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Fire Blaine Taylor
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
(11-18-2012 03:26 PM)Obiwan Wrote:  
(11-18-2012 12:22 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(11-17-2012 08:53 PM)Obiwan Wrote:  I was referring to what my expectations were to begin the season.. I'm rolling with it..

What were they? I don't see that you contributed to the prediction thread, where nobody had us any worse than 3-1 at this point.

What is this a betting site? I don't live on the boards but I realized we are a young team and really didn't know what to expect..but what does it matter what one stated as far as wins and losses? I will still go the games buy season tickets regardless of what happens..why because I'm an Odu fan and support... Wait until next year when the football team drops some games .. What will you all say then.. Wilder needs to go?? Maybe you should have lowered your expectations the crow wouldn't have tasted so bad..

The underlying point is that, even those that had us going 16-14, the consensus was a 3-1 start. Do you think as a fan base we need to go in expecting worse than 16-14? I don't want to lower my expectations. I want an administration that can meet my expectations. Based on the run from '04-'05 to '10-'11, combined with the addition of football and the conference upgrade, it is not unreasonable to expect to be able to up our recruiting and have a chance to make the tournament every year and even crack the top 25 every now and then. I have too much pride in my grad school to be content with sucking. On a positive note, I went to undergrad at St. Joe's and they look pretty solid thus far so at least I have some stake in the season.

As far as the football team is concerned, it is reasonable to expect them to struggle against teams like UNC, ECU, and MD next year. That is apples and oranges. I will expect wins against the FCS opponents. It is not reasonable to expect the basketball team to lose to the likes of Holy Cross and UTSA and struggle against Morgan State. I didn't expect to win the Cleveland State game, and despite my rosy predictions I had us losing it. I did not expect to absolutely throw the game, however.
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2012 04:30 PM by EverRespect.)
11-18-2012 04:17 PM
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Big Bluezilla Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
Starting to think we need a coach cut from the same cloth as Karen Barefoot. Her energy, charisma, ability to relate to younger players and the staff's (that she's put together) ability to recruit may soon be making Blaine look pretty weak.
11-18-2012 06:39 PM
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Dominion Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
Interesting you mentioned St. Joes. Check out their trajectory and decision to stick with a longtime, older coach. Not saying its what we should do ... Just interesting. They climbed to No. 1 in the country; then slipped big in the next few recruiting cycles, and seemed to make another turn after sticking it out.
11-18-2012 06:47 PM
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Post: #24
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
(11-18-2012 06:47 PM)Dominion Wrote:  Interesting you mentioned St. Joes. Check out their trajectory and decision to stick with a longtime, older coach. Not saying its what we should do ... Just interesting. They climbed to No. 1 in the country; then slipped big in the next few recruiting cycles, and seemed to make another turn after sticking it out.

Yeah, and before the Notre Dame game last week, I don't think I had seen a single St. Joe's game in five years. They have never been consistently good and that is probably why I turned to ODU hoops in the first place, aside from location. Now I am older with a good job and a family so my time is precious and I live on the Peninsula. I will always follow ODU, but I don't know how many games I'll be attending if we are entering seasons with expectations of mediocrity. I do have season tickets this year so I'll ride out the season, but I doubt I'll be getting them next year if it is status quo. I'd imagine I'll be able to walk up to the ticket window 5 minutes before tip off to see whatever game I want anyway, particularly considering VCU and Richmond will be on the road. I doubt we get a single sellout.
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2012 08:14 PM by EverRespect.)
11-18-2012 08:11 PM
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Dominion Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
Good point on the ticket availability next year. There will be plenty of seats for those exciting UTSA, Tulane etc conference games. Ick.
11-18-2012 08:33 PM
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Razor Ramon Monarch Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
I'll always support ODU.....I'll still come to the game and root for us to win.

But I've played basketball my entire life and I recognize good basketball and bad basketball when I see it.

Blaine Taylor is a very good defensive coach. He teaches his guys how to properly play multiple defenses including man to man, a matchup zone and different styles of zone with different players up top (he' used Nick Wright up top in a 3-2 zone before along with Bazemore and James, giving us a fast, long armed perimeter defense). He teaches our players how to be in the proper position to get offensive rebounds off of missed shots, he teaches guys how to box out and overall, he knows his defensive basketball.

