More good news from the Syracuse Mole

http://syracusefan.com/threads/lets-be-c...acc.36157/

Okay, so the Orange Bowl may not have the ACC against a champion from the B1G, SEC, Big12, or PAC 12.....of course in the semi rotation it could be two of those conferences in the Orange Bowl-that the ACC owns TV rights too regardless--and ACC champion goes to another bowl if not in the semi-finals.

Now let's discuss the other important/impact issue: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
The ACC is part of the new BCS big boy table (the BE etc make-up the Group of 5 that are not at the big boy table). It is estimated that the yearly TV rights for the new BCS is valued at around $500,000,000/yr for next 12 years (thank you ESPN). The top 5 conferences (ACC, B1G, Pac 12, SEC, and Big 12) will share EQUALLY A BASE AMOUNT while the group of 5 will get a smaller share to divide as they see fit among those conferences making up the group of 5......this means take their smaller payout and share it among 5 conferences with 40+ teams---ouch!

My NCState source indicates that what the ACC is looking at its shared base amount to be somewhere between $60-$75 million not counting revenue from the TV rights from Orange Bowl (ACC controls media rights even if a semi final game and an ACC team isnt in) to additional payouts based on academic excellence, # of teams selected in access bowl and the final NC. It is potentially possible that the each of the 14 team ACC may be hit with up to an additional $4,500,000-$6,000,000 per year. That of course does not include take from the Orange Bowl TV media rights which the ACC owns.

Bottom line: If all goes according to thought at this point....the ACC (including the addl game payout from having Notre Dame football play 2-3 games at ACC stadiums (including neutral site games called ACC home games) the $$$$$$$$$$ (minimally per team is projected at):
$25,500,000-$28,000,000/yr per ACC team (14 teams) including the Orange Bowl payout projected at only 50% of the media rights expected to be $55,000,000 or more.
The ACC move appears to have everything that 'Cuse could hope for:
1. Very good academic conference
2. Best BBall conference
3. Good football conference--that will get better with these additional dollars
4. More $$$$$$$$ than any of us believed possible.

Discuss!

And we will still be behind the other four conferences in total payout. Clemson, FSU, and GT will still be trying to battle in-state and regional schools with one hand tied behind their back.

WE never seemed to hear all of this complaining out of South Carolina before they joined the SEC when Clemson had the financial advantage.

You must be deaf. They cried about it all the time.

Of course at the time conference payouts were peanuts compared to today, so it's essentially an apples to oranges comparison, but don't let that stop you from making an ass of yourself making absurd observations like that.


Like I said before, it's going to be funny when the SEC schools realize they can spend money on basketball as well and they close the already small gap that exists in titles and title game appearances the past 20 years. I guess then the financial disparity will matter, since obviously the fact that SEC schools continue to come into the state of NC and cherry pick the best football talent doesn't matter.

Everyone else: "Wow, our revenue is about to double, maybe triple!"
CatDaddy: "But others will be making more money than us!"

--- definition ---

Quote:en·vy/ˈenvē/ Noun: A feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck.

No matter how much money Clemson takes in, SOMEONE will take in more.

I understand there was a time (2010 to be exact) when the SEC was getting 3X as much as the ACC in TV $$$, and that was an almost insurmountable disadvantage for Clemson vs. S Carolina. However, that is simply no longer the case. At this moment, the ACC is actually EVEN with the SEC (since the latter still does NOT have a new TV contract, but we do).

There will be periods in which one school has more resources than the other - inevitably. It's the job of the ACC to make sure the difference is small, and I think that mission has already been accomplished.

The next goal for the ACC is to get back out in front - but with the knowledge that it will only be temporary. it's ALWAYS temporary.

