(12-08-2012 08:20 PM)mwp1023 Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 08:10 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 07:17 PM)Tulsafanzz Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 11:51 PM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  For UCF it is a no-brainier. We get into a conference with rival USF.

I thought UCF to the Big East made perfect sense, same with ECU. The other CUSA teams, not so much. Now it has turned in to a game of musical chairs & you don't want to be the one left standing.

What you are seeing is one of the reasons teams leave. Its not just that they have a chance to slightly improve thier situation---its because they know if they do not move, other teams will take thier place and they will then be left behind in a worse situation. What people typically fail to understand is that once the realignment merry-go-round begins, status quo is no longer an option.

We didn't want to leave USM, Marshall, Tulsa, and UTEP. We just cant stand pat and be in the same conference as UTSA,FIU,FAU,UNT etc. Two years ago we never would of considered moving to the sunbelt. But now, CUSA is the sunbelt. Those are not our peers. Our peers moved on to the nBE and I am glad we received the same opportunity.

I hope USM, UTEP, and Tulsa get an out shortly. They deserve better.

Marshall doesn't? Thought you guys still loved us.

(12-08-2012 08:17 PM)UABGrad Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 05:31 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 11:23 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 10:32 AM)cyc46 Wrote:  Or you could use Shockerbobs arguement and say that since the NBE is setting the market in 2013 that when CUSA gets to renegotiate in 2016 they should see an increase in income also. NBE will by that time be locked in a deal for a undetermined amount of time so any gains maybe only for a short time. Also not to mention the entrance and exit fees (which once again has come back to arguement but I refer you to the Orlando Sentinel article).

No doubt the exit and entry fees play a big role as well. All the departing schools are looking at paying 7Million to get out and 5 Million to enter. Essentially a 12 Million investment to enter a league that is on the same level and has the same exact access to the BCS. There is also no "founding member" discount. Everyone has the same exit fee.




http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012...-exit-fees

" UCF, Houston, Memphis and SMU will move to the Big East before the 2013-14 season. They are each contractually obligated to pay their annual share of television revenue under Conference USA's dual contracts with Fox Sports Network and CBS Sports for five years and an additional one-time $500,000 fee. That totals about $7 million.


Part of having these great relationships and having really good meetings is acting professionally," Conference USA Commissioner Britton Banowsky said. "And as part of that, we expect everyone to follow the bylaws and pay the exit fees. … Our sense is that the transition is going smoothly."

In the past, Conference USA has been willing to trade games with remaining members for reduced exit fees. Banowsky said this time around, though, the league will not be negotiating reduced fees in exchange for non conference games.

"We did that last time because we wanted to retain as much value as possible while negotiating television contracts, and it's something our members really wanted, but I'm not hearing that this time around," Banowsky said. "I think there is a lot of interest in these universities and natural rivals playing each other, but we haven't talked about tying it to a policy."

Banowsky said he didn't recall the timeline for the payments, but they are broken up into installments."



.

I think the whole 7 million dollar exit fee myth has been debunked. The exit fee is 500k plus any LOST TV revenue to the conference that is attributable to the exiting school. Since the contract is not decreasing--the exit fee is 500k. If the contract decreases, the amount of the decrease will be divided among the exiting schools and added to the 500k exit fee. There is not going to be a 7 million dollar exit fee per school. There is also no special "founders discount" on the exit fee. Everyone has the same exit fee.

Got a link for the aforementioned debunking?

No, I dont have it--but the pdf has been posted multiple times on this site. Maybe another member knows where to find it. The Orlando Sentinal article simply failed to notice that the exit fee is 500K plus "lost" income--not all income. Its very clear in the actual bylaws. There is also no special exit fee for founders. Everyone owes the same amount.

I found a post with the language...still looking for the pdf link.


"...Conference USA's bylaws can make it costly for its schools to leave for another conference. According to the bylaws, schools leaving the conference after giving fewer than six years' notice are subject to an exit fee ranging from $100,000 to $500,000, plus "the aggregate amount, if any, by which television rights fees received by the remaining members ... are reduced as a result of the member's withdrawal."
The more notice a school gives, the less it would have to pay in both exit fees and television rights damages. A school giving one year's notice would be on the hook for the $500,000 exit fee plus television damages for the five-year period immediately after the school's withdrawal. A school giving five years' notice would be assessed a $100,000 exit fee plus one year of television damages, the bylaws said.

