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What is a mid-major?
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TheRock Offline
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Post: #21
RE: What is a mid-major?
(12-24-2012 02:48 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-23-2012 11:27 PM)DoubleJayAlum Wrote:  I see no reason whatsoever to post on this site. What is the point - to be talked down to by fans of Big East schools?!?

No, it's to exchange arguments and information. You guys are making good arguments about the Bluejays' fan support and consistent success.

I don't think I'm trashing Creighton when I say that a casual fan, and we're going to need casual college basketball fans (follow 1 team, watch 2-3 ESPN games a month) to recognize and watch, either doesn't know Creighton or knows them as a good midmajor. (And yes, they know some of our schools as "Big East doormats".)

If you get in, you'll be an asset to the league long-term. What I'm worried about is a short window that we'll have where national perception will either include the C-7 Big East as an "elite basketball conference" on a par with the Big 10, Big XII, SEC and New Big East, or as the "top midmajor league." Because that's going to matter to recruits and to fans in major cities with lots of sports options, two resources that the Big East needs.

The definition of the term mid-major has evolved over time just like the term AQ/BCS Conference evolving to being used to describe bball conferences. Your post highlights IMO the most relevant meaning of the term currently and that's related to recruiting.

Big time recruiting is all about a pathway to the NBA, not even development so much. (how much development did Kyrie get at Puke) Where can players go to increase their chances of going pro matters most and that pathway needs to include maximum exposure/promotion. So for recruits, leagues that have a lot of media exposure due to local/national coverage and tv contracts are grouped as High-Majors. That's why when a high major recruit like Moe Harkless (NBA rookie) goes to SJU it's not viewed the same way as former Top100 recruit Scott Machado (NBA rookie) going to Iona, even though both programs were probably on the same level last season. Machoado received mid-major exposure being in the MAAC which made his path to the NBA somewhat more difficult due to lack of exposure against better competition.

Teams like Gonzaga, Temple, and Butler overcome the mid-major league burden (somewhat) by scheduling and winning big OOC regular season games and in the NCAA's consistently. If you are a bad program in a high major conference you're called a doormat (BC) or sleeping giant (Depaul), which is still a step above mid-major.
12-24-2012 09:43 AM
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johnbragg Online
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Post: #22
RE: What is a mid-major?
(12-24-2012 09:43 AM)TheRock Wrote:  If you are a bad program in a high major conference you're called a doormat (BC) or sleeping giant (Depaul), which is still a step above mid-major.

Until the cold winds of realignment blow, and that security blanket is in tatters--that's where St John's, Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul are now.
12-24-2012 10:30 AM
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TheRock Offline
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Post: #23
RE: What is a mid-major?
(12-24-2012 10:30 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(12-24-2012 09:43 AM)TheRock Wrote:  If you are a bad program in a high major conference you're called a doormat (BC) or sleeping giant (Depaul), which is still a step above mid-major.

Until the cold winds of realignment blow, and that security blanket is in tatters--that's where St John's, Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul are now.

Lol...Not really, all four of those schools have coaches that can do well recruiting locally and return these schools to former levels of competition. SJU & Prov have put together great recruiting seasons lately that have them going in the right direction finally.

IMO the BE brand alone is advantage that will separate these schools from true mid-majors for the foreseeable future. As long as that holds true on the recruiting trail we'll be fine.
12-24-2012 11:14 AM
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JPSchmack Offline
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Post: #24
RE: What is a mid-major?
(12-24-2012 06:59 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  One thing I'd say before looking at the numbers is that the top school or two in one-bid leagues get considered mid-majors. People would look at, say, Dayton vs Vermont as a midmajor matchup, not just a mismatch like Dayton vs Hartford University.

Hahaha. After all that, the first thing you say is that Dayton's from a one-bid league!

And that's really the point here: Butler, Gonzaga, Memphis, Nevada/Utah State were running train on the Horizon, WCC, C-USA, WAC for a decade; and it would be a one-bid league most years if they won the tourney.

(12-24-2012 06:59 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Does/should (bids/teams) matter? It's more impressive if a 10 league gets 3 bids than a 14 bid league. (Yes, this takes some luster off of some of the Big East's totals--11 of 16 is just a little over half, but how often does 5 out of 9 or 7 out of 12 happen?)

I don't necessarily think so. Because the relationship between bids and "number of teams in a conference" doesn't really indicate anything about the strength of the league.

For example, look at the 8-team MWC that got four bids: They got four bids because their top four kicked the crap out of the bottom four. Does that make them a "tougher league" than 12-team Big 12 getting five bids? I don't think so.