Here's the issue's that I see.
1- The 5 conferences share the revenue. That's fine. However, what doesn't get taken into account is there will be value in the # of teams you get in. So, If SEC gets 5 teams in and ACC gets 1 team in, that's going to be a HUGE difference. If each of the 5 conferences gets 50 million each base money, and then the other 5 gets 50 million total- that leaves 200 million. It may be like 10 million for each team you get in the 6 bowls. So, SEC with 5 to ACC 1(which would be very possible)- would give SEC 100 million to ACC 60 million. There's also going to be an academic component to things as well....
2- ACC can not play a conference champion, even if like this year Rose Bowl was hosting sf... Nebraska would not be an option at all.

(11-13-2012 01:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Everyone else: "Wow, our revenue is about to double, maybe triple!"
CatDaddy: "But others will be making more money than us!"

--- definition ---

Quote:en·vy/ˈenvē/ Noun: A feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck.

No matter how much money Clemson takes in, SOMEONE will take in more.

I understand there was a time (2010 to be exact) when the SEC was getting 3X as much as the ACC in TV $$$, and that was an almost insurmountable disadvantage for Clemson vs. S Carolina. However, that is simply no longer the case. At this moment, the ACC is actually EVEN with the SEC (since the latter still does NOT have a new TV contract, but we do).

There will be periods in which one school has more resources than the other - inevitably. It's the job of the ACC to make sure the difference is small, and I think that mission has already been accomplished.

The next goal for the ACC is to get back out in front - but with the knowledge that it will only be temporary. it's ALWAYS temporary.

Don't forget, both the ACC and SEC have further renegotiation with ESPN for their expansion (ACC for ND, SEC for ATM and Mizzou). I'm looking for the ACC to get a per school increase to $18 or $19 mil. The SEC, with an anticipated SEC Network as part of the deal, I would venture to speculate is more likely looking at something in the range $25 mil.

The B12 is looking like roses on the BCS front. They are getting to spread their BCS money around 10 schools instead of 12 or 14. That will generate an extra $1-2 million/year/school just due to conference size.

good point about the per team money...
SEC gets 5 teams in BCS- 100 million/14- 7.14 million per
ACC gets 1 team in BCS- 60 million/14- 4.29 million per
B12 gets 2 teams in BCS- 70 million/10- 7 million per
P12 gets 2 teams in BCS- 70 million/12- 5.83 million per
B10 gets 1 team in BCS- 60 million/12- 5 million per

The per school average is much worse for ACC than any other conference......

(11-13-2012 01:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Everyone else: "Wow, our revenue is about to double, maybe triple!"
CatDaddy: "But others will be making more money than us!"

--- definition ---

Quote:en·vy/ˈenvē/ Noun: A feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck.

It's not envy, it is a desire to be something other than ACC Champion. We have one crystal football in the WestZone, we want more. We aren't paying our coaches what we are paying to win just the Atlantic, and unlike VT we aren't content with just winning 10 games a year, and we aren't like the majority of the rest of the conference....old and new...who look at football as something to do until basketball and lacrosse season opens.

Quote:No matter how much money Clemson takes in, SOMEONE will take in more.

I understand there was a time (2010 to be exact) when the SEC was getting 3X as much as the ACC in TV $$$, and that was an almost insurmountable disadvantage for Clemson vs. S Carolina. However, that is simply no longer the case. At this moment, the ACC is actually EVEN with the SEC (since the latter still does NOT have a new TV contract, but we do).

We are even with the SEC until their new TV deal is negotiated, and until the payout from the playoff, Champions Bowl, Orange Bowl (remember they will get money from us for this that we don't get from anywhere else), and all other bowls they have (which I might add they already blow us out the water on, and we are going to likely lose our best paying bowl to be a new access bowl)

How close do you really think it is going to be? We are already behind the BigXII, B1G, and Pac12. Add in the fact that it will be year 5 of the new contract until we see anything close to the supposed per year dollar figures everybody like to quote as concrete and the gap is far wider than you spinmiesters want to admit.
In addition you are likely going to see the SEC Network in the very near future, and the revenue that will result from that. Now I know it's not ESPN3 and Youtube, but it's going to make it that much harder to compete.

