to the Division I, II and III men’s basketball committees; and strategic oversight of the site-selection process for each championship.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/publ...mpionships

Politics in the NCAA, it's great if it works in your favor.

I just want all this conference realignment crap to finally end, let these football schools play musical chairs to the tune of their football program. I personally wouldn't care if the new conf gets an auto-bid or not, I think when it's all said and done (with the new additions) we'll continue to put at least 3 or 4 teams in the tourney every year.

(12-24-2012 06:30 PM)ivet Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 06:05 PM)thegalen Wrote:  When I said there was bad/sloppy reporting out there, this is what I was talking about. The 7 school/5 year rule is the membership rule that was changed to save the WAC. Again, this will not be a problem for the C7. There is a separate rule that speaks to continuity, and it applies to the conference. Even if the C7 retain BE naming rights, they'd be starting a new conference. Either that or the non C7 schools are the new conference. Either way one of the conferences didn't previously exist, and certainly wouldn't meet the 8 continuous year requirement to be considered multisport, and thus core, and thus eligible for an AQ.

That's why there is an appeals process. The only ones who would be screwed are the non-c7 if the C7 keep the Big East name since they meet the minimum requirements of members and have continually competed for so many years. It's nice to have the VP of Men's basketball be the former BE commissioner and he has already voiced his thoughts about granting the new conference an auto bid. Here is some nice info on him. He is basically THE GUY who runs the ncaa tournament.

In addition to organizing and managing the men’s basketball championships, Gavitt will be responsible for the preseason and postseason National Invitation Tournaments; the NCAA relationship with the National Association of Basketball Coaches (NABC); the relationship with iHoops, the official Youth Basketball Organization of the NCAA and the NBA; serving as the primary liaison to the Division I, II and III men’s basketball committees; and strategic oversight of the site-selection process for each championship.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/publ...mpionships

Politics in the NCAA, it's great if it works in your favor.

I just want all this conference realignment crap to finally end, let these football schools play musical chairs to the tune of their football program. I personally wouldn't care if the new conf gets an auto-bid or not, I think when it's all said and done (with the new additions) we'll continue to put at least 3 or 4 teams in the tourney every year.

Am familiar with Gavitt (former associate commissioner, btw), but he has no say over this. It's the voting members and will either require a rule change or a collective decision to make an exception that's favorable to the new C7+ conference. The rule was adopted less than 1 year ago, and it was adopted for a reason: to cut down on realignment madness. This breakup will probably be far more acrimonious than the MWC/WAC breakup, so don't hold your breath that a future NBE commissioner candidate will be able to sweep this under the rug via an appeals process.

(12-26-2012 09:41 AM)thegalen Wrote:  The rule was adopted less than 1 year ago, and it was adopted for a reason: to cut down on realignment madness.

The rule was not adopted to stop or slow down realignment, or it would have made realignment more difficult, not less.

(12-26-2012 09:55 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(12-26-2012 09:41 AM)thegalen Wrote:  The rule was adopted less than 1 year ago, and it was adopted for a reason: to cut down on realignment madness.

The rule was not adopted to stop or slow down realignment, or it would have made realignment more difficult, not less.

Intent and effect are two different things! :) The entire purpose of the 8 year continuity rule was to keep new conferences from cropping up.

(12-24-2012 06:05 PM)thegalen Wrote:  ... Even if the C7 retain BE naming rights, they'd be starting a new conference. Either that or the non C7 schools are the new conference.

Yes, the name has nothing in particular to do with it ~ its a copyright / intellectual property issue, and whether or not the NuBigEast sells the name to the C7C, the NuBigEast is still the original conference.

And the reporting has been consistent that the C7 left the NuBigEast (they held a "get out of jail free" card if they let together, from back in one of the earlier compromises that kept the BigEast together). So its the C7C that is the new conference.

(12-24-2012 06:30 PM)ivet Wrote:  ... The only ones who would be screwed are the non-c7 if the C7 keep the Big East name since they meet the minimum requirements of members and have continually competed for so many years.

Getting the BigEast name does not change anything else. The C7C is still the new conference.

I'd think its a non-issue at present. Removing the C7C champion from the automatic bids will still leave the C7C champion and runners up with invites, and the same team or teams on the bubble will still be on the bubble with the same chances whether or not the champion goes as an at large team or as an automatic bid team.

Its a bigger issue for the non-revenue sports. Cross worked hard to establish a BigEast Cross championship, only to lose a team to the Big Ten. And now BigEast Cross has moved to the C7C since Rutgers was the only FB school with a cross program ~ which would seem to lose the Cross AQ, which would make it harder to recruit a sixth associate member to maintain the championship.

(The at-large field is fairly crowded for the Lacrosse national championship tourney, so the AQ could be the difference between having one team in the tourney and having none.)

Though the Big Ten only have five men's cross schools now, so maybe the new conference could invite Rutgers and MD as Cross associate members, while the C7C works to regain AQ status and the Big Ten programs look to building (or adding) a 6th cross program to the Big Ten.

(01-17-2013 06:42 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-24-2012 06:05 PM)thegalen Wrote:  ... Even if the C7 retain BE naming rights, they'd be starting a new conference. Either that or the non C7 schools are the new conference.

