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Game #6 - at San Diego L 0-44 (0-3, 1-5)
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OrangeCamel Offline
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Exclamation Game #6 - at San Diego L 0-44 (0-3, 1-5)
After 4 1/2 years, the Camels finally make their first trip to California to play the Toreros.

Good for Campbell: Coming off a bye week.
Bad for Campbell: Preseason PFL favorite USD will look to bounce back after last week's loss at Drake.
(This post was last modified: 10-14-2012 08:39 AM by OrangeCamel.)
10-11-2012 11:11 AM
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camelfan Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego
It is gonna be bad.
10-12-2012 02:59 PM
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wacamel Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego
Realistically, CU will probably take a loss, BUT, Wolf will be good enough to lead us to a couple of TD's and hopefully the extra week of preparation will have the D a little better than the past couple of conference games.

Closer than many may think.

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10-13-2012 02:38 PM
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wacamel Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego
Wrong again.
10-13-2012 07:24 PM
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RedCamel Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego
Did anybody see this game? What happened? Is it that San Diego is that much better than we are and has an amazing defense? I just don't understand how we can only muster 79 yards of total offense. I understand there have been too many injuries this year but this game was worse than when we played them in year one.
10-14-2012 04:39 AM
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OrangeCamel Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego L 0-44 (0-3, 1-5)
Link to San Diego Union-Tribune story...

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/oct/...smans-fou/
10-14-2012 07:39 PM
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camelfan Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego L 0-44 (0-3, 1-5)
Look the team just sucks this year. I went to the first game and told everyone on this board how bad we were gonna be.

Then I get critized for being negative and have a few folks explain what all the problems are. Can't block, can't tackle, can't defend the pass, can't run the ball and the our QB who is a good passer gets hurt so now we can't do anything.

We can't compete right now. We need to restart the football program. We will soon get the stadium finished and we need a new coaching staff to lead us in a little better direction. What we have right now is just not working. We need to make some changes soon.

When we are posting on FB that the Camels went to the zoo and toured part of San Diego as the story you know the football is bad.

Good News - Basketball season starts Nov 1.
10-15-2012 10:23 AM
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camelfan Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego
(10-14-2012 04:39 AM)RedCamel Wrote:  Did anybody see this game? What happened? Is it that San Diego is that much better than we are and has an amazing defense? I just don't understand how we can only muster 79 yards of total offense. I understand there have been too many injuries this year but this game was worse than when we played them in year one.


I agree. Once Braden went down we are worse than year one. I think I said that after the second game and was scolded by Statman for my statement.
10-15-2012 10:25 AM
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wacamel Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego L 0-44 (0-3, 1-5)
Up until now, our conference losses have come against teams who are better than us. More experienced, less injured, better teams. Beginning with this weekend, we need to show a competitiveness that has been missing. I'm not saying that we should be expected to win out, but we must compete. No more excuses.

244 in Sagarin is difficult to accept.
10-15-2012 09:03 PM
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Statman101 Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego L 0-44 (0-3, 1-5)
I am in no way scolding anyone. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, I just was putting out reasons and numbers as to why I think you are overstating something.

This team is not good and I have NEVER disputed that fact. The reasons for why I think Campbell football has struggled and for the most part always will struggle I have already made. The biggest is not coaching (Because every program has hired a coach who has been fired for not being good enough somewhere). It is simply talent. The talent pool in the state of NC is so diluted because of the amount of schools in what I wouldn't call the most talent rich state. Campbell offers NO scholarships and has NO other drawing factors to its area for even the kid who is on the fence about walking on at a scholarship program or playing at a non-scholarship program.

Look at Davidson for example. They are 0-6 this season. Davidson's recruiting pool is the same and they have struggled in this league for years.

My whole thing is before you say..."Lets fire the coach! It will fix everything. You have to ask yourself...will it really fix it or do we need to look at some other factors first?" I say look at the other factors because I think it far outweighs the coaching at this point.

