(09-10-2012 12:46 AM)Claw Wrote:  Affordable health care is a myth.
The reality is that a person will spend everything they have to stay alive. They will spend everything the rest of us have as well if it is available.
That is simply human nature. It isn't going to change. For that reason, health care will never be "affordable". There will always be treatments out of the reach of some people.
The only question is how best to ration the supply? We allow the market to do this with food, shelter, clothing, and entertainment. For some reason we don't think the market can do this with health care. Well, it can, and it does.
I submit that the market is just as fair and equitable as government rationed care would be. That's not because I think the market does a fair job. It's because I am equally certain the government will not do a fair job.

Well stated.

I used to work in health care. A lot of the cost is just plain greed. A company I worked for spent more money on extending their patents than they did on R&D.

(09-10-2012 06:25 AM)TOGC Wrote:  I used to work in health care. A lot of the cost is just plain greed. A company I worked for spent more money on extending their patents than they did on R&D.

Surprisingly enough I agree. While patent protection is important and shouldn't just be dismissed insurance companies and hospitals have way too much flexibility in what they can define as "administrative" costs.

(09-09-2012 09:17 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-5...obamacare/

If he can admit that certain parts of Obama's plan are fine, then I think most of you should be able to admit it too. It's okay to hate the whole concept but concede that certain elements of it are fine and should continue regardless of our government leadership.

Very few have said that there are no parts of Obama care that were not good..

I love beer but a few drops of beer in a vat of arsenic does not a good drink make.

Obama should have been an adult and put small digestible bites out there.

(09-09-2012 09:37 AM)TOGC Wrote:  He should like it. He created one just like it when he was governor.

Yea cause seven pages is so much like more than 1700 pages..

(09-09-2012 09:23 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(09-09-2012 09:18 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  So which end do you want covered for free, Robert? The inexpensive check-up or the expensive cancer treatment? Obama (and everyone else) is passing these costs on. Which do you want to come out of your pocket?

Ah, trying to get me on the "free" comment. Sorry, won't work.

Not at all. I think you just don't want to address, or perhaps don't understand the issue.

Yes, it is cheap to get a check-up and expensive to cure all of the diseases that people get... but if you are covering 100% of the people for the check-ups, and only a fraction (sometimes a SMALL fraction) of those people for the expensive stuff, the cost differentials are less significant.

So, If I have $X to pay for your care... regardless of how I got it or from whom... do you want me to make sure your expensive things are covered, and let YOU pick up the routine stuff, or do you want me to only cover MANY, but not ALL of the expensive things and pick up your routine stuff?

Am I the only one who thinks BIE and SOAF sometimes type like Yoda speaks? Kinda weird.

BY READING THIS POST YOU RECOGNIZE THAT IMATY IS THE LAST GREAT CRUSADER FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE SO HELP YOU GOD.

When you look at the dark side, careful you must be ... for the dark side looks back.

Just another in the growing line of total screw ups by the R&R boys. They better get their **** together or this thing will be out of reach before the first debate!

Romney rails against the bill Ryan voted for.
Ryan tries to tell reporter he voted for a bill but not for what was in it??
Romney claims Obama wants to take God off of coins.
Romney goes on a boat ride after his convention.
Ryan says he wants states to decide on Marijuana...gets rebuked 18 hours later.
Romney has an appearance with lunatic Pat Robertson.
Both have still yet to provide a plausible explanation how the 'arithmetic' of their plan actually works.

It just keeps going...

Arithmetic is not a strong suit of either campaigns.

How about Obama's Arithmetic. Here is how it adds up. 4 years and still no budget. Clearly the Progs are willing to ignore Obama's Arithmetic and Budget as has every congressman, D&R, for the last 4 f'ucking years.

(09-11-2012 08:36 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Just another in the growing line of total screw ups by the R&R boys. They better get their **** together or this thing will be out of reach before the first debate!

Romney rails against the bill Ryan voted for.
Ryan tries to tell reporter he voted for a bill but not for what was in it??
Romney claims Obama wants to take God off of coins.
Romney goes on a boat ride after his convention.
Ryan says he wants states to decide on Marijuana...gets rebuked 18 hours later.
Romney has an appearance with lunatic Pat Robertson.
Both have still yet to provide a plausible explanation how the 'arithmetic' of their plan actually works.