Yes, the name has nothing in particular to do with it ~ its a copyright / intellectual property issue, and whether or not the NuBigEast sells the name to the C7C, the NuBigEast is still the original conference.

And the reporting has been consistent that the C7 left the NuBigEast (they held a "get out of jail free" card if they let together, from back in one of the earlier compromises that kept the BigEast together). So its the C7C that is the new conference.

(12-24-2012 06:30 PM)ivet Wrote:  ... The only ones who would be screwed are the non-c7 if the C7 keep the Big East name since they meet the minimum requirements of members and have continually competed for so many years.

Getting the BigEast name does not change anything else. The C7C is still the new conference.

I'd think its a non-issue at present. Removing the C7C champion from the automatic bids will still leave the C7C champion and runners up with invites, and the same team or teams on the bubble will still be on the bubble with the same chances whether or not the champion goes as an at large team or as an automatic bid team.

Its a bigger issue for the non-revenue sports. Cross worked hard to establish a BigEast Cross championship, only to lose a team to the Big Ten. And now BigEast Cross has moved to the C7C since Rutgers was the only FB school with a cross program ~ which would seem to lose the Cross AQ, which would make it harder to recruit a sixth associate member to maintain the championship.

(The at-large field is fairly crowded for the Lacrosse national championship tourney, so the AQ could be the difference between having one team in the tourney and having none.)

Though the Big Ten only have five men's cross schools now, so maybe the new conference could invite Rutgers and MD as Cross associate members, while the C7C works to regain AQ status and the Big Ten programs look to building (or adding) a 6th cross program to the Big Ten.

No one outright owns the conference name. Whoever ends up with it will have to pay for it.

the c7 lax teams could invite an associate member, detroit? bellarmine? or even rutgers. or they could add richmond in all sports and have the 6 they need. maybe encourage depaul or one of the "newbies" to pick it up?
id really like to learn who the nebies will be. i can wait until 2014 for the league to start but would like to know at least who is coming soon

The NCAA is interpreting 7 teams together for 8 years as including a subgroup of an existing conference that breaks off and forms their own conference. Past Big East leadership helped create these bylaws and their interpretation to allow the Big East to split into basketball and football parts. When the Mountain West split off from the WAC, the rules were different and the MWC had to wait two years to get their own autobids. When Miami, BC, and Va Tech moved to the ACC, the football side lost their ability for 8 years to form their own conference (only to lose it again when Syracuse, Pitt, and WVU left). Technically, the C7 has to break away from the Big East, as the football schools can not break away from the Big East without suffering the consequences of this rule and basically starting from scratch as a conference.

The rule was originally installed nearly 10 years ago to prevent DII conferences from moving up entirely (which happened with the Big South and some others - recently the NCAA made a new DI conference from DII moveups impossible as they now require a DII team to have an invite from a DI conference) or for a conference to form from multiple different conference sources (like the Great Midwest or even the Metro as well as the America East (I think)). When a new conference is formed and officially recognized by the NCAA, the conference not only gets an autobid (with its dollars) but substantial amounts of annual grants that monetarily are more important than an autobid. Any talk of a new conference forming is almost always garbage, unless it is a breakaway group of at least 7 that have been together for at least 8 years from an existing conference.

The NCAA has granted the new National Collegiate Hockey Conference an immediate autobid based on the same principle that will be applied to the C7. Although single sports conferences have slightly different criteria (six teams together for 2 years), six teams broke away from the WCHA (and two from the CCHA) to form the NCHC. The six teams from the WCHA meet the continuity requirement necessary for the NCHC, even though the continuity requirement was met in a different league. By contrast, the NCAA has ruled that the Big Ten will not receive an hockey autobid for two years, as Big Ten hockey has never existed as an entity of six teams together for two years (as the Big Ten brings in 2 from WCHA, 3 from CCHA, and one program, Penn State, that previously didn't exist). The remainder of the WCHA (only four teams) retains its bid because they immediately offered five CCHA teams to still meet the criteria of an existing conference.

If the C7 voted to disband the Big East (which technically they could), the football schools would be totally screwed as they wouldn't meet the requirement for the 7 schools together for 8 years. Unless the "agreement" prevents this, the C7 would have a tremendous amount of bargaining power by just the possibility that they could vote to disband, as the C7 has the power to immediately rejoin their 7 together and meet the NCAA requirements of a conference.

The new C7 will have to also meet the other sports requirement. Lacrosse for example may not meet the autobid requirements of six teams together for two years, but in that case two years isn't really that long.

The continuity requirement technically allows a group of 7 from any conference to break off if those 7 have been together for at least 8 years. Technically, seven members of what remains of the Atlantic 10 can split off and form their own conference if they want to leave dregs behind after the C7 cherry picks.

NCAA rules background on a breakaway C7 lacrosse autobid:

http://www.collegecrosse.com/2013/1/14/3...ace-period

The c7 can't from what we've been told right now dissolve the Big East. Appearantly required 2 FBS teams to vote to dissolve as well.

Butler had a lacrosse program that actually spent sometime in the top 25 that they dropped a couple years ago. With all the new revenues, if they could find another women's sport to match scholarships with, I don't know if that's out of the question.

It was VERY controversial around campus when LAX was dropped. When I was in school it was as prominent as any sport after basketball.