I will gladly admit when I am wrong but the 2008 team scored 35 points (ONLY 28 offensive) in its 8 DI games (14 against Valpo) and was shut out 4 times. This team has already scored 35 points against DI teams in 4 games with a back-up QB and against a much tougher schedule. The 2008 team averaged 4.4 points per game (only 3.5 if you take out the KR TD vs. Valpo) in the league and only 1.8 yards per carry. The 2008 team couldn't get a first down on offense.

Again, this team is NOT good, but that 2008 team had no hope of even scoring points. This team can win a game or two before the year is out especially with 0-6 Davidson and Valpo still left on the schedule.

As for the Sagrin, it doesn't mean anything at our level. Even the best team most years in the PFL is still in the 200's (By the end of the year).
(This post was last modified: 10-16-2012 10:32 AM by Statman101.)
10-16-2012 10:28 AM
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wacamel Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego L 0-44 (0-3, 1-5)
(10-16-2012 10:28 AM)Statman101 Wrote:  I am in no way scolding anyone. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, I just was putting out reasons and numbers as to why I think you are overstating something.

This team is not good and I have NEVER disputed that fact. The reasons for why I think Campbell football has struggled and for the most part always will struggle I have already made. The biggest is not coaching (Because every program has hired a coach who has been fired for not being good enough somewhere). It is simply talent. The talent pool in the state of NC is so diluted because of the amount of schools in what I wouldn't call the most talent rich state. Campbell offers NO scholarships and has NO other drawing factors to its area for even the kid who is on the fence about walking on at a scholarship program or playing at a non-scholarship program.

Look at Davidson for example. They are 0-6 this season. Davidson's recruiting pool is the same and they have struggled in this league for years.

My whole thing is before you say..."Lets fire the coach! It will fix everything. You have to ask yourself...will it really fix it or do we need to look at some other factors first?" I say look at the other factors because I think it far outweighs the coaching at this point.

I will gladly admit when I am wrong but the 2008 team scored 35 points (ONLY 28 offensive) in its 8 DI games (14 against Valpo) and was shut out 4 times. This team has already scored 35 points against DI teams in 4 games with a back-up QB and against a much tougher schedule. The 2008 team averaged 4.4 points per game (only 3.5 if you take out the KR TD vs. Valpo) in the league and only 1.8 yards per carry. The 2008 team couldn't get a first down on offense.

Again, this team is NOT good, but that 2008 team had no hope of even scoring points. This team can win a game or two before the year is out especially with 0-6 Davidson and Valpo still left on the schedule.

As for the Sagrin, it doesn't mean anything at our level. Even the best team most years in the PFL is still in the 200's (By the end of the year).

So do you think that this pattern of building and then rebuilding a team every 3-4 years will continue, or do ever see us breaking out of this cycle and being able to compete for a PFL championship? What can we do different to keep this pattern from reoccurring or is the diluted talent pool and the other reasons you mentioned too much for a non-scholarship program like Campbell to overcome?
10-16-2012 09:04 PM
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Statman101 Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego L 0-44 (0-3, 1-5)
I think you will see more ups and downs within the actual PFL in a program like Campbell's than you will a Dayton, Jacksonville, or San Diego. I believe there are also alot of on-campus issues (rules and regulations) that go into this as well, but personally don't know of any at this point. Ohio, Florida and San Diego have such a DEPTH of talent because of shear numbers that they will be better than most year in and year out. I think Campbell can be competitive most years (This year is tough and I explain my reasoning later.).

The overall problem is North Carolina is at or near the top for the total number of scholarship programs (DI, DII or NAIA) in the country but near the middle in terms of talent produced. That is not to mention the programs in VA, SC and TN that poach even the mid-level talent out of the state. Look at the scholarship programs who struggle in this state currently...Western Carolina (1-6), Brevard (1-6), Catawba (3-4), Elon (2-4), and Gardner-Webb (1-5). Those records from programs who can offer scholarships. I picked those teams because they play a majority of their schedule out of the state and for the most part, CU is picking up what little talent there is left AFTER those schools. There are exceptions, but mainly the rule is...if the kid gets athletic scholarship monies...he will probably take it.

