(10-22-2012 04:28 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-22-2012 01:56 AM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  What don't some of you get? Everybody wants to play home games that will sell tickets and bring in money. If they go on the road, they want to get paid (in some combination of cash or return games to sell tickets and make money). The primary driver was, is and will continue to be money. OSU and similar schools with huge profitable full stadiums can just buy games. UC (with a small stadium lacking premium seating like boxes) doesn't make enough at a home game to just buy home games. The conference changes further complicated our options. We are hardly alone even among BCS schools. Take a look at who else has had/has to visit Toledo (often with similar success):

Quote:In the 15-year existence of the BCS, which will dissolve after the 2013 season, the Rockets have hosted a BCS program in 10 seasons. They have played Temple twice — during the Owls’ first go-round in the Big East — Syracuse, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Kansas, Purdue, Colorado, and Arizona.

The most notable guests, one might suggest, have yet to come. Navy, which will eventually join the Big East, arrives in 2013, and Missouri of the Southeastern Conference will visit a year later. Highlighting the 2015 home schedule are games versus the Atlantic Coast Conference’s Miami (Fla.), and the Big 12’s Iowa State. With the exception of Navy, which voided its home game in 2015 with Toledo to accommodate its league schedule, the Rockets are contractually obligated to play on the road at each school.

Don't forget OSU did a 1-1 with UT. The UT homegame was a neutral site
with the Rockets making $4 mil in Beckman's first year. The game in Columbus the Rockets lost by 5 in Beckman's 3rd year.

Exactly what I was getting at. The only issue for me besides not winning was TV but that is ESPN/MAC not UC.

UC should be playing Ohio, Miami, and Toledo out of the MAC and Marshall from C-USA those are solid programs that will help your SOS versus, provide easy road trips, and help fill your stadium when you play them at home.

Look at the 2013 schedule
Purdue (Home)
Northwestern State (Home)
Illinois (Away)
Miami (Away)
8 Big East games

This is a great schedule for UC. You have an FCS game, a Big Ten team at home, and two regional road trips.

2014
Toledo (Home)
Miami (Home)
Stony Brook (Home)
Ohio State (Away)
8 Big East Games.

Two regional home games against Ohio schools plus an FCS game. An easy road trip to Ohio State for marquee national game. A fan friendly and football friendly schedule again.

For me the ideal mix in the non-conference schedule will have Ohio MAC teams mixed in regional Big Ten teams or a national spotlight game.

I don't want to play MAC scools....why? Perception.

Case in point...I have people here in Missouri emailing and texting me all weekend saying things like, "How the hell did you lose to TOLEDO?!?". And, "Toledo?? Is that FBS?" Granted, Im in SW Missouri, but the point is, people either think very lowly of Toledo (MAC teams in general) or have never heard of them around here. Now, when we beat Va. Tech, these same people said, "Great win" even though it probably really wasn't.

(10-22-2012 07:12 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(10-21-2012 10:23 PM)emanoh Wrote:  Is it possible you ran into a good Toledo team and got beat? Would you rather schedule a game with Northwest Beauty Academy for an easy home win. Toledo is in the same boat as far as scheduling. Toledo and Cincy should be playing every couple of years. Your conference is a shell of it's former self, maybe an invite from a stable conf like the MAC would help.

MAC is awful

Granted, the MAC has some very competitive teams this year. The reason it will always be a third tier conference is simple: money. Coaches from MAC winning programs will flee like rats from sinking ships. No program really sustains success long-term because there isn't sufficient revenue from TV/ticket sales to pay rising coaches to stay. It's easy to take cheap shots at the Big East after all the recent changes but at the end of the day, the new TV deal will produce multiples of revenue compared with the MAC;the current deal already does by the way. The Big East brand is still powerful having produced multiple national champs in football and men's and women's basketball and will have more of a national presence than ever before with the addition of the western schools. Bottom line: the MAC will never "compete" with the Big East for revenue, prestige and national exposure; it's a regional conference composed of small media market teams with limited fan interest.

