Yeah, yeah the civil war was between pricks and hicks.

Let's get back to realignment discussion, shall we?

(07-26-2012 09:02 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  Yeah, yeah the civil war was between pricks and hicks.

Let's get back to realignment discussion, shall we?

And Micks......



"More than 150,000 Irishmen, most of whom were recent immigrants and many of whom were not yet U.S. citizens, joined the Union Army during the Civil War. Some joined out of loyalty to their new home. Others hoped that such a conspicuous display of patriotism might put a stop to anti-Irish discrimination. "


http://www.civilwarhome.com/irish.htm



"Fearless Sons of Erin

Thanks to their toughness and bravery, the five-regiment Irish Brigade led the Union charge in many of the Army of the Potomac’s major battles. This meant that they suffered disproportionate numbers of casualties. At the Battle of Antietam, in September 1862, about 60 percent of the soldiers in the 63rd and 69th New York regiments, almost 600 men in all, were killed in battle. A few months later, at the Battle of Fredericksburg, 545 of the brigade’s 1,200 men were killed or wounded. “Irish blood and Irish bones cover that terrible field today,” wrote one soldier. “We are slaughtered like sheep.”

In July 1863, at the Battle of Gettysburg, about 320 of the Irish Brigade’s remaining 530 soldiers were killed. (There is a monument to the Irish Brigade on the battlefield there: a green malachite Celtic cross with a trefoil, an Irish harp and the numbers of the three New York Irish regiments rendered in bronze on its front. At the cross’s feet lies a statue of an Irish wolfhound, a symbol of steadfastness and honor.)"




http://www.history.com/topics/the-irish-brigade

http://www.historynet.com/the-irish-brig...il-war.htm

http://www.historynet.com/americas-civil...-union.htm



"The Fighting 69th" was an all Irish regiment of the Irish Brigade. They were the genesis of the name "Fighting Irish".

Father William Corby was the chaplain of the Irish Brigade. He was an alumnus and later a professor at the the University of Notre Dame when the Civil War started.

There is a monument to Father Corby at Gettysburg.

He later became the president of Notre Dame after the Civil War.



http://www.69thnysv.org/


http://www.gettysburg.stonesentinels.com.../Corby.php

The micks also helped out in Mexico too, Terry...

Saint Patrick's Battalion (led by Jon Riley) was a unit of immigrants who fought as part of the Mexican Army against the USA in the Mexican-American War. They were considered the toughest fighting force the U.S. Army had ever encountered at the time. Most had defected from the U.S. Army, and given generous land grants and Mexican citizenship for joining the Mexican Army...

And soon the micks will be headed to the ACC.

Only if they've totally lost their minds, Chappy...

(07-26-2012 03:12 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  

(07-26-2012 11:33 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Thanks Dr. Yinzer for lumping all southerners into the racist bigot category. All I'm saying is there was a lot more to the Civil War than slavery. I'm not going to say it wasn't an issue but it wasn't THE issue. I've noticed you've responded to every Southerner's opinion on stuff except for my own in which I aknowledged the issues and WHY the South had slavery and the FACT that slavery existed in the North also. To paint the Civil War as some kind of campaign by the North to free the slaves is honestly pretty short-sighted and misinformed. It is a convinient "reason" to say the North went to war to paint yourselves as heroes despite the raping of Southern women, both free and slave and the complete and utter destruction of what industry we did have in the South. That was completely uncessary as the war was effectively won by the North but the North went well above and beyond "the call of duty" and reduced much of what we had to nearly nothing at all. That my friend is why the hard feelings are still felt to this day by the folks who's families have called the South home for generations.

I'll leave it at this because you all seem like very nice people and I do not wish to make enemies out of any of you:

First, let me say that I did not purposely omit your stuff and I wasn't ducking anyone - I never do. Also, I'm well aware of the history of it all and I know that plenty of Northerners had slaves. However by the 1850s, that was CLEARLY no longer the case - at least not for the VAST majority.

As for the slavery issue, of course slavery was THE issue - at least for the North it was. Pretending otherwise is absolutely ridiculous and I won't entertain it because it is insensitive to all of the men who lost their lives fighting for that cause. As I said earlier, calling it the "War of Northern Aggression" is a ridiculous characterization of what actually happened. Ask your African-American neighbors if they consider it a "War of Northern Aggression?" I'm guessing that they do not. I'm guessing that they would refer to it along the lines of the "War for Southern Liberation."

I'm all for state's rights but not at the expense of human rights. I don't care how anyone tries to spin it, on some level that was THE fundamental disagreement between the two sides and no amount of rationalization will ever change that fact.

I have no idea what the dominant mindset was in the North or the South in the 1860s but I can tell you that in modern times, where I grew up - Western Pennsylvania - we have never looked at the North and South as two different worlds. In fact we always look at it more from a time zone perspective than anything else.

Also, and I can't make this point emphatically enough, we don't feel any more of an allegiance or malice towards New Yorkers than we do Virginians. We don't care about Massachusites (aka "Massholes") any more than we do North Carolinians. You are ALL from some place very different than where we're from. That has ALWAYS been our mentality - at least when I was growing up. Hell, we don't even feel much commonality with Philadelphians, nor they us. And you have all seen how bizarrely the Central Pennsylvanians act through this whole Sandusky/Paterno pedophilia scandal so I can assure you that they too are their own thing - not really connected to either the Eastern or the Western part of their own state.

We are our own little corner of the world - always have been, always will be. We don't like or dislike any of you; trust or mistrust any of you. We're all Americans and I respect people from all places until they give me reason to no longer respect them.

As for the Civil War, I'm terribly sorry that any Americans had to die, let alone so many. However, sometimes that is the price we pay for living in a free society.

However once it went to war, bad things happened. Bad things ALWAYS happen during Wars. People were mistreated on BOTH sides of the ledger. It's despicable but undeniably true. That is why wars should be avoided at almost any cost. That is particularly true when your opponent is also your countryman and in some cases members of your very own family.

That said, I have a hard time with one side provoking a war, getting beaten and then crying about the beating. Uh uh, I'm sorry but it doesn't work that way. I'm not condoning what the North did to the South. In far too many instances the treatment was awful and indefensible. Sherman's notorious "March to the Sea" leaps immediately to mind. However nor am I willing to condone the bullschitt that the South tried to pull either. Also, it feels more than a little odd for the Southerners to complain about the mistreatment of their slaves. If they really gave two schitts about them they would have freed them in the first place.

Since people had to die, and unfortunately that's how wars work, I'm proud that the United States of America prevailed because it made us a better nation as a whole. I understand that makes some people's blood boil and anyone is certainly free to disagree with me on that. This is after all, America, and that is your right (which is AWESOME). However that is how I feel and it is how I will always feel.

More importantly, I will always love and respect my Southern brothers and sisters just as I do my other American brothers and sisters.

I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings here because most of you are very nice people. However if I did offend anyone I must say that I am NOT sorry as I feel very strongly that the enslavement of human beings is inherently wrong and was ALWAYS against God's will. Even if it was just a tiny morsel of the reason we went to war, it was unquestionably worth every single drop of blood.

I know you mean well and your heart is in the right place and I have not been injured by your words. I hope, by the way, that you are not offended when I say that your views are somewhat revisionist and you do not have a realistic understanding of the antebellum period.

(07-27-2012 07:39 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Only if they've totally lost their minds, Chappy...

lol, I was just getting the thread back on topic.