However, his offensive "sets" are just flat out terrible. They always have been and always will be. We scored so many buckets off of offensive rebounds and putbacks or through second chance points over the years it boggles the mind. But the primary plays he runs, or really, the lack thereof, are just flat out not good enough.

And in today's college game, you cannot get big time recruits to come play at a school where you are forced to redshirt and play in rock fights. Anyone over a 2 star player probably thinks they can make the NBA (although for about 95% of them at least that never happens), but at 18 years old you can't tell them that.

So the book is out on Blaine. Kids know that playing in his system is not going to get you an NBA look. Bazemore only got to the NBA because with that ridiculous wingspan, jumping ability and freak athleticism, someone was willing to take a chance on him as a shutdown defender. He certainly didn't get there because of his offensive ability.

Even in his senior year, when he was the go to guy every single freaking game, surround by very little other offensive talent, which jet fast moves, outside shooting ability and the ability to go to the rim and attack all day long, he still only managed 15 points a game and shot 40% from the field.

Not even remotely good enough for a player as dynamic as him. On any real team he would have averaged 20 a game. At VCU he might have averaged 25 a game. In fact, I'm almost 100% sure his 15 a game was the most anyone has averaged a game at ODU under Taylor, including both Loughton and Lee.....which is absolutely pathetic when you stop and think about it.

Ill never forget the game where Baze went for 37 and 12 against freaking Drexel's defense last year....he was simply unstoppable. But he could never do that consistently because he played in such a crappy offensive system.

And guess what guys, that is NEVER going to change. We are a rock fight basketball team under Blaine. In fact, he seems to take pride in that. And yeah, it may have won us a few conference titles......but it hasn't had much success in the NCAA tourney and outside of a few upset wins over Georgetown (who was just a perfect matchup for our style of play), Blaine has really never beaten the creme de la creme of the top tier teams we have played. We've come close a couple times (Wisconsin, Michigan State, Baylor, Butler, Mizzou at home) but we never can pull off that one big upset against a Princeton offense style team (Richmond, Georgetown etc.) Notre Dame was ok, but let's face it, they were VERY overrated that year. They were 23-12 that year and 10-8 in the Big East. Not exactly a powerhouse team. And we BARELY beat them in that game.

But regardless, the point stands......big time players don't want to come play for Blaine. He hasn't hit on any diamonds in the rough since Bazemore and because of that, the program is absolutely falling apart. VCU hasn't had this problem. GMU had a down year but nothing anywhere near as bad as what we are seeing right now.

Hewitt and Smart are coaching and recruiting circles around Blaine and that is absolutely an indisputable fact. We will having a losing record this year and the following year looks to be even worse. Bring in fresh blood (like we did with Barefoot), start competing for bigger 757 recruits from our own backyard (not a 6"1 point guard from Hampton average 9 points a game in high school) and hope the program turns around soon.

Shaka Smart went to the Final 4 in only his second year. New blood can be very good for a program. Blaine has had his chance to achieve success and get us over the mountain. He simply hasn't done it. He's had some good years and he's had some stinkers (I'll still never understand how that 05-06 team didn't even make it to the NCAA tourney with Loughton and Hunter as seniors and Williamson, Dahi and VV as juniors with Brian Henderson and John Adams off the bench or last years team barely sneaking into the CIT) but all that pails in comparison to the depths we are currently at.

And there is no real end in sight. We aren't getting that much better this year. Our big men our soft and our guards just cannot shoot the ball ( two games with zero three pointers in the first 4 games of the season?????). Still bad FT shooting and no dominating offensive rebounding to cover up Blaine's poor offensive sets.

Let's look elsewhere. Butler had a good coach in Thad Motta who left and I believe Lickliter took over and then that eventually lead them to Brad Stevens. VCU had Capel who left who led to Grant which eventually lead to Shaka Smart. GMU had Laranagga who left and has handed over the reigns to Hewitt who is landing some BIG TIME recruits in Fairfax.

New blood can be VERY good for a program. Getting a young energetic coach, like a Smart or Barefoot is absolutely the direction ODU needs to take. We need to take advantage of the talent we have in our own backyard and get some of these guys in here and become a real mid major powerhouse.