Recruit - "What kind of offense do you run?"

SEC Coach - "Well, if you want to see what we do there is going to be a replay of our game last week on the SEC Network this Wednesday at 7:30."

ACC Coach - "You can go on Youtube and look at a video."

Quote:There will be periods in which one school has more resources than the other - inevitably. It's the job of the ACC to make sure the difference is small, and I think that mission has already been accomplished.

The next goal for the ACC is to get back out in front - but with the knowledge that it will only be temporary. it's ALWAYS temporary.

Again, it's obvious that the majority of y'all think it's no big deal. It will become a big deal when the SEC, who already has as many national titles in hoops the past 20 years as the ACC and more than the Big East, decides to start pouring some of this excess money into basketball. I can't wait to hear the howls from Tabakky Rd then.

(11-13-2012 02:24 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 01:52 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Everyone else: "Wow, our revenue is about to double, maybe triple!"
CatDaddy: "But others will be making more money than us!"

--- definition ---

Quote:en·vy/ˈenvē/ Noun: A feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck.

It's not envy, it is a desire to be something other than ACC Champion. We have one crystal football in the WestZone, we want more. We aren't paying our coaches what we are paying to win just the Atlantic, and unlike VT we aren't content with just winning 10 games a year, and we aren't like the majority of the rest of the conference....old and new...who look at football as something to do until basketball and lacrosse season opens.

Quote:No matter how much money Clemson takes in, SOMEONE will take in more.

I understand there was a time (2010 to be exact) when the SEC was getting 3X as much as the ACC in TV $$$, and that was an almost insurmountable disadvantage for Clemson vs. S Carolina. However, that is simply no longer the case. At this moment, the ACC is actually EVEN with the SEC (since the latter still does NOT have a new TV contract, but we do).

We are even with the SEC until their new TV deal is negotiated, and until the payout from the playoff, Champions Bowl, Orange Bowl (remember they will get money from us for this that we don't get from anywhere else), and all other bowls they have (which I might add they already blow us out the water on, and we are going to likely lose our best paying bowl to be a new access bowl)

How close do you really think it is going to be? We are already behind the BigXII, B1G, and Pac12. Add in the fact that it will be year 5 of the new contract until we see anything close to the supposed per year dollar figures everybody like to quote as concrete and the gap is far wider than you spinmiesters want to admit.
In addition you are likely going to see the SEC Network in the very near future, and the revenue that will result from that. Now I know it's not ESPN3 and Youtube, but it's going to make it that much harder to compete.

Recruit - "What kind of offense do you run?"

SEC Coach - "Well, if you want to see what we do there is going to be a replay of our game last week on the SEC Network this Wednesday at 7:30."

ACC Coach - "You can go on Youtube and look at a video."

Quote:There will be periods in which one school has more resources than the other - inevitably. It's the job of the ACC to make sure the difference is small, and I think that mission has already been accomplished.

The next goal for the ACC is to get back out in front - but with the knowledge that it will only be temporary. it's ALWAYS temporary.

Again, it's obvious that the majority of y'all think it's no big deal. It will become a big deal when the SEC, who already has as many national titles in hoops the past 20 years as the ACC and more than the Big East, decides to start pouring some of this excess money into basketball. I can't wait to hear the howls from Tabakky Rd then.

IMHO, the SEC is FB first, second and third...only UK and Mizzou really cares about hoops. TAMU, UT and UF to a lessor extent.

They can pour all the money they want into basketball but will the fans follow?

(11-13-2012 02:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  good point about the per team money...
SEC gets 5 teams in BCS- 100 million/14- 7.14 million per
ACC gets 1 team in BCS- 60 million/14- 4.29 million per
B12 gets 2 teams in BCS- 70 million/10- 7 million per
P12 gets 2 teams in BCS- 70 million/12- 5.83 million per
B10 gets 1 team in BCS- 60 million/12- 5 million per

The per school average is much worse for ACC than any other conference......