And that's one of things I've been arguing on the A-10 board: "Stronger" doesn't necessarily mean "more bids" and "weaker" doesn't mean necessarily less bids.

BYU, SMC and Gonzaga account for all but FOUR of the WCC's bids in the last 15 years. The A-10 on the other hand, has 13 different teams in it this season who've gotten AT-LARGE bids in the last 15 years. It's not Temple/Xavier and a bunch of crap. You've got Elite Eight runs from three other schools not even counting VCU and Butler.

The A-10 is a deep and tough league, and that's probably costing them bids, not getting them more.

(12-24-2012 06:59 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  HAving looked at your numbers, (and assuming off the top of my head that the Mountain West averages 2-4 bids), that puts the A-10 and Mountain West as solid midmajor leagues (before the C-7 stripmines the A-10), the WCC right there in the conversation, with points off for lack of depth--I don't think anyone but Gonzaga, St Mary's and BYU has gone in a while. (REspect to the San Franscisco Dons of yore, but yore was a long time ago). The CAA struggles to get two bids, and everyone else is a one-bid league or has to hope their regular season champ has a strong enough resume to survive losing the confernce tourney

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to type--C-USA is a one bid league lving off the legacy of 1995-2005, plus MEmphis.

Again, that doesn't accomplish anything. you're back to square one.
We know the MWC and A10 aren't the Big Ten, Big 12 and ACC. (and neither is the Pac-12, nor the future Big East halves).
But your label for the 1-3 bid leagues and conferences that have NEVER had an at-large bid is the same group.

How many times has a "mid-major conference" gotten the same number of bids as a major conference? In 2006, dubbed "The Year of the Mid-Major", the MVC had a record four bids, which tied them with the ACC, Big Ten and Pac-10. They popped Champagne in the Valley.

The A-10's tied a BCS conference for bids eight times in the last 15 years, AND had MORE BIDS than a power conference six times in the last 15 years.

You either need four tiers, or the A10/MWC is in the top group.
12-24-2012 01:56 PM
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Post: #25
RE: What is a mid-major?
(12-24-2012 01:56 PM)JPSchmack Wrote:  
(12-24-2012 06:59 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  One thing I'd say before looking at the numbers is that the top school or two in one-bid leagues get considered mid-majors. People would look at, say, Dayton vs Vermont as a midmajor matchup, not just a mismatch like Dayton vs Hartford University.

Hahaha. After all that, the first thing you say is that Dayton's from a one-bid league!

And that's really the point here: Butler, Gonzaga, Memphis, Nevada/Utah State were running train on the Horizon, WCC, C-USA, WAC for a decade; and it would be a one-bid league most years if they won the tourney.

(12-24-2012 06:59 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  Does/should (bids/teams) matter? It's more impressive if a 10 league gets 3 bids than a 14 bid league. (Yes, this takes some luster off of some of the Big East's totals--11 of 16 is just a little over half, but how often does 5 out of 9 or 7 out of 12 happen?)

I don't necessarily think so. Because the relationship between bids and "number of teams in a conference" doesn't really indicate anything about the strength of the league.

For example, look at the 8-team MWC that got four bids: They got four bids because their top four kicked the crap out of the bottom four. Does that make them a "tougher league" than 12-team Big 12 getting five bids? I don't think so.

And that's one of things I've been arguing on the A-10 board: "Stronger" doesn't necessarily mean "more bids" and "weaker" doesn't mean necessarily less bids.

BYU, SMC and Gonzaga account for all but FOUR of the WCC's bids in the last 15 years. The A-10 on the other hand, has 13 different teams in it this season who've gotten AT-LARGE bids in the last 15 years. It's not Temple/Xavier and a bunch of crap. You've got Elite Eight runs from three other schools not even counting VCU and Butler.

The A-10 is a deep and tough league, and that's probably costing them bids, not getting them more.

(12-24-2012 06:59 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  HAving looked at your numbers, (and assuming off the top of my head that the Mountain West averages 2-4 bids), that puts the A-10 and Mountain West as solid midmajor leagues (before the C-7 stripmines the A-10), the WCC right there in the conversation, with points off for lack of depth--I don't think anyone but Gonzaga, St Mary's and BYU has gone in a while. (REspect to the San Franscisco Dons of yore, but yore was a long time ago). The CAA struggles to get two bids, and everyone else is a one-bid league or has to hope their regular season champ has a strong enough resume to survive losing the confernce tourney

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to type--C-USA is a one bid league lving off the legacy of 1995-2005, plus MEmphis.