With as much money and dedication as there is for ODU basketball (far more than Butler, VCU or GMU in terms of money spent on an arena, endowed scholarships, basketball practice facility, what we can afford to pay our coach, season ticket holders, monetary donations etc.) there is zero reason we shouldn't be reloading just like VCU and GMU are doing.

This season is going to be spectacularly bad for ODU. And there is no real help or relief on the horizon with zero frontcourt coming back next year. Blaine has put us in this mess with his piss poor recruiting over the last couple years. Let's go in a new direction and find someone who can sell this program to two three and maybe even a 4 star recruit every now and again instead of projects and guys that Radford was "considering offering too". We should expect better and we simply aren't getting it.

There is an entire thread about the game atmosphere at ODU sucking. Ummmmm, there is a reason for that.....it's because we play piss poor, unattractive and very unexciting basketball. Get a brand new coach with an entirely different philosophy in here and watch the ODU crowd come to life! Our football crowd is one of the best in FCS because of the style of offensive we play which is high speed, in your face, up tempo football where we rack up the points. That is what fans want to see and the type of system players want to play in.

Blaine Taylor sets the game of basketball back 70 years every time his team takes the court. Our offense is slow, predictable, boring and good, top notch players just do not want to play in it. Get a young coach with a better style of play and we will see an uptick in enthusiasm and we may just eventually might be able to make it out of the second freaking round for once in our history.

Come on guys, I know a lot of you are loyal to Taylor and love the guy, but deep down you know I am right. He's let the program slip to drastic levels and the recruiting is just flat out shameful lately. Mitchell, Key and Pimentel all being gone in onr year really should be the straw that broke the camels back.

Either that or the losing season we are about to put together this year followed up by the losing season we put together next year in conference USA. But hopefully it doesn't get to that and he is gone after this year.
11-19-2012 04:17 AM
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MONARCHSWIN Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
RRM - love the passion, but you have got to learn to compose shorter posts. I don't have the time...
03-yawn
11-19-2012 06:39 AM
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Dominion Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
Lots of good points ... One reality check: with football, the resources for basketball are good, but they can't be AS good as you assert. There's not a lot of extra cash laying around. we're not going to buy out contracts and come up with anything like Shaka Smart and Brad Stevens money. We just made a football move that has made everything about our FB infrastructure obsolete (from salaries to facilities). I remember RR being pumped about the upgrade, like me. But, this is the reality of it. I don't like the state of basketball either; but I don't see us firing Blaine.
11-19-2012 07:55 AM
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Post: #29
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
(11-19-2012 06:39 AM)MONARCHSWIN Wrote:  RRM - love the passion, but you have got to learn to compose shorter posts. I don't have the time...
03-yawn


Not so. That was a masterful post, Razor. Well-written, well-supported, entirely on point and for once not over-the-top.

I don't agree with your conclusion that we as fans, after just 3 games, ought to be vocally calling for the sacking of Coach Taylor. But I do recognize good, written work when I see it. Well done.
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2012 09:50 AM by AdoptedMonarch.)
11-19-2012 08:13 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
(11-19-2012 07:55 AM)Dominion Wrote:  Lots of good points ... One reality check: with football, the resources for basketball are good, but they can't be AS good as you assert. There's not a lot of extra cash laying around. we're not going to buy out contracts and come up with anything like Shaka Smart and Brad Stevens money. We just made a football move that has made everything about our FB infrastructure obsolete (from salaries to facilities). I remember RR being pumped about the upgrade, like me. But, this is the reality of it. I don't like the state of basketball either; but I don't see us firing Blaine.

Agreed, but Shaka has been to a Final Four and Stevens has been to 2 national championship games. If we hire someone at around what we pay Taylor and they turn around with that kind of success, then maybe we look at shelling out that kind of salary (the money would be there). But, yeah, you earn it first.
11-19-2012 08:54 AM
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ODUsmitty Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
Just for everyone's edification, I accidentally deleted a thread about incoming recruits when I deleted the first post (took everything else with it..), as I felt it was overly critical of kids that have never worn an ODU uniform. I felt that they deserve the right to enter the program before passing judgement upon them, and as they, friends, and family read these boards, that is not the first impression I wanted them to get from our fanbase.