One solution in my mind is out of state recruiting (FL, GA, etc.) and Campbell does some of that, but when you start going away from campus without athletic aid on a more consistent basis, then attrition becomes a MUCH BIGGER issue. The reason JU and Dayton in particular are always successful is because they can drive 20 minutes, recruit a kid, sign a kid, play a kid, and the kid never leaves home. That said kid is a darn good player too. Campbell can't say the same in my mind.

Finally, Campbell's biggest issue this season is that many fans only saw one graduating class of seniors a year ago, but really it graduated two. That entire first seasons recruiting class (Milton Brown, Carl Smith, etc.) redshirted and then another entire class of freshmen were added to the mix. I dare anyone to take two entire recruiting classes off the top of any team and see what you end up with. Especially a recruiting class that had started for FOUR years. I personally think it will even out in the end, but this year was going to be especially tough regardless because of the gap in experience and because of the sheer numbers lost from the previous year.

I want to say, I am in no way DOWN on this program and its future. All I am saying is that the challenges it faces are NOT just as black and white as the coach's are terrible. As described, I think in the long run its a talent issue for the entire state of NC that can be overcome.
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2012 09:33 AM by Statman101.)
10-17-2012 09:31 AM
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wacamel Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego L 0-44 (0-3, 1-5)
(10-17-2012 09:31 AM)Statman101 Wrote:  I think you will see more ups and downs within the actual PFL in a program like Campbell's than you will a Dayton, Jacksonville, or San Diego. I believe there are also alot of on-campus issues (rules and regulations) that go into this as well, but personally don't know of any at this point. Ohio, Florida and San Diego have such a DEPTH of talent because of shear numbers that they will be better than most year in and year out. I think Campbell can be competitive most years (This year is tough and I explain my reasoning later.).

The overall problem is North Carolina is at or near the top for the total number of scholarship programs (DI, DII or NAIA) in the country but near the middle in terms of talent produced. That is not to mention the programs in VA, SC and TN that poach even the mid-level talent out of the state. Look at the scholarship programs who struggle in this state currently...Western Carolina (1-6), Brevard (1-6), Catawba (3-4), Elon (2-4), and Gardner-Webb (1-5). Those records from programs who can offer scholarships. I picked those teams because they play a majority of their schedule out of the state and for the most part, CU is picking up what little talent there is left AFTER those schools. There are exceptions, but mainly the rule is...if the kid gets athletic scholarship monies...he will probably take it.

One solution in my mind is out of state recruiting (FL, GA, etc.) and Campbell does some of that, but when you start going away from campus without athletic aid on a more consistent basis, then attrition becomes a MUCH BIGGER issue. The reason JU and Dayton in particular are always successful is because they can drive 20 minutes, recruit a kid, sign a kid, play a kid, and the kid never leaves home. That said kid is a darn good player too. Campbell can't say the same in my mind.

Finally, Campbell's biggest issue this season is that many fans only saw one graduating class of seniors a year ago, but really it graduated two. That entire first seasons recruiting class (Milton Brown, Carl Smith, etc.) redshirted and then another entire class of freshmen were added to the mix. I dare anyone to take two entire recruiting classes off the top of any team and see what you end up with. Especially a recruiting class that had started for FOUR years. I personally think it will even out in the end, but this year was going to be especially tough regardless because of the gap in experience and because of the sheer numbers lost from the previous year.

I want to say, I am in no way DOWN on this program and its future. All I am saying is that the challenges it faces are NOT just as black and white as the coach's are terrible. As described, I think in the long run its a talent issue for the entire state of NC that can be overcome.

Good assessment and I totally agree that by graduating 2 classes at one time, along with the unexpected injuries this year, especially O-line, it's almost like starting over. We again are loaded with Freshmen and red shirt Freshman. I hope that we can somehow balance out our classes a little bit or it appears the cycle will continue.

Either way, Go Camels!
10-17-2012 05:19 PM
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camelfan Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego L 0-44 (0-3, 1-5)
Part of the coaching staff and recruiters job is to be balancing out their recruits and making sure they have players for positions and backups that are trained and ready to go into those positions.

You should have some juniors, sophmores and freshmen that are getting some reps and ready to play.