Again, that doesn't accomplish anything. you're back to square one.
We know the MWC and A10 aren't the Big Ten, Big 12 and ACC. (and neither is the Pac-12, nor the future Big East halves).
But your label for the 1-3 bid leagues and conferences that have NEVER had an at-large bid is the same group.

How many times has a "mid-major conference" gotten the same number of bids as a major conference? In 2006, dubbed "The Year of the Mid-Major", the MVC had a record four bids, which tied them with the ACC, Big Ten and Pac-10. They popped Champagne in the Valley.

The A-10's tied a BCS conference for bids eight times in the last 15 years, AND had MORE BIDS than a power conference six times in the last 15 years.

You either need four tiers, or the A10/MWC is in the top group.

I have three tiers--power conferences (or, going forward in Big East terminology, "elite basketball conferences"), mid-majors and one-bid leagues.

Power conferences get four bids plus as a rule. If they don't, they're percieved as underperforming. I have to get some numbers, but a power conference/"elite conference" puts multiple teams in the Sweet 16 regularly. I'd say an elite conference that doesn't put 5 teams in the Final Four in a 10-year span is underperforming. (Underperform long enough, and your status could be challenged. If the PAC hadn't been lagging for the last ten years, no way their regular season champ gets left out last year.)

Mid-majors routinely get multiple bids, 4 in a good year. If they put two teams in a Sweet Sixteen, it's a banner year, not business-as-usual.

And the rest are one-bid leagues. Maybe their regular season champ loses in the tourney and they get two, but usually not.
12-24-2012 02:15 PM
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JPSchmack Offline
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Post: #26
RE: What is a mid-major?
(12-24-2012 02:15 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Power conferences get four bids plus as a rule. If they don't, they're percieved as underperforming. I have to get some numbers, but a power conference/"elite conference" puts multiple teams in the Sweet 16 regularly. I'd say an elite conference that doesn't put 5 teams in the Final Four in a 10-year span is underperforming. (Underperform long enough, and your status could be challenged. If the PAC hadn't been lagging for the last ten years, no way their regular season champ gets left out last year.)

Mid-majors routinely get multiple bids, 4 in a good year. If they put two teams in a Sweet Sixteen, it's a banner year, not business-as-usual.

And the rest are one-bid leagues. Maybe their regular season champ loses in the tourney and they get two, but usually not.

So the Pac-12 is a mid-major?
12-24-2012 04:10 PM
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bearcatlawjd Offline
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Post: #27
RE: What is a mid-major?
Mid-major, in football everything below the new Big East and Mountain West. (MAC, Sun Belt, new C-USA). Basketball everybody in the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, PAC 12, SEC, New Big East, C7, Mountain West are not mid-majors. Individual programs in other conference are also given major program status like Gonzaga. Anybody in a true one bid league is a mid-major.

If you are not sure ask these questions.

1. Is that team on TV?
2. Does that team make the post season?
3. Does that school play football.
4. Are you the only school from your conference to earn a NCAA tournament bid.
5. Is your basketball consistently ranked.

If the answer is no to every one of those questions, you probably are a mid-major.

The schools leaving the Big East are not mid-majors. Those left behind in the Big East are not mid-majors.
12-24-2012 04:56 PM
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JPSchmack Offline
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Post: #28
RE: What is a mid-major?
(12-24-2012 04:56 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  Mid-major, in football everything below the new Big East and Mountain West. (MAC, Sun Belt, new C-USA). Basketball everybody in the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, PAC 12, SEC, New Big East, C7, Mountain West are not mid-majors. Individual programs in other conference are also given major program status like Gonzaga. Anybody in a true one bid league is a mid-major.

If you are not sure ask these questions.
1. Is that team on TV?
2. Does that team make the post season?
3. Does that school play football.
4. Are you the only school from your conference to earn a NCAA tournament bid.
5. Is your basketball consistently ranked.

If the answer is no to every one of those questions, you probably are a mid-major.

And that's what I mean about the phrase being perverted into a meaningless phrase that does nothing but insult fan bases. The key part of the phrase is MID, indicating a mid-major is between something.

If everyone outside the current Power Six and MWC is a mid-major (except Xavier, Butler and Gonzaga!), you don't need the phrase at all.

Your explanation of "mid-major" illustrates the ridiculousness of it.