That being said, the same points can and are being made in this thread about our coaching staff's ability to recruit. They ARE fair game, as long as AUP rules are not violated. This is a good, and probably needed, discussion. Thanks to everyone for doing it the right way.
11-19-2012 09:08 AM
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ODU Hugh Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
I love and appreciate what Blaine has done for ODU, but I'm open to a change to be entirely honest. Hell, it would be refreshing if only to see a new style of play out on the court. If the administration decides to ride this out and see what Blaine is able to do with this recruiting class, I'll be right there to support the team. But if they were to decide that it was time for something new, I wouldn't shed any tears. Besides, switching conferences is about as good a justification for switching coaches there is. ODU would be a very attractive job if it were to open up.
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2012 10:22 AM by ODU Hugh.)
11-19-2012 10:20 AM
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Tbac3 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
I struggle with this thread because I can see both sides of this argument. On the one side a new, fresh coaching change CAN do wonders for a program. But suppose the change doesn't bring about the results on a long term basis (which happens more regularly than a skyrocketing program). On the other hand, if we stick with what we have it is a known that we will play a certain way but will usually win games, be competitive and occasionally rise to NCAA tournament play. Keep up the discussion but stop bashing the kids. They are playing as hard as they can. No one wants to lose. Remember that we have 7 new players and we have had our opportunities to win every game. Calm down and support your team.
11-19-2012 10:44 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
(11-19-2012 10:44 AM)Tbac3 Wrote:  I struggle with this thread because I can see both sides of this argument. On the one side a new, fresh coaching change CAN do wonders for a program. But suppose the change doesn't bring about the results on a long term basis (which happens more regularly than a skyrocketing program). On the other hand, if we stick with what we have it is a known that we will play a certain way but will usually win games, be competitive and occasionally rise to NCAA tournament play. Keep up the discussion but stop bashing the kids. They are playing as hard as they can. No one wants to lose. Remember that we have 7 new players and we have had our opportunities to win every game. Calm down and support your team.

I used to take that line of thinking as recently as last year. However, I see little risk anymore. This program is going down the toilet with Taylor and co. The fire just isn't there anymore IMO. I'd rather try something new before we end up UNCW, if we aren't there already. It will be interesting to see if we can pull out the W against VMI (I can't believe I am saying this). We are going to have to score a lot of points.
11-19-2012 10:51 AM
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mac Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
Here's the way I see it.

Folks, you got $716,000? Plus another $716,000 ? The man has two years left on his contract, ODU is not gonna buy him out this year. Not happening no matter how many reasons you have, imo of course.
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2012 11:35 AM by mac.)
11-19-2012 11:34 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
(11-19-2012 11:34 AM)mac Wrote:  Here's the way I see it.

Folks, you got $716,000? Plus another $716,000 ? The man has two years left on his contract, ODU is not gonna buy him out this year. Not happening no matter how many reasons you have, imo of course.

I believe the only thing we would owe him is the money the University pays him, which is somewhere in the neighborhood of $200k. The rest of his income (the vast majority of it) comes from the private ODUAF. I can't say I have read his contract, but I doubt the University can bind the ODUAF.
11-19-2012 11:55 AM
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Post: #37
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
Guys, I'm watching the GTOWN vs Indiana game. The announcer said GTOWN starts four players 6-8 or taller... well, we start four players 5-8 or taller. LOL

Send Bigs!!!
11-20-2012 11:35 PM
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bit_9 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
Amazing game it is too! Holy cow.
11-21-2012 12:10 AM
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monarchman Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
Amazingly crooked.

Free Throws:
Indiana 19-26
Georgetown 3-4

Dickie V makes no secret who he's going for either...

It's even more of a joke of how Georgetown is not ranked.
(This post was last modified: 11-21-2012 12:15 AM by monarchman.)
11-21-2012 12:14 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Fire Blaine Taylor
(11-21-2012 12:14 AM)monarchman Wrote:  Amazingly crooked.

Free Throws:
Indiana 19-26
Georgetown 3-4

Dickie V makes no secret who he's going for either...

It's even more of a joke of how Georgetown is not ranked.

He sounds like the announcers for our game against JMU =] I agree about them not being ranked.
11-21-2012 12:20 AM
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