The SEC won't get 5 teams in (you have an extra spot, because you forgot to include the g5 team). Your numbers are also high, because you forgot to subtract the conference's retained cut. This favors bigger conferences. Worst case scenario, they will get 4 teams to our one, but that is the absolute worst. In that case, the SEC's payout would be $90 million/15 = 6 million. They ACC's payout would be $60 million/15 = $ 4 million. The B12 would get $70 million/11 = $6.364 million. The P12 would get $70 million/13 = $5.38. And finally, the B10 would get $60/13 = $4.62 million. A $2.364 ($2 when compared to the SEC) difference won't cause the world to end when schools are making well over $30 million dollars off of media rights and bowls, especially when the ACC will get 2 teams in BCS games many years (i.e. we would as of right now this year).

(11-13-2012 04:15 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  IMHO, the SEC is FB first, second and third...only UK and Mizzou really cares about hoops. TAMU, UT and UF to a lessor extent.

They can pour all the money they want into basketball but will the fans follow?

Pretty sure that UF, with twice as many national titles and more title game appearances in the past 20 years as the vaunted Syracuse Orange, could care less if their fans follow. Evidently fan following and placing basketball first isn't as important a deal as one would think, or else it would be the BE and ACC battling it out every year for the crown instead of a conference that is "football first, second, and third" being tied with the ACC in titles and beating the BE outright.

(11-13-2012 02:24 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  ... until the payout from the playoff, Champions Bowl, Orange Bowl (remember they will get money from us for this that we don't get from anywhere else)...

Huh? We aren't going to split the OB money with anyone other than the opposing team, and even then, it won't be an even split. We will pay them market rates (access bowl rates) and pocket the rest. Given that there appears to be enough to pay a visiting team and keep the same $40 million that the SEC will keep, and we will also play in the access bowls when the OB is hosting, we won't make any less than they do.

They aren't even cutting it fewer ways.

The group of 5 is getting hosed (in particular BE)
The presidents are propping it up by saying that there is still access and overall more money.
Like the yankees telling teams like pirates in baseball all is fine with the system.
The revenue difference over the next 14 years will be gigantic.
I agree the sec/b10 are widening the gap among the 5 though.

(11-13-2012 04:47 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  The group of 5 is getting hosed (in particular BE)
The presidents are propping it up by saying that there is still access and overall more money.
Like the yankees telling teams like pirates in baseball all is fine with the system.
The revenue difference over the next 14 years will be gigantic.
I agree the sec/b10 are widening the gap among the 5 though.

I doubt it. IMO, the SEC and the B1G are. The B1G is just quiet about it. The B1G has the best TV contract (it doesn't look like the best, but that's just because it was signed earlier and TV contracts are back-loaded), the B1G and the SEC have the best bowls (even though the B1G loses all of them), the B1G and the SEC will make the most from the post season playoff (OSU, Michigan, Michigan State, Nebraska, Penn State, and Wisconsin won't stay down for long - even PSU will recover MUCH sooner than most people think), and B1G basketball is very lucrative. Plus, B1G football makes the most in ticket revenue.

Texas and Oklahoma may benefit more than any team in the B1G, but the B1G, as a whole, benefits more than the Big 12.

sorry, I'm still calling Big Ten, b10.
Those 2 widening the gap is a concern.

(11-13-2012 05:27 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  sorry, I'm still calling Big Ten, b10.
Those 2 widening the gap is a concern.

No, that was on me. Apparently I can't read. I don't know why, but I though you wrote b12, as in "Big 12." lol, I need some sleep.

(11-13-2012 04:25 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 02:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  good point about the per team money...
SEC gets 5 teams in BCS- 100 million/14- 7.14 million per
ACC gets 1 team in BCS- 60 million/14- 4.29 million per
B12 gets 2 teams in BCS- 70 million/10- 7 million per
P12 gets 2 teams in BCS- 70 million/12- 5.83 million per
B10 gets 1 team in BCS- 60 million/12- 5 million per

The per school average is much worse for ACC than any other conference......