Gonzaga's your benchmark of a major PROGRAM in a non-major conference. The A-10 has three major programs that fit Gonzaga's description (Xavier, Temple, Butler minimum. We could debate others, but you'll accept those three as majors).

The A-10 has TEN teams who've advanced further in the NCAA Tournament than Gonzaga ever has. (That's the same number of Final Four schools as the Big Ten)

And yet, the A-10 isn't a major, they're a "mid-major" and a school that occasionally has basketball games on an extended premium sports tier network that available in some markets, but has never made the NCAA Tournament themselves (Northwestern) is a major?

That's a useless term. And hopefully we can just abandon it from being used ever again.

If George Mason joins the A10, there will be one conference left who's membership have gotten at-larges in the last 13 years (the MAAC, but they'd lose the team that won the auto-bid that season).

Mid-majors are dead.
(This post was last modified: 12-24-2012 08:20 PM by JPSchmack.)
12-24-2012 07:45 PM
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courtjester Offline
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Post: #29
RE: What is a mid-major?
The whole mid-major thing is dumb IMO. Is Clemson a high major because they play in the ACC and have a solid football program....though, they are historically average or worse in basketbal? What about Northwestern in basketball? Are they high major because they are in the Big 10? The label is stupid.
12-24-2012 08:00 PM
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Post: #30
RE: What is a mid-major?
(12-24-2012 08:00 PM)courtjester Wrote:  The whole mid-major thing is dumb IMO. Is Clemson a high major because they play in the ACC and have a solid football program....though, they are historically average or worse in basketbal? What about Northwestern in basketball? Are they high major because they are in the Big 10? The label is stupid.

Not really from a high major recruit's POV..."If I go to NW I could be the man & play against Mich St., Ohio St, etc., play in the B1G tournament and get pub on the B1G Network, ESPN!" Sounds like a high-major to me...
12-24-2012 08:44 PM
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courtjester Offline
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RE: What is a mid-major?
From NWestern's point of view, of course not. However, how many elite players are going to Northwestern nowadays...even with the Big10 name? If Northwestern is high major, where are their stud recruits, their tournament appearances, their NBA alumni, etc, etc? The reality is that the mid-major label is a media created label with no real definition or clear understanding for most of the public (and media included I would imagine).

[/quote]

Not really from a high major recruit's POV..."If I go to NW I could be the man & play against Mich St., Ohio St, etc., play in the B1G tournament and get pub on the B1G Network, ESPN!" Sounds like a high-major to me...
[/quote]
12-24-2012 10:51 PM
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Jet915 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: What is a mid-major?
(12-24-2012 08:44 PM)TheRock Wrote:  
(12-24-2012 08:00 PM)courtjester Wrote:  The whole mid-major thing is dumb IMO. Is Clemson a high major because they play in the ACC and have a solid football program....though, they are historically average or worse in basketbal? What about Northwestern in basketball? Are they high major because they are in the Big 10? The label is stupid.

Not really from a high major recruit's POV..."If I go to NW I could be the man & play against Mich St., Ohio St, etc., play in the B1G tournament and get pub on the B1G Network, ESPN!" Sounds like a high-major to me...

The problem is, Northwestern does not get high major recruits. Creighton routinely gets recruits that have received Northwestern offers.
12-24-2012 11:43 PM
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ivet Offline
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Post: #33
RE: What is a mid-major?
(12-24-2012 08:00 PM)courtjester Wrote:  The whole mid-major thing is dumb IMO. Is Clemson a high major because they play in the ACC and have a solid football program....though, they are historically average or worse in basketbal? What about Northwestern in basketball? Are they high major because they are in the Big 10? The label is stupid.

This! 04-cheers
12-25-2012 12:16 AM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #34
RE: What is a mid-major?
(12-24-2012 01:45 AM)College Basketball Fan Wrote:  
(12-24-2012 12:28 AM)Caltex2 Wrote:  I find it hard to believe Gonzaga has been to the NCAA's only 11 times when they've been to the last 14 (and counting, ecntually this year) not to mention 1995.

You are right, my mistake. That was the number of times they've won their conference tournament, not the number of times they've been to the NCAA.

Correct stats:

Gonzaga - 14 (1995, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012)

15 and it almost certainly will be 16 later this year.
12-25-2012 02:34 AM
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Post: #35
RE: What is a mid-major?
You can't really judge mid-majors by criteria like how many bids a team's conference gets. It's overall about facilities, academics, multiple NCAA Tournament bids, Final Four bids, history on a sliding scale from more recent to ancient, media coverage, big time recruits and more I'm leaving out.