Having one marginally successful year and then three terrible years is not too good in my opinion. We got beat by San Diego last week worst than the first year we played them. Some on this board were predicting it to be a lot closer. I think my prediction was it was going to be very very bad. It was even worse than I expected. I thought we might score atleast once.

I have said since I saw them play the first game this year that we were in trouble. You can blame it on the players and you can blame it on the poor recruiting class, and you can blame it on the assistant coaches etc etc. At some point the head coach needs to take some responsibility. Who recruited the players? Who hired the assistant coaches? Who is in charge of this program?

We are still running the same defense against Drake that we have done every year and they keep marching down the field on short passes. Why in five years has this not changed? Why don't we try something else? You can't play back 10 or more yards off the ball on each play and defend a team like Drake. Why can't anyone on the coaching staff see this? If they knew what they were doing they would have made some changes or atleast tried something else even if it did not work.

The offensive line is beyond bad. They are horrible. Without a decent offensive line we will not be successful. So we graduated all the starters on the line. I did not expect the line to be as good as last year. You are telling me there are no Juniors, Sophmores or Freshmen who have been taking reps with those Seniors who can block. Because those guys don't block anybody. We are wasting our time recruiting any skill players at QB and RB if you can't protect them.
I saw Shorter's undersized defensive line beat our O-line off the ball the entire second half. I have not seen the other games but it can't be much better from the results.

How many bad season's is it going to take until some changes are made at the top? I guess according to Statman we are going to have about 3 bad seasons for every good season. I guess that is the standard we should set for ourselves. I hope that the administration, students and most of the fans will not be satisfied with that.
10-18-2012 05:04 PM
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Statman101 Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego L 0-44 (0-3, 1-5)
I am by no means saying that we should set that as a standard. I am simply pointing out why I personally feel that Campbell is in a tough situation no matter WHO the is the "man at the top."

As for taking responsibility, I don't think Dale Steele has ever NOT taken responsibility for this program. What we don't see, unless its a starter, is the attrition that takes place. You can't tell a kid, who by the way is paying $30,000 + a year, to wait three or four years (including a redshirt) before he sees significant time. He simply won't wait. That was the problem with our junior class...now senior class. There are even stories where someone is receiving tons of playing time earlier in their career and decides to leave anyways. Anyone remember Adam Elsawi? He would be a senior on this team and he started five games as a freshman. It would be nice to have a tackle who is 6-5 320 and could really play. He left because he was good and is now playing at ECU (Started several games last season).

Then you have the R. Brown's (Who didn't come back after an injury redshirt) of the world and Donte Washington (Remember the freshman that lead the league in interceptions?). It really is a tough sell (non-scholarship football) and sometimes isn't as simple as "lets fire the coach after four years."

If Coach Steele is fired, and I really hope not, and someone comes in and does a SIGNIFICANTLY better job, I will admit when I am wrong, but I personally see alot more to overcome than just a coaching scheme. By the way, didn't we just hire a new DC (from Liberty) and some new assistants?
10-19-2012 11:58 AM
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Statman101 Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego L 0-44 (0-3, 1-5)
Just to also point out. I think I differ from alot of individauls when talking about the talent that is/is not on the field. Personally, I didn't think even last year's team was overly talented. Experienced sure, but not overly talented. This again goes back to the "talent pool" that I believe is very shallow.

If you are one of 20 some odd schools in the running for what I perceive is very little in-state talent, what is left? Is it really that good? I think out of state recruiting is a must, but then I think you run the risk of losing alot more guys to attrition (home sick, better opportunities closer to home, etc.). I mean that happens at scholarship programs, but it is much easier to walk away when you, the player/family, are footing the bill than when you are getting it for free.
10-19-2012 03:23 PM
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camelfan Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego L 0-44 (0-3, 1-5)
(10-19-2012 11:58 AM)Statman101 Wrote:  I am by no means saying that we should set that as a standard. I am simply pointing out why I personally feel that Campbell is in a tough situation no matter WHO the is the "man at the top."