If any of the conference's top television draws decided to join another conference, the damages, which are determined by the commissioner in consultation with other members, would be significant and could amount to "more than a couple million a year," a source said."

(12-08-2012 08:17 PM)UABGrad Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 05:31 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 11:23 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 10:32 AM)cyc46 Wrote:  Or you could use Shockerbobs arguement and say that since the NBE is setting the market in 2013 that when CUSA gets to renegotiate in 2016 they should see an increase in income also. NBE will by that time be locked in a deal for a undetermined amount of time so any gains maybe only for a short time. Also not to mention the entrance and exit fees (which once again has come back to arguement but I refer you to the Orlando Sentinel article).

No doubt the exit and entry fees play a big role as well. All the departing schools are looking at paying 7Million to get out and 5 Million to enter. Essentially a 12 Million investment to enter a league that is on the same level and has the same exact access to the BCS. There is also no "founding member" discount. Everyone has the same exit fee.




http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012...-exit-fees

" UCF, Houston, Memphis and SMU will move to the Big East before the 2013-14 season. They are each contractually obligated to pay their annual share of television revenue under Conference USA's dual contracts with Fox Sports Network and CBS Sports for five years and an additional one-time $500,000 fee. That totals about $7 million.


Part of having these great relationships and having really good meetings is acting professionally," Conference USA Commissioner Britton Banowsky said. "And as part of that, we expect everyone to follow the bylaws and pay the exit fees. … Our sense is that the transition is going smoothly."

In the past, Conference USA has been willing to trade games with remaining members for reduced exit fees. Banowsky said this time around, though, the league will not be negotiating reduced fees in exchange for non conference games.

"We did that last time because we wanted to retain as much value as possible while negotiating television contracts, and it's something our members really wanted, but I'm not hearing that this time around," Banowsky said. "I think there is a lot of interest in these universities and natural rivals playing each other, but we haven't talked about tying it to a policy."

Banowsky said he didn't recall the timeline for the payments, but they are broken up into installments."



.

I think the whole 7 million dollar exit fee myth has been debunked. The exit fee is 500k plus any LOST TV revenue to the conference that is attributable to the exiting school. Since the contract is not decreasing--the exit fee is 500k. If the contract decreases, the amount of the decrease will be divided among the exiting schools and added to the 500k exit fee. There is not going to be a 7 million dollar exit fee per school. There is also no special "founders discount" on the exit fee. Everyone has the same exit fee.

Got a link for the aforementioned debunking?

$6 million is the number that was discussed at Memphis. I haven't heard anything different. However, like most of us remaining or departing school fans; I'm not in circles that would have knowledgeable conversations around exit fees. As far I know, that figure hasn't changed.

However, others may know more than me.

It would be hard to defend that fact that 50% of the conference leaving did nothing to harm the conference's ability to earn income. I'd like to think that UCF, ECU, Tulane, SMU, Houston, and Memphis was worth something to the conference. :)

(12-08-2012 08:52 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 08:17 PM)UABGrad Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 05:31 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 11:23 AM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 10:32 AM)cyc46 Wrote:  Or you could use Shockerbobs arguement and say that since the NBE is setting the market in 2013 that when CUSA gets to renegotiate in 2016 they should see an increase in income also. NBE will by that time be locked in a deal for a undetermined amount of time so any gains maybe only for a short time. Also not to mention the entrance and exit fees (which once again has come back to arguement but I refer you to the Orlando Sentinel article).

No doubt the exit and entry fees play a big role as well. All the departing schools are looking at paying 7Million to get out and 5 Million to enter. Essentially a 12 Million investment to enter a league that is on the same level and has the same exact access to the BCS. There is also no "founding member" discount. Everyone has the same exit fee.




http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012...-exit-fees

" UCF, Houston, Memphis and SMU will move to the Big East before the 2013-14 season. They are each contractually obligated to pay their annual share of television revenue under Conference USA's dual contracts with Fox Sports Network and CBS Sports for five years and an additional one-time $500,000 fee. That totals about $7 million.