Why play home and home? Because UC does not have much choice. They need to schedule somebody. If UC can't beat a MAC school at their place then that's a problem.

Big Ten isn't lining up to schedule us, and neither is the ACC or SEC.

That's why.

(10-22-2012 07:27 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I don't want to play MAC scools....why? Perception.

Case in point...I have people here in Missouri emailing and texting me all weekend saying things like, "How the hell did you lose to TOLEDO?!?". And, "Toledo?? Is that FBS?" Granted, Im in SW Missouri, but the point is, people either think very lowly of Toledo (MAC teams in general) or have never heard of them around here. Now, when we beat Va. Tech, these same people said, "Great win" even though it probably really wasn't.

Tell them to hold that thought until 2014 when Missouri goes to play at (drumroll....) Toledo - as highlighted in the section I just posted above. If Toledo holds their coach and they keep improving, they might find themselves eating some serious crow.

Besides, just declaring "I don't want to play MAC schools" is kind of pointless. The problem is money as has been noted many times and you haven't explained exactly how UC is supposed to work around that.

Keep it classy Cincinnati!!!

Ron Burgundy 2

The MAC holds their own year to year. Everyone's talent goes up and down each year, but off the top of my head, the MAC has wins over Penn State, Iowa, Indiana, Kansas, Connecticut and Marshall while holding our own with good Big Ten teams and only losing by single digits and it took a Pac 12 team overtime to beat Toledo. One of our worst teams just beat Army, and some of our middling teams thrashed Army who has flirted with B-East membership.

We are all fighting for respect after the big four of SEC, Big 12, Big 12 and Pac 12. We are all dilusional if we think a national championship is coming to Buffalo or Temple. Even more excuse for a playoff vs BCS. If a Cincy or Toledo team thinks they can compete, lets lace them up in a playoff and see how far we get. Good luck with the rest of your season, we'll be rooting for you.

(10-22-2012 09:03 AM)emanoh Wrote:  The MAC holds their own year to year. Everyone's talent goes up and down each year, but off the top of my head, the MAC has wins over Penn State, Iowa, Indiana, Kansas, Connecticut and Marshall while holding our own with good Big Ten teams and only losing by single digits and it took a Pac 12 team overtime to beat Toledo. One of our worst teams just beat Army, and some of our middling teams thrashed Army who has flirted with B-East membership.

We are all fighting for respect after the big four of SEC, Big 12, Big 12 and Pac 12. We are all dilusional if we think a national championship is coming to Buffalo or Temple. Even more excuse for a playoff vs BCS. If a Cincy or Toledo team thinks they can compete, lets lace them up in a playoff and see how far we get. Good luck with the rest of your season, we'll be rooting for you.

Agree with a playoff. Toledo and Ohio should have chance. So should Cincinnati who should be focused on conference play. There a lot of bad MAC teams but the top of most conferences have some pretty good teams. Get over the name of the school and watch the teams play.

We have to play a couple MAc team as we cannot afford to not have a bus trip or two each year for an away game. Playing At Miami, Toledo, Ohio U, BG etc is not a bad deal. When all the Big eats road games wil be flights but UL we have to have these even when it becomes hard to live with when we have an occasional loss. Toledo is a very good team that would be mid level Big East for sure this year. The UC travel crowd was very good to Toledo and would be to any of these 4 MAc Schools listed. Remember there will be very few road trips that most Uc fans can go to in the future. The next two years schedules look good with easy road trips to Illinois, Miami, OSU etc. We just wil have to travel so far in conference when you lose Pitt and WVu which were both easy bus team trips.

If UC wants to be a big time program, we need to go into a Toledo and beat them. Toledo is a good program this year and they were last year too. I think this is the difference between UC and say Boise/TCU. Boise and TCU have gone on the road to environments, such as Toledo, and beat them. UC needs to consistently accomplish the same feat.