The way I see it, here the tiers are. Please note that while these leagues may have individual programs that are exceptions, I'm explaining the rule not the exception or the league profile in the event that the special program(s) leave the league. And these definitions are by no means fully descriptive nor are all leagues grouped together created equal:

Tier 1:

BCS

This goes without saying. 90% (give or take) of the Final Fours, ALL of the championships since the seeding began except UNLV when they were a monster, great academics and state flagships, most of the money, best facilities--you get the idea.

Tier 2:

Multi-bid Threat Majors

Generally speaking, these leagues may not always get more than 2-3 bids in a given year but they have notable teams people know that get solid coverage, that generally speaking have good history, have teams that regularly not only make the Tournament but are at-large and sometimes even Final Four threats.

A-10, Big East of the future, MWC

Tier 3:

Multi-bid Threat Minors

These leagues are always a threat to get an extra team or two in the dance but anything above an 8 seed or a Sweet 16 appearance is a major shocker from any team in the league.

CAA, MVC, C-USA and the WAC before the recent defections.

Tier 4:

One Bid Majors:

Leagues whose top tier could realistically in a given year gain an at-large bid if all goes well or whose champion if it is top tier can be a factor in the NCAA Tournament but leagues where there's a sharp dropoff after the first few teams, if not the whole league some years. Little to no media coverage unless a team gets ranked or becomes a power.

Big West, Ivy League, MAAC, MAC, Sun Belt, Southern, Horizon, WAC as it currently is

Tier 5:

One Bid Minors:

These leagues generally need a team to lose no more than three games or play and win some tough non-conference games to nab an at-large bid and are generally first round fodder for higher seeds no matter the champion. Little to no regular season media coverage.

America East, Atlantic Sun, Big Sky, Big South, Ohio Valley, Northeast, Patriot League, Summit League, Southland, WAC in the future.

Tier 6:

HBCU's and independents

Great West, MEAC, SWAC

For many reasons, namely the brutal OOC's they play and overall resources, HBCU 's stand almost no chance of being competitive at this level beyond pulling off the occasional first round upset or scare as a 15 or lower seed. Some are virtual NAIA level programs. The so called Great West teams are just a on life boat until they get the right opportunity.

Tier 7: Special

Catholic-X and the WCC

It remains to be seen where the Catholic defectees fit in in the college basketball landscape but they'll most likely be between Tier-1 and Tier-2. It in many ways resembles the A-10 and or even a major version of the WCC.

Speaking of the WCC, while it's a yearly threat to get 3 or even 4 bids if the stars align right, the conference is a collection of mostly very small private religious schools that generally don't even rate in the top ten of entertainment options in their own markets. Most play in glorified high school gyms, including the Zags until a decade ago. If BYU and Gonzaga leave, the conference could become invisible with teams getting 13 and lower seeds each year and almost never winning a Tournament game. GREAT, memorable history in the league but it's still not close to a major.
(This post was last modified: 12-25-2012 10:05 AM by C2__.)
12-25-2012 03:48 AM
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C2__ Offline
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Post: #36
RE: What is a mid-major?
I'd like to address the A-10. It's obviously a great league that has upgraded further with Butler and VCU, reinforcing it that much more. But there's also plenty of deadweight in the league, as it has been decades since Duquesne, Fordham or LaSalle have been relevant. Take away a brief flash in the pan in the 1990's and La Salle looks worse. Ditto for St. Bonaventure minus their pair of flashes in the pan over the last 20 years.

The A-10 is always good but never great and pretty much never has more than one great team in a given year. Then you have underachieving programs like UMass and URI who had a solid NCAAT run or two in the 1990's but couldn't sustain it and are still living off that legacy. St. Joe's has great history but is a glorified WCC school and would be in that league if on the West Coast.

Like I said, the A-10 is a good league but not great, hence why they fit into their tier, granted the best of that tier. Here they are again:

MAJORS

Tier 1

ACC
Big East (for now)
Big Ten
Big 12
Pac-12
SEC

Tier 2

A-10
Big East (later if still functioning)
MWC


Special Tier:

Catholic-X

-------------------

MID-MAJORS

Tier 3

CAA
C-USA
MVC
WAC (past)

Tier 4

Big West
Horizon
Ivy League
MAAC
MAC
Sun Belt
Southern
WAC (Present)

---------------------

LOW MAJORS

Tier 5

America East
Atlantic Sun
Big Sky
Big South
Northeast
Ohio Valley
Patriot League
Southland
Summit League
WAC (future)