Part of having these great relationships and having really good meetings is acting professionally," Conference USA Commissioner Britton Banowsky said. "And as part of that, we expect everyone to follow the bylaws and pay the exit fees. … Our sense is that the transition is going smoothly."

In the past, Conference USA has been willing to trade games with remaining members for reduced exit fees. Banowsky said this time around, though, the league will not be negotiating reduced fees in exchange for non conference games.

"We did that last time because we wanted to retain as much value as possible while negotiating television contracts, and it's something our members really wanted, but I'm not hearing that this time around," Banowsky said. "I think there is a lot of interest in these universities and natural rivals playing each other, but we haven't talked about tying it to a policy."

Banowsky said he didn't recall the timeline for the payments, but they are broken up into installments."



.

I think the whole 7 million dollar exit fee myth has been debunked. The exit fee is 500k plus any LOST TV revenue to the conference that is attributable to the exiting school. Since the contract is not decreasing--the exit fee is 500k. If the contract decreases, the amount of the decrease will be divided among the exiting schools and added to the 500k exit fee. There is not going to be a 7 million dollar exit fee per school. There is also no special "founders discount" on the exit fee. Everyone has the same exit fee.

Got a link for the aforementioned debunking?

$6 million is the number that was discussed at Memphis. I haven't heard anything different. However, like most of us remaining or departing school fans; I'm not in circles that would have knowledgeable conversations around exit fees. As far I know, that figure hasn't changed.

However, others may know more than me.

It would be hard to defend that fact that 50% of the conference leaving did nothing to harm the conference's ability to earn income. I'd like to think that UCF, ECU, Tulane, SMU, Houston, and Memphis was worth something to the conference. :)

They replaced the exiting members--so as long as the TV contract is not reduced--there is no loss of income. However, its pretty obvious the conference is being underpaid, so its unlikely the network can prove they are paying the conference more than they are worth, which is why the conference contract probably wasnt reduced. If it is reduced, then the exiting teams will be responsible for that amont. However, the exit fee language is written in singular tense. So, its clear that each team is to pay the amount of reduction that is attributable to each individual team. Thats likely really hard to do, so I imagine any reduction would simply just be allocated evenly to each school. FWIW--I have heard however, that each school had to escrow a certain amount until the final contract numbers are established.

lol---Its also possible that the pdf of the bylaws that was posted is outdated---I guess we will find out in July.

(12-08-2012 12:30 AM)techdawg88 Wrote:  at a certain point the Big East basketball schools would do better splitting and adding some teams from the A10, CAA, maybe Butler

Right, and instead of getting 1mil plus, they likely get 500k. Not gonna happen.

(12-08-2012 08:20 PM)mwp1023 Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 08:10 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 07:17 PM)Tulsafanzz Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 11:51 PM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  For UCF it is a no-brainier. We get into a conference with rival USF.

I thought UCF to the Big East made perfect sense, same with ECU. The other CUSA teams, not so much. Now it has turned in to a game of musical chairs & you don't want to be the one left standing.

What you are seeing is one of the reasons teams leave. Its not just that they have a chance to slightly improve thier situation---its because they know if they do not move, other teams will take thier place and they will then be left behind in a worse situation. What people typically fail to understand is that once the realignment merry-go-round begins, status quo is no longer an option.

We didn't want to leave USM, Marshall, Tulsa, and UTEP. We just cant stand pat and be in the same conference as UTSA,FIU,FAU,UNT etc. Two years ago we never would of considered moving to the sunbelt. But now, CUSA is the sunbelt. Those are not our peers. Our peers moved on to the nBE and I am glad we received the same opportunity.

I hope USM, UTEP, and Tulsa get an out shortly. They deserve better.

Isnt the BE is the nCUSA?

(12-08-2012 09:38 PM)fiuphan Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 08:20 PM)mwp1023 Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 08:10 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 07:17 PM)Tulsafanzz Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 11:51 PM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  For UCF it is a no-brainier. We get into a conference with rival USF.

I thought UCF to the Big East made perfect sense, same with ECU. The other CUSA teams, not so much. Now it has turned in to a game of musical chairs & you don't want to be the one left standing.

