The spread sheet in the attachment shows the distances from each of the Sun Belt schools to some commonly mentioned destinations for the Sun Belt tournament. I used Slidel since it is between two commonly mentioned destinations in New Orleans and Biloxi.

I calculated two averages. The first is the average distance of all 12 future members. The second is the average of 9 members throwing out the outliers (WKU, Tx State, and FAU). UTA is arguably more of an outlier than WKU (UTA on average 179 miles further away from the destinations than WKU) but I threw out WKU to be fair and objective.

When looking at the results two destinations stand out. Birmingham and South Haven. Those two significantly reduce the average distance for all member schools and particular those schools that are not going to have to fly regardless. Those two destinations also offer major airports for the outliers to fly into.

Of those two destinations, you have Birmingham which is not a particularly attractive as a city and has an arena which is really too large for our needs. Then you have South Haven which has a size appropriate arena, Beale Street to the north, and the casinos to the south. Not my cup of tea, but what does Birmingham have?

I think South Haven is the clear compromise. No site will please everybody. But South Haven is easily the most centrally located site we could pick. Its a good fit and there is no better fit anywhere.

IMHO.


Based on average distance the sites rank like this:
1. South Haven
2. Birmingham
3. Bilioxi/New Orleans
4. Hot Springs
5. Atlanta

EDIT: I see now that you can't attach Excel files. Seriously?

I seriously like Biloxi, but we have no member schools in Mississippi.

(09-21-2012 10:53 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  The spread sheet in the attachment shows the distances from each of the Sun Belt schools to some commonly mentioned destinations for the Sun Belt tournament. I used Slidel since it is between two commonly mentioned destinations in New Orleans and Biloxi.

I calculated two averages. The first is the average distance of all 12 future members. The second is the average of 9 members throwing out the outliers (WKU, Tx State, and FAU). UTA is arguably more of an outlier than WKU (UTA on average 179 miles further away from the destinations than WKU) but I threw out WKU to be fair and objective.

When looking at the results two destinations stand out. Birmingham and South Haven. Those two significantly reduce the average distance for all member schools and particular those schools that are not going to have to fly regardless. Those two destinations also offer major airports for the outliers to fly into.

Of those two destinations, you have Birmingham which is not a particularly attractive as a city and has an arena which is really too large for our needs. Then you have South Haven which has a size appropriate arena, Beale Street to the north, and the casinos to the south. Not my cup of tea, but what does Birmingham have?

I think South Haven is the clear compromise. No site will please everybody. But South Haven is easily the most centrally located site we could pick. Its a good fit and there is no better fit anywhere.

IMHO.


Based on average distance the sites rank like this:
1. South Haven
2. Birmingham
3. Bilioxi/New Orleans
4. Hot Springs
5. Atlanta

I did a longitude latitude analysis and calculated that the center of the Sun Belt was in Alabama but closer to Hattiesburg, Mississippi than any other D1 college town.

So Southaven makes sense.

(09-21-2012 10:59 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  I did a longitude latitude analysis and calculated that the center of the Sun Belt was in Alabama but closer to Hattiesburg, Mississippi than any other D1 college town.

So Southaven makes sense.

I did mine off of Bing maps (road distance). Did you use the 12 future members?

Jackson, MS might be closer to the true geographic center.

(09-21-2012 11:06 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(09-21-2012 10:59 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  I did a longitude latitude analysis and calculated that the center of the Sun Belt was in Alabama but closer to Hattiesburg, Mississippi than any other D1 college town.

So Southaven makes sense.

I did mine off of Bing maps (road distance). Did you use the 12 future members?

Jackson, MS might be closer to the true geographic center.

Also, it bears mentioning that while FAU and Texas State are members, they will be far away with any of the sites widely considered. It makes sense to me to throw them out and just use the average of the schools that will likely be able to actually drive it.

With no SBC influence in Mississippi, I have a hard time believing the locals would care at all about a tournament there...

(09-21-2012 11:10 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  With no SBC influence in Mississippi, I have a hard time believing the locals would care at all about a tournament there...

Because the locals sell it out in Hot Springs, right?

(09-21-2012 11:13 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(09-21-2012 11:10 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  With no SBC influence in Mississippi, I have a hard time believing the locals would care at all about a tournament there...

Because the locals sell it out in Hot Springs, right?