It just keeps going...

Wow. Is this REALLY the best your guys can come up with?

1 and 2 are related, and complete spins. Every politician alive has voted for or against a bill that had things that they liked and disliked in it. Voting FOr (or against) a bill doesn't mean you support (or deny) EVERY aspect of the bill. The OP is a perfect example... Other than some significant differences, Obamacare AND Romneycare are similar... Like a Volt is significantly similar to a Cruze, with a few significant differences. Liking the Cruze because the cost/benefit is better than the Volt doesn't mean you don't support alternative energy.
Haven't heard 3, but big deal
4 - um, it was a holiday? LOTS of people were on boats
5- Compared to Biden, this is nothing.
6- meh...
7- sure they have. You just don't like it, or agree with their assumptions, thus you call it "implausable". This is a joke.

If this is the best you guys can come up with, then yes... it IS over

Bone,
What deductions ares R&R going to cut?
What loopholes are they going to close?
You really want to be compared to Biden?
Holiday or not, Romney took a week off after the convention which just never happens. You normally go on a campaign swing.
Ryan was made to look foolish at the hands of Norah O'Donnell...which is no small feat.
Both of them have made statements that their campaign has to back track on the next day.

And biggest of all, they continue to not be able to frame the debate toward the economy!

Face it, this campaign is off to a lousier start than McCain's!

(09-11-2012 01:49 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Bone,
What deductions ares R&R going to cut?

who said this was part of their plan?

Quote:What loopholes are they going to close?

Again, who said this was part of their plan? Just because you think they should do something, and they don't do it, doesn't mean they haven't articulated what they are going to do. They just haven't done what YOU think they should.
If you lower the top bracket, which obviously doesn't affect the wealthy, otherwise Romney's rate would be closer to 30% rather than 15... you reduce the incentive to shelter income. You don't NEED to specifically close a loophole. You merely need to make it less attractive. MOST shelters are inefficient, but the tax savings makes it worthwhile. Change the math and you change the reported income.

Quote:You really want to be compared to Biden?

You really think this was as big a gaffe as "outing" the President on gay marriage?

Quote:Holiday or not, Romney took a week off after the convention which just never happens. You normally go on a campaign swing.

How did they make all of these policy gaffes if they were on vacation? You REALLY want to compare politicians vacation time?

Quote:Ryan was made to look foolish at the hands of Norah O'Donnell...which is no small feat.
Both of them have made statements that their campaign has to back track on the next day.

Romney and Ryan made Obama look pretty foolish in Chicago in re the teachers strike.

Quote:And biggest of all, they continue to not be able to frame the debate toward the economy!

Not in democratic circles where YOU obviously hang out, because YOU want to argue that unemployent dropping because the labor participation rate hits a 50 year low is "good"... but to quote someone... It's the economy, stupid. What Democrats and Republicans think at this point is pretty immaterial. MOST of those who voted for Obama still will... but Obama can't rally the "hope and change" crew this time. Where is the excitement for his campaign? It doesn't exist. Meanwhile, PLENTY of people who voted for Obama now regret that choice... PRECISELY because of the economy. Nobody needs to focus the debate for those people. They merely need to offer a solution. I guarantee you that WHATEVER they are offering makes infinitely more sense than Obama's claim that while he didn't "get it" for the past 4 years, NOW he does.

Your opinion of their campaign is cute. Personally, I think it rather smart to let the focus fall onto the Democrats during their convention. It's generally going to land there anyway, and they don't pay you at the "turn". Why spend millions to get hundreds of thousands worth of value? It sure seems that the democrats "bump" was short-lived.

THEY are the ones talking about loopholes and deductions, but they never offer specifics...and they have to be there if their plan is going to attack the deficit like they say. Maybe you need to hang out in other media areas because you're missing this part of their campaign!

And these gaffes were made on the Sunday shows and yesterday, after their respet. And as I said, it's just unusual to not have a quick campaign swing after the convention. I just think it was unwise.