Either if any of these schools were still relevant or still fielded teams (basketball as a factor as well). Feel free to add others as well.


University of Chicago
Army
Navy
The Ivy League
Rice
Tulane
Sewannee (UotS)
Phillips University
Southwestern University
Duquesne (basketball)
CCNY
NYU
Washington & Jefferson
Holy Cross
Houston (basketball)
San Francisco (basketball)
Detroit Mercy


How might it be different if any-to-all of the following schools sponsored FBS football (or merely scholarship football in some cases)?

Butler
Cal-Santa Barbara
CSU-Fullerton
Creighton
Delaware (FBS)
Georgetown
George Mason
Gonzaga
James Madison (FBS)
Long Beach State
Marquette
Villanova
VCU
Wichita State
Xavier Cincinnati

Phillips (private school in OK) that was a member of the SWC for just one year is not just no longer relevant, the school itself no longer exists. It shut its doors in 1998 from bankruptcy and part of the campus was sold to Northern Oklahoma.

Fun fact: Phillips began life as the OK counterpart to TCU, Oklahoma Christian University by the Disciples of Christ who founded both institutions.

In an alternate future, had they built off the success that got them into the SWC, they might have become the modern OK equivalent of TCU.

(07-20-2012 12:46 PM)Caltex2 Wrote:  Either if any of these schools were still relevant or still fielded teams (basketball as a factor as well). Feel free to add others as well.

University of Chicago

If University of Chicago still had FBS football, the B1G would likely have not added Nebraska and the current round of realignment dominoes may not have started.

(07-20-2012 01:21 PM)Madison Hawk Wrote:  

(07-20-2012 12:46 PM)Caltex2 Wrote:  Either if any of these schools were still relevant or still fielded teams (basketball as a factor as well). Feel free to add others as well.

University of Chicago

If University of Chicago still had FBS football, the B1G would likely have not added Nebraska and the current round of realignment dominoes may not have started.

Nevermind Nebraska or even Penn State -- if Chicago still had football, the Big Ten would not have added Michigan State.

"Michigan and the 4 MAC schools."

What if the schools that consider themselves "Southern Ivy League" had gone ahead and formed the "Magnolia Conference"?
* Duke
* Rice
* SMU
* Tulane
* Vanderbilt
* Wake Forest

The ACC might have invited Syracuse & Pitt much earlier, and would only have 12 teams (only 2 in the state of NC).

If Case and Western Reserve had never merged and were still D-1, then:

WRU would be in C-USA or else still in the MAC. They were probably the 2nd best program in the MAC when it was founded in the early 40's, and even won the 1941 Sun Bowl against Arizona St. They left D-1 in the 50's when they dropped down to deemphesize athletics, but with their location in football-mad Cleveland, they could have garnered significant local support.

Case, NYU, Rochester, and Carnegie Mellon would have been invited into the Ivy League to expand it to 12 members. Case owns a winning record all-time against Ohio St, and NYU had a winning record against Rutgers until the mid-40's (Rutgers won the final 8 games they played, every game after 1938). NYU also made a Final 4 in the 50's.

I don't know how good Rochester and Carnegie ever were (other than that they were beat up on by Syracuse, PSU, and Pitt), but they are institutionally and geographically similar to the rest of the conference.

UAB
loyola marymount
Drexel
Drake
Bradley
Indiana State
Evansville
Eastern Kentucky

Since we're in fantasy land anyway - how about a Philly Big FBS 3 (all were relevant in national CFB in some part of 20th cent.):

Penn (if the IVY perimitted it to be FBS indy with schollies and it played in a renovated Franklin Field)

Villanova (if it never dropped FB in 1985, stayed indy FBS and joined BE FB in 1991 - would likely be current co-Tenant in Linc w/ Temple as they would've been co-tenant in Vet)

Temple (remaining sole FBS team in town)

(07-20-2012 02:20 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Case, NYU, Rochester, and Carnegie Mellon would have been invited into the Ivy League to expand it to 12 members. Case owns a winning record all-time against Ohio St, and NYU had a winning record against Rutgers until the mid-40's (Rutgers won the final 8 games they played, every game after 1938). NYU also made a Final 4 in the 50's.

The Ivy League wouldn't extend invites for football reasons. I believe the Ivy ban on post-season football play was established when the league was officially formed in the 50's.

(07-20-2012 12:54 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Phillips (private school in OK) that was a member of the SWC for just one year is not just no longer relevant, the school itself no longer exists. It shut its doors in 1998 from bankruptcy and part of the campus was sold to Northern Oklahoma.

Fun fact: Phillips began life as the OK counterpart to TCU, Oklahoma Christian University by the Disciples of Christ who founded both institutions.