Tier 6

Great West/Independents
MEAC
SWAC

Special Tier:

WCC


And this is not an exact science, as for example Gonzaga comes from low major roots and plays among them but clearly belongs at least as high as Tier 2 while clearly Tulane and perhaps even Rice belong in the low major tier given the states of their programs.
(This post was last modified: 12-25-2012 04:24 AM by C2__.)
12-25-2012 04:16 AM
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ivet Offline
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Post: #37
RE: What is a mid-major?
What is a "Special Tier?" Do we get to ride on the short bus?
12-25-2012 11:14 AM
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Post: #38
RE: What is a mid-major?
03-melodramatic

It just means they're hard to classify. The WCC has the potential to be a 4 bid league in a given year but it's membership still has FAR more in common with the Northeast Conference than a 2-3 bid league like the A-10 or even the Missouri Valley. If Gonzaga and BYU leave, they won't be sending 3 teams to the NCAA's, that's for sure.

I left off the Catholics because we don't know how they'll fit in college basketball. At worst they'll be at the level of the A-10 and at best they'll be at the same level as the football powers. I think they'll be somewhere in the middle and the fact they aren't big time state schools and play football alone is reason enough not to put them in same tier as the current VIP. If the big schools leave the NCAA, chances are the Catholic 7 won't be allowed follow.
(This post was last modified: 12-25-2012 12:37 PM by C2__.)
12-25-2012 12:36 PM
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johnbragg Online
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Post: #39
RE: What is a mid-major?
Caltex, you're making this way more complicated than it is. I did the numbers on Final Fours and Sweet Sixteens, as we gear up to debate and spread the word on the C-7+ as an "elite conference" in basketball, and I looked at the numbers of tournament bids.

And the numbers line up pretty well with most people's crude guesses of power conferences, top midmajor leagues and one-bid leagues.

Using the new lineups and going back 10 years, the ACC has 4 national championships and 9 Final Fours. The SEC has 3 national championships and 5 Final Fours. The New Big East has 2 national championships and 4 Final Fours. The Big 10 and C-7 Plus each have six Final Fours, and the PAC has 3. Outside those conferences, George Mason is the only Final Four team in the last 10 years.

Counting Sweet Sixteens, the new ACC has 33, the Big 12 has 23, Big 10 has 22, C7 Plus has 19, SEC has 18, NBE has 9. Everyone else put together has 11.

If you count Sweet Sixteens by leagues-at-the-time, the A-10 had 7 (Xavier x5, St Joes '04, Richmond '11), C-USA had 5 (Memphis x 4, UAB '04), the Mountain West, Missouri Valley and Horizon had 4 each (SDSU '11, BYU '11, UNLV '07, Utah '05, Bradley '06, Wichita State 06, Southern Illinois '07, Northern Iowa '10, Butler x 3, Milwaukee '05), the West Coast Conference had 3 (Gonzaga x2, St Marys '10) and the CAA had 2 (Mason '06, VCU '11).

That lines up pretty good with the crude guess of the Mountain West, A-10 and Missouri Valley as top mid-majors, C-USA and Horizon as one-bid leagues with a power program, the West Coast Conference and CAA as somewhere between one-bid leagues and top mid-majors. (Great, now I'm splitting things into un-necessary tiers.)

I also looked up tournament bids since the last big realignment in 2005. The Big East averaged 8.14 bids a year, the other BCS conferences from 4.14(PAC) to 5.85(Big 10). And again, we have the A-10 (20 bids, 2.85 per) , Missouri Valley (15, 2.14) and Mountain West (16, 2.29) at 2 bids per year, the A-10 just under 3.

The rest:
WCC 12, 1.71
CAA 11, 1.57 (lost VCU)
C-USA 11, 1.57 (lost Memphis)
WAC 10, 1.43 (lost everybody)
Horizon 9, 1.29 (lost Butler)
Sun Belt 8, 1.14
MAAC 8, 1.14
(This post was last modified: 12-26-2012 12:57 AM by johnbragg.)
12-26-2012 12:37 AM
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JHG722 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: What is a mid-major?
(12-24-2012 09:43 AM)TheRock Wrote:  Teams like Gonzaga, Temple, and Butler overcome the mid-major league burden (somewhat) by scheduling and winning big OOC regular season games and in the NCAA's consistently. If you are a bad program in a high major conference you're called a doormat (BC) or sleeping giant (Depaul), which is still a step above mid-major.

...Somewhat?
12-26-2012 12:45 AM
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