Hot Springs benefits from having 2 SBC programs within a couple hours of the place, with strong alum bases near the city. Many ASU and UALR fans for that matter could go back and forth to the tourney without having to splurge for a hotel.

Closest SBC program to Southaven would be ASU, and a ULM team that doesnt draw well. Its still over a 3 hour drive for WKU and MTSU fans, meaning they have to stay in hotels. If large portions of your fanbases have to stay in hotels, it takes away from attendance.

Not to mention that Hot Springs WANTS the tournament. I am not sure the same could be said for South Haven.

(09-21-2012 11:06 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(09-21-2012 10:59 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  I did a longitude latitude analysis and calculated that the center of the Sun Belt was in Alabama but closer to Hattiesburg, Mississippi than any other D1 college town.

So Southaven makes sense.

I did mine off of Bing maps (road distance). Did you use the 12 future members?

Jackson, MS might be closer to the true geographic center.

Found my spreadsheet. Did Football and Basketball.

Football:

Google latitude longitude

Florida Intl 25.8 -80.2
Florida Atlantic 26.4 -80.1
Lafayette 30.2 -92.0
Mobile 30.7 -88.0
TROY 31.8 -86.0
Monroe 32.5 -92.1
Denton 33.2 -97.1

Murphreesboro 35.5 -86.6
State University 35.8 -90.7
Bowling Green 37.0 -86.4

Average 31.9 -87.9
Tallahatta Springs Rd, Thomasville, AL 36784, USA


With UALR for basketball

Average 32.2 -88.3
Mt Nebo Rd, Butler, AL 36904, USA

(09-21-2012 11:21 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(09-21-2012 11:13 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(09-21-2012 11:10 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  With no SBC influence in Mississippi, I have a hard time believing the locals would care at all about a tournament there...

Because the locals sell it out in Hot Springs, right?

Hot Springs benefits from having 2 SBC programs within a couple hours of the place, with strong alum bases near the city. Many ASU and UALR fans for that matter could go back and forth to the tourney without having to splurge for a hotel.

Closest SBC program to Southaven would be ASU, and a ULM team that doesnt draw well. Its still over a 3 hour drive for WKU and MTSU fans, meaning they have to stay in hotels. If large portions of your fanbases have to stay in hotels, it takes away from attendance.

Not to mention that Hot Springs WANTS the tournament. I am not sure the same could be said for South Haven.

right. i remember when all those asu fans and ualr fans packed the house....said nobody.

(09-21-2012 11:34 PM)dahbeed Wrote:  

(09-21-2012 11:21 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(09-21-2012 11:13 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(09-21-2012 11:10 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  With no SBC influence in Mississippi, I have a hard time believing the locals would care at all about a tournament there...

Because the locals sell it out in Hot Springs, right?

Hot Springs benefits from having 2 SBC programs within a couple hours of the place, with strong alum bases near the city. Many ASU and UALR fans for that matter could go back and forth to the tourney without having to splurge for a hotel.

Closest SBC program to Southaven would be ASU, and a ULM team that doesnt draw well. Its still over a 3 hour drive for WKU and MTSU fans, meaning they have to stay in hotels. If large portions of your fanbases have to stay in hotels, it takes away from attendance.

Not to mention that Hot Springs WANTS the tournament. I am not sure the same could be said for South Haven.

right. i remember when all those asu fans and ualr fans packed the house....said nobody.

Only way the SBC tourney ever packs the house is if the Championship Game is played at one of the schools playing in the game.

.

1. 3 hours away or not... I think WKU would bring a crowd to South Haven on par with what UALR and Arkansas State brought to Hot Springs or better.
2. You say no championship will never be packed but that is a straw man. You said that Hot Springs WANTS the tournament but unless they WANT it bad enough to buy tickets it is irrelevant.
3. As a fundamental question of fairness does it make sense to ask basically every school to drive an extra 60 or 70 miles (on average) when there are more centrally located locations (South Haven or Birmingham?)
   

Incidentally, after compiling this table I can understand why Birmingham might be the choice as it is a close 2nd in terms of centrality.

(09-21-2012 11:34 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  With UALR for basketball

Average 32.2 -88.3
Mt Nebo Rd, Butler, AL 36904, USA

That's interesting. Couple of thoughts on that. 1, FAU distorts that a bit. FAU is going to need to fly or make a REALLY long drive regardless. If you throw them out South Haven looks even closer to the center. 2, driving distances (although similar) is a better measure because that is what fans would actually have to travel to get there.