I agree with many, that playing a MAC team on the road does not gain one accolades on the national stage for winning, a PR disaster for losing, and brings no substantial revenue. However, its better than playing a Del State or Forham. In the end UC's coaches need to not make excuses and just win these games. One would think a huge UC victory in Northern Ohio would help recruiting and expose individuals to the UC brand.

I commend the UC fans, who made the trip. The UC crowd/support was great. I commend Toledo for playing aggressive from start to finish. Nice offense. Good win for you guys. Is that classy enough for you IamN2daRockets? Act as if you have been there before.

Why play home & home with MAC schools?

Because UC had to quickly find a game to schedule with the fast departures of WVU and TCU. That is it.

(10-22-2012 10:33 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Why play home & home with MAC schools?

Because UC had to quickly find a game to schedule with the fast departures of WVU and TCU. That is it.

I thought D State and Fordham were the reasons for WVU/TCU? Wasn't Toledo scheduled for their departures?

(10-22-2012 10:30 AM)bearcatmill Wrote:  If UC wants to be a big time program, we need to go into a Toledo and beat them. Toledo is a good program this year and they were last year too. I think this is the difference between UC and say Boise/TCU. Boise and TCU have gone on the road to environments, such as Toledo, and beat them. UC needs to consistently accomplish the same feat.

I agree with many, that playing a MAC team on the road does not gain one accolades on the national stage for winning, a PR disaster for losing, and brings no substantial revenue. However, its better than playing a Del State or Forham. In the end UC's coaches need to not make excuses and just win these games. One would think a huge UC victory in Northern Ohio would help recruiting and expose individuals to the UC brand.

I commend the UC fans, who made the trip. The UC crowd/support was great. I commend Toledo for playing aggressive from start to finish. Nice offense. Good win for you guys. Is that classy enough for you IamN2daRockets? Act as if you have been there before.

No.

If UC wants to be a "big time" school, they need to buy games like these out and refuse to schedule them in the future. If that's an issue of money, UCs alums and donor base need to step up to the plate and provide the funding for the program that would allow them to do such things. Big time programs don't take their show on the road to nowhereville for a game that doesn't even get televised.

Butch Jones, through no fault of his own, had to take his squad on the road to play a "home" game against V-Tech in their back yard and then on a bus to Toledo to play against an amped-up MAC school that had circled this game as soon as the schedule was announced. His team was exposed twice, in the same year, because the AD needed cash for capital projects and took a payday for one game and refused to pay out to keep another game at Nippert.

That's life at UC. That's mid-major life. That's why, when a bigger school comes calling, he'll be out the door even if UC can match the zeroes on the contract.

That's what needs to change if UC has delusions of being something more than they are right now.

(10-22-2012 07:24 AM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  Exactly what I was getting at. The only issue for me besides not winning was TV but that is ESPN/MAC not UC.

Exactly right. Up until the point Toledo dared to ask ESPN to finally decide on a start time, the game was in contention to be on any their networks, including ESPN or ESPN2. Did you notice how late the start time was announced?

It's ridiculous that they turfed the game to internet only. We were as upset as you were.

(10-21-2012 07:23 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  I would rather play Miami, Ohio, Toledo, Akron, and Kent State than FCS games. The TV issue is the only real argument that can be made. Maybe make nuetral site games in Cleveland so they could part of the Big East deal or get a deal where TV is guaranteed.

Ohio has Kansas coming in latter this decade and Toledo will host Navy, Missouri, Miami Florida, and Iowa State over the handful of years.

My view is win the games and don't be afraid of anybody.

If Toledo can get Kansas, Missouri, Miami Florida, Iowa St why is the Babcock can't schedule games like that for UC. You really just made my point.

Very simple... those schools are scared of UC. They thought they had an easy win in Toledo (which obviously is not true).