In an alternate future, had they built off the success that got them into the SWC, they might have become the modern OK equivalent of TCU.

I'm surprised that one person knew about Phillips, even more for two people. I wonder what Enid (city that Phillips is in) would be like now if Phillips had become the TCU of Oklahoma... probably a bit nicer than it is now.

If Phillips were still around and had stayed with the SWC until its demise, the real question is would Phillips have landed in the WAC, or gone straight to Conference USA?

From 1996-99, you had the following:

WAC
I - Hawaii, Fresno State, San Diego State, San Jose State
II - UNLV, Colorado State, Air Force, Wyoming
III - BYU, Utah, New Mexico, UTEP
IV - Tulsa, TCU, SMU, Rice

Conference USA (*non football member)
Houston, Tulane, UAB*, Southern Miss, Memphis, Charlotte*, South Florida*, St. Louis*, Marquette*, DePaul*, Louisville, Cincinnati, ECU (football only starting in 1997), Army (football only starting in 1998)

Big West (*non football member)
Long Beach State*, UCSB*, Pacific*, Cal State Fullerton*, UC Irvine*, Utah State, New Mexico State, Nevada, Boise State, Cal Poly SLO*, Idaho, North Texas

Given that both the Big West and C-USA were at 12 full members, this would have put Phillips in a difficult spot. Even the Sun Belt, which would not sponsor football until 2001, was at 10 members at the time-although the Sun Belt would drop to only 8 for the 1998-99 campaign. My guess is that Phillips would have played Big West football, but other sports would have been in the Mid-Continent Conference until the Sun Belt started football in 2001:

Oral Roberts/Phillips
Buffalo (later replaced by IPFW)/Youngstown State
UMKC/Southern Utah
Western Illinois/Valparaiso
Chicago State/Northeastern Illinois (later replaced by IUPUI)

(07-20-2012 01:42 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  What if the schools that consider themselves "Southern Ivy League" had gone ahead and formed the "Magnolia Conference"?
* Duke
* Rice
* SMU
* Tulane
* Vanderbilt
* Wake Forest
* Emory
* Richmond

The ACC might have invited Syracuse & Pitt much earlier, and would only have 12 teams (only 2 in the state of NC).

The Magnolia League, even today, makes a lot of sense. Considering those school's sports facilities, lack of football accomplishments (SMU has some, but, ya know...), lack of basketball accomplishments (Except Duke), etc.

The Magnolia League would be very similar to the Ivy League in short order too...

It would be irrelevant in all sports, except for every once in a blue moon...

(07-21-2012 05:05 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The Magnolia League would be very similar to the Ivy League in short order too...

It would be irrelevant in all sports, except for every once in a blue moon...

If the Ivy had scholarships, I think their basketball would be pretty good. Even without scholarships they, generally, have one pretty good team. Harvard being said team this past season. Cornell being that team, later on, in Donahue's tenure.

You know what would have been an awesome conference if all these teams were FBS and had grown to major U. status.....

Louisville
Kentucky
Western Kentucky
Eastern Kentucky
Northern Kentucky
Murray St.
Morehead St.
Kentucky St.
U. Pike
Bellarmine
U. of the Cumberlands
Transylvania

Wow! That would have been really neato!!

(07-20-2012 01:42 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  What if the schools that consider themselves "Southern Ivy League" had gone ahead and formed the "Magnolia Conference"?
* Duke
* Rice
* SMU
* Tulane
* Vanderbilt
* Wake Forest

The ACC might have invited Syracuse & Pitt much earlier, and would only have 12 teams (only 2 in the state of NC).

You could add Miami, Baylor, TCU, and Tulsa to that list and have a nice 10 team, private school conference.

(07-21-2012 09:07 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(07-20-2012 01:42 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  What if the schools that consider themselves "Southern Ivy League" had gone ahead and formed the "Magnolia Conference"?
* Duke
* Rice
* SMU
* Tulane
* Vanderbilt
* Wake Forest

The ACC might have invited Syracuse & Pitt much earlier, and would only have 12 teams (only 2 in the state of NC).

You could add Miami, Baylor, TCU, and Tulsa to that list and have a nice 10 team, private school conference.

Miami is the only school that would be academically fit enough. They also would have stayed at 8 members, like the Ivy League.

US News Rankings

#10 Duke
#17 Rice
#17 Vanderbilt
#20 Emory
#25 Wake Forest
#27 Richmond
#38 Miami
#50 Tulane
#62 SMU
#75 Baylor
#75 Tulsa
#97 TCU

W&M would be in the ACC instead of VT

It's really an amazing topic.

Also amazing to think where we could be in 20-30 years.. what irrelevant schools in 20-30 years will be relevant? What schools that are relevant today won't be by then?