(09-21-2012 11:13 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(09-21-2012 11:10 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  With no SBC influence in Mississippi, I have a hard time believing the locals would care at all about a tournament there...

Because the locals sell it out in Hot Springs, right?

Because we got a sweet deal in Hot Springs that allows us to make money and it draws as well.

I am willing to travel to South Heaven but driving to gamble and beal street vs walking to things in Hot Springs is not a plus to me.

Hot Springs has the horse track and two lakes, if you are looking for stuff to do.

I am the type of fan that will watch every game and just need a hotel room close to the arena to walk to and some food choices that don't suck, so Hot Springs is a good fit and I am sure South Heaven has my needs covered too.

(09-22-2012 06:59 AM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

1. 3 hours away or not... I think WKU would bring a crowd to South Haven on par with what UALR and Arkansas State brought to Hot Springs or better.
2. You say no championship will never be packed but that is a straw man. You said that Hot Springs WANTS the tournament but unless they WANT it bad enough to buy tickets it is irrelevant.
3. As a fundamental question of fairness does it make sense to ask basically every school to drive an extra 60 or 70 miles (on average) when there are more centrally located locations (South Haven or Birmingham?)
   

Incidentally, after compiling this table I can understand why Birmingham might be the choice as it is a close 2nd in terms of centrality.

A State Fan would know how to answer this but I think we have a deal in Hot Springs that makes money and is as good or better than the other options.

If we are going for most butts in seats and most money to be made, I think we should just have it at WKU. That is a serious statement. Middle may draw well for a year or two but if we based it at WKU every year, I think it would draw the most butts in seats.

Obviously, that is not a solution anyone wants, even the WKU fans.

I kind of feel bad for our outliers in these situations. I think we could move it around to spread the joy a little bit.

Maybe we could go in five year cycles. Make each 5 year schedule include 1 year in a south Texas city like San Antonio or Houston, 1 year in a south Florida city like Miami, and 3 years at one of these centrally located cities.

So, in every five-year stretch, the Texas State and FAU fans would be able to drive 1 year and have to fly four years.

The rest of the conference would be able to drive 3 years and fly 2 years.

I want it at one site. No rotating, just let it build into an event, like the MVC in Saint Louis.

(09-22-2012 09:14 AM)Batjag Wrote:  I kind of feel bad for our outliers in these situations. I think we could move it around to spread the joy a little bit.

Maybe we could go in five year cycles. Make each 5 year schedule include 1 year in a south Texas city like San Antonio or Houston, 1 year in a south Florida city like Miami, and 3 years at one of these centrally located cities.

So, in every five-year stretch, the Texas State and FAU fans would be able to drive 1 year and have to fly four years.

The rest of the conference would be able to drive 3 years and fly 2 years.

I agree. My preference would be to rotate hosting the tournament among conference members. Everyone gets to host.

If neutral sites are chosen, why not New Orleans? South Haven seems to work along with Biloxi. We've never succeeded with tournaments at neutral sites though. Ever.

Would have to move the tourney for most of the belt to get on board of building it up. I suspect, through polls and message board fodder, that everyone wants a change out of hot springs.

I prefer a destination with an airport closeby utilized by southwest.

(09-22-2012 10:08 AM)insideualr Wrote:  I want it at one site. No rotating, just let it build into an event, like the MVC in Saint Louis.

(09-22-2012 01:54 PM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  

(09-22-2012 09:14 AM)Batjag Wrote:  I kind of feel bad for our outliers in these situations. I think we could move it around to spread the joy a little bit.

Maybe we could go in five year cycles. Make each 5 year schedule include 1 year in a south Texas city like San Antonio or Houston, 1 year in a south Florida city like Miami, and 3 years at one of these centrally located cities.

So, in every five-year stretch, the Texas State and FAU fans would be able to drive 1 year and have to fly four years.

The rest of the conference would be able to drive 3 years and fly 2 years.

I agree. My preference would be to rotate hosting the tournament among conference members. Everyone gets to host.

If neutral sites are chosen, why not New Orleans? South Haven seems to work along with Biloxi. We've never succeeded with tournaments at neutral sites though. Ever.

We rotated it in the past and it did not work.

A State Fan's thoughts of letting the tournament be hosted at home arenas of the top 4 to 6 teams and not letting every team be in it. Let the regular season count to weed out all but the top 4 to 6 teams.

Keep the 20 game conference schedule but let it count for something.