As for taking responsibility, I don't think Dale Steele has ever NOT taken responsibility for this program. What we don't see, unless its a starter, is the attrition that takes place. You can't tell a kid, who by the way is paying $30,000 + a year, to wait three or four years (including a redshirt) before he sees significant time. He simply won't wait. That was the problem with our junior class...now senior class. There are even stories where someone is receiving tons of playing time earlier in their career and decides to leave anyways. Anyone remember Adam Elsawi? He would be a senior on this team and he started five games as a freshman. It would be nice to have a tackle who is 6-5 320 and could really play. He left because he was good and is now playing at ECU (Started several games last season).

Then you have the R. Brown's (Who didn't come back after an injury redshirt) of the world and Donte Washington (Remember the freshman that lead the league in interceptions?). It really is a tough sell (non-scholarship football) and sometimes isn't as simple as "lets fire the coach after four years."

If Coach Steele is fired, and I really hope not, and someone comes in and does a SIGNIFICANTLY better job, I will admit when I am wrong, but I personally see alot more to overcome than just a coaching scheme. By the way, didn't we just hire a new DC (from Liberty) and some new assistants?

I guess but we are running the same pass defense that does not work. How long do you keep running something that does not work.

You do such a good job of taking up for Coach Steele. Are you on the payroll? Need to go work the the President and explain why we should give him another four years when he has been so bad at the last 4.

I just think we need to try something else because this is not working.
10-21-2012 04:49 PM
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Statman101 Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego L 0-44 (0-3, 1-5)
(10-21-2012 04:49 PM)camelfan Wrote:  
(10-19-2012 11:58 AM)Statman101 Wrote:  I am by no means saying that we should set that as a standard. I am simply pointing out why I personally feel that Campbell is in a tough situation no matter WHO the is the "man at the top."

As for taking responsibility, I don't think Dale Steele has ever NOT taken responsibility for this program. What we don't see, unless its a starter, is the attrition that takes place. You can't tell a kid, who by the way is paying $30,000 + a year, to wait three or four years (including a redshirt) before he sees significant time. He simply won't wait. That was the problem with our junior class...now senior class. There are even stories where someone is receiving tons of playing time earlier in their career and decides to leave anyways. Anyone remember Adam Elsawi? He would be a senior on this team and he started five games as a freshman. It would be nice to have a tackle who is 6-5 320 and could really play. He left because he was good and is now playing at ECU (Started several games last season).

Then you have the R. Brown's (Who didn't come back after an injury redshirt) of the world and Donte Washington (Remember the freshman that lead the league in interceptions?). It really is a tough sell (non-scholarship football) and sometimes isn't as simple as "lets fire the coach after four years."

If Coach Steele is fired, and I really hope not, and someone comes in and does a SIGNIFICANTLY better job, I will admit when I am wrong, but I personally see alot more to overcome than just a coaching scheme. By the way, didn't we just hire a new DC (from Liberty) and some new assistants?

I guess but we are running the same pass defense that does not work. How long do you keep running something that does not work.

You do such a good job of taking up for Coach Steele. Are you on the payroll? Need to go work the the President and explain why we should give him another four years when he has been so bad at the last 4.

I just think we need to try something else because this is not working.

Ha Ha Ha I wish I was on the payroll. Would be a nice little addition to my salary especially with the way our economy is running.

I personally have no clue whether he will be retained or not, but again just stating why I think its a really tough job. Personally, I just know there are alot of forces that are outside of a coach's control and personally I see that here. I view Vandy and Kentucky in the same light but just a different level or even a Kansas. Every now and again they will be better, BUT for the most part they are who they are regardless of coaching.

Thats all. I want us to win games, as everyone does, but I guess I just come from a different vantage point when I view the program. Everyone can believe what they want and I have no issues with that, but just trying to point out that there are forces sometimes a program, coach, adminstrator cannot control which effect the winning and losing.
10-22-2012 11:12 AM
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RedCamel Offline
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RE: Game #6 - at San Diego L 0-44 (0-3, 1-5)
Maybe with the auto bid to the playoffs next year it will make it a little easier to recruit and help bring some more talent to the Creek. It has to be tough to recruit a kid to the middle of no where to play football without a scholarship with essentially nothing to play for except a conference championship. The auto bid has to make it a little bit easier than it is now.
10-23-2012 09:34 PM
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