What you are seeing is one of the reasons teams leave. Its not just that they have a chance to slightly improve thier situation---its because they know if they do not move, other teams will take thier place and they will then be left behind in a worse situation. What people typically fail to understand is that once the realignment merry-go-round begins, status quo is no longer an option.

We didn't want to leave USM, Marshall, Tulsa, and UTEP. We just cant stand pat and be in the same conference as UTSA,FIU,FAU,UNT etc. Two years ago we never would of considered moving to the sunbelt. But now, CUSA is the sunbelt. Those are not our peers. Our peers moved on to the nBE and I am glad we received the same opportunity.

I hope USM, UTEP, and Tulsa get an out shortly. They deserve better.

Isnt the BE is the nCUSA?

More and more every day. Truth is the original CUSA was not a bad league. Plus there are few differences--Navy, Boise, SDSU, UConn, and Temple (plus maybe Fresno). Thats a pretty scrappy league. Also, the basketball is clear plus. It is what it is---Its not like the SEC is ringing any of our phones off the hook.

(12-08-2012 08:17 PM)UABGrad Wrote:  I think the whole 7 million dollar exit fee myth has been debunked. The exit fee is 500k plus any LOST TV revenue to the conference that is attributable to the exiting school. Since the contract is not decreasing--the exit fee is 500k. If the contract decreases, the amount of the decrease will be divided among the exiting schools and added to the 500k exit fee. There is not going to be a 7 million dollar exit fee per school. There is also no special "founders discount" on the exit fee. Everyone has the same exit fee.

Got a link for the aforementioned debunking?
[/quote]

Someone posted a link to the actual C-USA bylaws last year with the details of the exit fee. It was very specific that the fee was $500K plus any loss of TV revenue. The exit fee isn't the value of the TV deal like the Orlando Sentinel reported. The C-USA isn't losing 100% of the TV deal. My guess it might get lowered by 25% and the departing schools would be responsible for that loss. I can assure you that none of the departing schools are planning to pay the $5-7 million that is tossed around here. The departing schools should pay whatever the fee is, but I don't see it being much over $500K a piece. We will know next season what the real numbers for the exit fee will be.

The last I heard, is like someone said, this is still all rumors about Tulsa, UTEP or Rice leaving.....I haven't heard anything definite....so until I do, it is just rumors!!!!

Marshall, the new ECU begging to get in somewhere else

(12-08-2012 10:48 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Marshall, the new ECU begging to get in somewhere else

You wont hear me begging to get in somewhere else. Now that we are all members of the "Group of Five" I see no logical reason to jump to another conference. We all have the same level of access now. Yeah I'm sure you will bring up the projected "more money" argument but we don't even know what those numbers will be.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

(12-08-2012 11:38 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 10:48 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Marshall, the new ECU begging to get in somewhere else

You wont hear me begging to get in somewhere else. Now that we are all members of the "Group of Five" I see no logical reason to jump to another conference. We all have the same level of access now. Yeah I'm sure you will bring up the projected "more money" argument but we don't even know what those numbers will be.

Ok, why did you move from the MAC to C-USA? Same group right?

As much as MU doesn't like it there is and will still be a pecking order. You have the Big 2, the pretty big 2, the sort of big 1, and the tweener one, and the best of the rest MWC/CUSA then the rest.

Part of the movement is always positioning. Assuming the ACC will over the next few years lose 4 to 6, you want in the BE because that is where the ACC is going to go for replacement schools. Why move from sun/mac/wac to MWC/CUSA, simple that is the tix to the BE. The more it changes the more it stays the same.

(12-09-2012 06:26 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 11:38 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 10:48 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Marshall, the new ECU begging to get in somewhere else

You wont hear me begging to get in somewhere else. Now that we are all members of the "Group of Five" I see no logical reason to jump to another conference. We all have the same level of access now. Yeah I'm sure you will bring up the projected "more money" argument but we don't even know what those numbers will be.

Ok, why did you move from the MAC to C-USA? Same group right?

We moved for three reasons......

#1....We wanted to play football in a conference primarily based in the south. The majority of our alumni reside in southern states.

#2....More bowl oppurtunities. Back then the Mac only had one bowl affiliation.