The SEC won't get 5 teams in (you have an extra spot, because you forgot to include the g5 team). Your numbers are also high, because you forgot to subtract the conference's retained cut. This favors bigger conferences. Worst case scenario, they will get 4 teams to our one, but that is the absolute worst. In that case, the SEC's payout would be $90 million/15 = 6 million. They ACC's payout would be $60 million/15 = $ 4 million. The B12 would get $70 million/11 = $6.364 million. The P12 would get $70 million/13 = $5.38. And finally, the B10 would get $60/13 = $4.62 million. A $2.364 ($2 when compared to the SEC) difference won't cause the world to end when schools are making well over $30 million dollars off of media rights and bowls, especially when the ACC will get 2 teams in BCS games many years (i.e. we would as of right now this year).

This year Clemson by no means would be a lock for a 2nd team in the new 12 team format.

And, yes SEC could get 5 teams in-
1 in playoff(could be 2 if Notre Dame loses to USC)- Alabama
1 in Sugar- LSU
1 in Orange- Florida or Georgia
and 2 at larges. Florida/Georgia, Texas A&M

By owning the OB, does the ACC have any other revenue sources? Rebroadcast rights? Ad revenue on the ACC digital network? Naming fees? Are cities going to bid on the OB like they did for the Champions bowl? I'm sure there are some other revenue sources out there. At the very least the schools won't have tens of thousands of over priced tickets forced on them.

(11-13-2012 05:52 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 04:25 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(11-13-2012 02:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  good point about the per team money...
SEC gets 5 teams in BCS- 100 million/14- 7.14 million per
ACC gets 1 team in BCS- 60 million/14- 4.29 million per
B12 gets 2 teams in BCS- 70 million/10- 7 million per
P12 gets 2 teams in BCS- 70 million/12- 5.83 million per
B10 gets 1 team in BCS- 60 million/12- 5 million per

The per school average is much worse for ACC than any other conference......

The SEC won't get 5 teams in (you have an extra spot, because you forgot to include the g5 team). Your numbers are also high, because you forgot to subtract the conference's retained cut. This favors bigger conferences. Worst case scenario, they will get 4 teams to our one, but that is the absolute worst. In that case, the SEC's payout would be $90 million/15 = 6 million. They ACC's payout would be $60 million/15 = $ 4 million. The B12 would get $70 million/11 = $6.364 million. The P12 would get $70 million/13 = $5.38. And finally, the B10 would get $60/13 = $4.62 million. A $2.364 ($2 when compared to the SEC) difference won't cause the world to end when schools are making well over $30 million dollars off of media rights and bowls, especially when the ACC will get 2 teams in BCS games many years (i.e. we would as of right now this year).

This year Clemson by no means would be a lock for a 2nd team in the new 12 team format.

And, yes SEC could get 5 teams in-
1 in playoff(could be 2 if Notre Dame loses to USC)- Alabama
1 in Sugar- LSU
1 in Orange- Florida or Georgia
and 2 at larges. Florida/Georgia, Texas A&M

You are adding an extra game. The G5 gets a spot. 4 spots are for the FF, 5 are for power conference champs, 2 are at-large games, and 1 is for the best of the rest.

You are giving the "best of the rest" spot to the SEC.

*Champions Bowl #1 KSU v. #4 'Bama*
Rose Bowl #14 Nebraska v. #13 Stanford
Orange Bowl #10 FSU v. #5 Georgia
*Champs Sports Bowl #2 Oregon v. #3 ND*
Poinsettia Bowl #19 Louisville v. #6 Florida
Tangerine Bowl #7 LSU v. #12 Oklahoma

NC game: winner of the Champions Bowl and the Champs Sports Bowl

That's only 4 SEC teams. Btw get the bowl name joke?

You're right about Clemson, though. However, I think a win against USCarolina would send them. None the less, they are far from a lock.