(10-22-2012 10:41 AM)#41 Wrote:  

(10-22-2012 10:30 AM)bearcatmill Wrote:  If UC wants to be a big time program, we need to go into a Toledo and beat them. Toledo is a good program this year and they were last year too. I think this is the difference between UC and say Boise/TCU. Boise and TCU have gone on the road to environments, such as Toledo, and beat them. UC needs to consistently accomplish the same feat.

I agree with many, that playing a MAC team on the road does not gain one accolades on the national stage for winning, a PR disaster for losing, and brings no substantial revenue. However, its better than playing a Del State or Forham. In the end UC's coaches need to not make excuses and just win these games. One would think a huge UC victory in Northern Ohio would help recruiting and expose individuals to the UC brand.

I commend the UC fans, who made the trip. The UC crowd/support was great. I commend Toledo for playing aggressive from start to finish. Nice offense. Good win for you guys. Is that classy enough for you IamN2daRockets? Act as if you have been there before.

No.

If UC wants to be a "big time" school, they need to buy games like these out and refuse to schedule them in the future. If that's an issue of money, UCs alums and donor base need to step up to the plate and provide the funding for the program that would allow them to do such things. Big time programs don't take their show on the road to nowhereville for a game that doesn't even get televised.

Butch Jones, through no fault of his own, had to take his squad on the road to play a "home" game against V-Tech in their back yard and then on a bus to Toledo to play against an amped-up MAC school that had circled this game as soon as the schedule was announced. His team was exposed twice, in the same year, because the AD needed cash for capital projects and took a payday for one game and refused to pay out to keep another game at Nippert.

That's life at UC. That's mid-major life. That's why, when a bigger school comes calling, he'll be out the door even if UC can match the zeroes on the contract.

That's what needs to change if UC has delusions of being something more than they are right now.

Please do not think I was advocating the continued scheduling of these types of games. However, on the road to being a "big time" program - you will be faced with one or two of these games. When this take place you need to win the game - plain and simple.

When a bigger program comes calling Butch will not leave b/c scheduling. There will be other reasons, such as attendance and support.

(10-22-2012 07:39 AM)indycat Wrote:  Granted, the MAC has some very competitive teams this year. The reason it will always be a third tier conference is simple: money. Coaches from MAC winning programs will flee like rats from sinking ships. No program really sustains success long-term because there isn't sufficient revenue from TV/ticket sales to pay rising coaches to stay.
...
Bottom line: the MAC will never "compete" with the Big East for revenue, prestige and national exposure; it's a regional conference composed of small media market teams with limited fan interest.

Hard to argue with any of that.

However, the fact that schools like Toledo have less money does not preclude being able to, frequently but inconsistently, field a team with competitive talent and coaching that can go toe-to-toe with all but the top 10 or 15 ranked teams in the country. Unlike gluttons like Zero State, we have learned to do more with less resources. Never forget that it wasn't long ago that UC was in the same position, languishing in C-USA. And ask yourself if being in the Big East really makes the folks in Columbus think anything more of you than they did back then.

(10-22-2012 10:47 AM)kyucat Wrote:  

(10-21-2012 07:23 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  I would rather play Miami, Ohio, Toledo, Akron, and Kent State than FCS games. The TV issue is the only real argument that can be made. Maybe make nuetral site games in Cleveland so they could part of the Big East deal or get a deal where TV is guaranteed.

Ohio has Kansas coming in latter this decade and Toledo will host Navy, Missouri, Miami Florida, and Iowa State over the handful of years.

My view is win the games and don't be afraid of anybody.

If Toledo can get Kansas, Missouri, Miami Florida, Iowa St why is the Babcock can't schedule games like that for UC. You really just made my point.

It has nothing to do with being scared of UC. Our athletic director, Mike O'Brien, is very well respected among other ADs and has great connections among the BCS conferences. It's all who you know.