#3....CUSA revenue sharing. We lost money every year in the MAC. Even if we went to a bowl. In CUSA, if you go to a bowl you are guaranteed to at least break even on any bowl losses. The league puts back money for this purpose every year.

I dont blame the teams that have jumped to big east and i would not blame teams if they left for the mwc but only for travel reasons only . in marshalls case we have done nothing to get a call from the big east. our previous leaders did nothing to get us there and neither have our teams. only thing i hate is loosin ecu we have to improve our facilities and performance before we can complain about anything

Competition and prestige has a lot to do with it. National relevance. I'd like to believe all fans would want to see their team face the toughest competition available.

(12-08-2012 04:24 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 01:12 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 01:01 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  I still think the mega-merger of MWC-CUSA-Big East would have been better for all involved. Everyone would have been better off than they will be now, with a handful of exceptions. I guess in part I feel that way because I like logical regional conferences and traditional rivalries more than I care about being one or two rungs up in the perceived conference pecking order, especially when NONE of the conferences will be considered a major conference.

But it's too late for that, I guess.

We're cutting the fat

LOL. Yep...cutting the fat by adding SMU, Tulane...

but NOT having UAB, Rice, UTSA, UNT, FAU, FIU, ODU & Charlotte. The nBE lineup isn't awesome but it's a hell of a lot better than the abomination CUSA has become. I do understand, however, this is a dream come true for the Marshall folks in WV. You've got a NC school, VA school and 2 in South Florida for recruiting. It's like you died and went to heaven since WV has no talent.

(12-09-2012 11:58 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 04:24 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 01:12 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 01:01 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  I still think the mega-merger of MWC-CUSA-Big East would have been better for all involved. Everyone would have been better off than they will be now, with a handful of exceptions. I guess in part I feel that way because I like logical regional conferences and traditional rivalries more than I care about being one or two rungs up in the perceived conference pecking order, especially when NONE of the conferences will be considered a major conference.

But it's too late for that, I guess.

We're cutting the fat

LOL. Yep...cutting the fat by adding SMU, Tulane...

but NOT having UAB, Rice, UTSA, FAU, FIU, ODU & Charlotte. Look, I understand this is a dream come true for the Marshall folks in WV. You've got a NC school, VA school and 2 in South Florida for recruiting. It's like you died and went to heaven since WV has no talent.

Also keep in mind Marshall's success in D1-aa and lack of success in C-USA. By morphing their conference into a hybrid of the two... of course they'd be excited.

(12-09-2012 11:58 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 04:24 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 01:12 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(12-08-2012 01:01 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  I still think the mega-merger of MWC-CUSA-Big East would have been better for all involved. Everyone would have been better off than they will be now, with a handful of exceptions. I guess in part I feel that way because I like logical regional conferences and traditional rivalries more than I care about being one or two rungs up in the perceived conference pecking order, especially when NONE of the conferences will be considered a major conference.

But it's too late for that, I guess.

We're cutting the fat

LOL. Yep...cutting the fat by adding SMU, Tulane...

but NOT having UAB, Rice, UTSA, UNT, FAU, FIU, ODU & Charlotte. The nBE lineup isn't awesome but it's a hell of a lot better than the abomination CUSA has become. I do understand, however, this is a dream come true for the Marshall folks in WV. You've got a NC school, VA school and 2 in South Florida for recruiting. It's like you died and went to heaven since WV has no talent.

Cant believe you would include ODU in that statement when it was your very own AD (Holland) that was adamant about getting ODU in CUSA. His own words is that he thought ODU was the sleeping giant in the East.

Charlotte?....Charlotte was a charter member of this conference. Obviously Marshall was going to support them coming back. They have proven support in basketball and have great facilities. Its a great location for CUSA.

North Texas?...Already have better support and facilities than SMU does.

UTSA?.....Averaging more per game in football than ANY CUSA team other than ECU that left for Big-CUSA.

It's like I said before...I hated to lose ECU but I truly look forward to attending games in Norfolk, Charlotte, Nashville, Boca Raton etc. Not to mention, there is an influx of other schools likely coming up soon here in the east (Delaware, Georgia Southern, JMU etc.)

Have fun traveling out to California, Idaho etc. For the long-term, I'd rather keep it here in the east for the most part.