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War on Drugs leading to more HIV/AIDS
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I'mMoreAwesomeThanYou Offline
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Post: #301
RE: War on Drugs leading to more HIV/AIDS
(07-17-2012 02:47 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(07-17-2012 02:33 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  Gays are going to Hell. Not because I said so but because God says so.

The one word of wisdom that UCF has put out there (even a broken clock) it's that too many Christians pick a pet sin to really hate at the expense of others.

In person I tend not to lean too much on picking up one sin because even a straight, married, upstanding person is deserving of hell for *something*. When you start trying to share the gospel with someone and lead with *you're gay so you're going to hell* it takes away from the fact that all sin does it.

It's just the way its perceived. Were I talking to an unsaved homosexual I would not mention their homosexuality as a reason for needing Christ unless they being it up. The fact they cheat on their taxes, or hate in their heart is enough.

Quote:I for one would rather they didn't. But unless they turn away that is their fate...and one they must want. They know the consequences but still do it.

I would speak clearly here. It's not the homosexual inclination that damns one to hell, it's the unrepentant practice. There will be Gay people in heaven, of that I have no doubt (just as their will be drug addicts, alcoholics, and people who struggle with pedophilia).

They will be the people who struggled with these sins, who saw they were sins, who abstained as much as they could from them, and leaned on Christ in doing so.

I didn't pick this sin...they did. I didn't mean to imply everyone in Heaven would be perfect. Clearly that's not the case. In the eyes of the Lord no sin is worse than another but believing in Christ and wallowing in homosexuality or finding a church that tells you its not a sin so you feel better about yourself isn't the way either. I'm sure there are gays that acknowledge their homosexuality is a sin and struggle with it. I have no doubt those people can go to heaven.
07-17-2012 02:53 PM
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UCF08 Offline
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Post: #302
RE: War on Drugs leading to more HIV/AIDS
(07-17-2012 02:48 PM)OLD DIRTY Wrote:  
(07-17-2012 02:18 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Buuuuuut, that's never been legislated nor attempted to be legislated in any legitimate manner.

Quote: It’s come to this…
Religious people and Christians who refuse to marry gays can get sued thanks to the new gay marriage law.
So much for freedom of religion.
The New York Post reported:

Call them New York’s Refuseniks.

Rosemary Centi has per formed marriage ceremonies in upstate Guilderland for the past 10 years, hitching hundreds of satisfied men and women. For good, she hopes.

This morning, Centi (pictured) is doing her last wedding.

“I am Catholic,” she told me, “and my definition of marriage is between a man and a woman. It is a sacrament.”

Laura Fotusky has joined couples in holy matrimony in the tiny upstate town of Barker for four years. Her run ends Thursday.

“I’m a Christian,” Fotusky told me. “As a Christian, I have to follow the word of God.”

Until I told Fotusky about Centi, she didn’t know her sister in protest existed. But these women are paired by a deep, spiritual bond. One that defies New York’s Marriage Equality Act, which takes effect Sunday.

Centi and Fotusky refuse to wed people of the same sex. After praying and agonizing for weeks, each public servant came to an identical conclusion: They’d rather quit than unite.

On July 11, Fotusky, 57, wrote an emotional letter to Barker officials. She resigned as town clerk of the hamlet near Buffalo, which has a population of just over 2,700. Her resignation takes effect Thursday, three days before gay marriage becomes the law of the state…

“I believe that there is a higher law than the law of the land,” Fotusky wrote to town officials. “It is the law of God in the Bible.”

A gay couple denied service by a DJ, not to mention a florist or wedding band, has grounds to sue in Civil Court, a Cuomo spokesman told me.

Fotusky has learned, to her amazement, that she has no right to religious freedom in her home state.

“I was struggling so much with making the decision” whether to resign, she said. “It was a matter of conviction.

“And if you really believe, you have to act on it. As a Christian, I have to follow the word of God.”

It’s an Obama world.

Um, that is a government employee quitting over her religious beliefs, not a religious employee being forced by the government to go against their beliefs. If it's someones religion not to converse with any males not related to them, they don't get some special 'women only' line, they just can't work the job, which is exactly what is going on here.

It is not at all even remotely the same in the least, not by a long shot, and you are just bad at this whole debating thing.

Quote:So your provision against pedophilia is based only on societies laws? mans laws? So if those laws change its ok with you?

Well that's not at all the same argument, but of course not. There are inherent moral standards that are fairly similar throughout all cultures which we abide by, you know, those same rules that we based our nation on.
07-17-2012 03:03 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #303
RE: War on Drugs leading to more HIV/AIDS
(07-17-2012 03:03 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  
Quote:So your provision against pedophilia is based only on societies laws? mans laws? So if those laws change its ok with you?

Well that's not at all the same argument, but of course not. There are inherent moral standards that are fairly similar throughout all cultures which we abide by, you know, those same rules that we based our nation on.

Oh don't play games, it's tiresome. You've been yelling that people should shut up about homosexuality because "Jesus never talked about it". You've also said the most important thing is *your personal* relationship with the Bible (oddly not Jesus but I digress)..

Now..

Quote:There are inherent moral standards that are fairly similar throughout all cultures

Such as Marriage between men and women?
07-17-2012 03:06 PM
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UCF08 Offline
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Post: #304
RE: War on Drugs leading to more HIV/AIDS
Quote:Oh don't play games, it's tiresome. You've been yelling that people should shut up about homosexuality because "Jesus never talked about it". You've also said the most important thing is *your personal* relationship with the Bible (oddly not Jesus but I digress)..

Actually, no I haven't, I was simply defending Toms statement which is undeniably correct, jesus says nothing about homosexuality. Does that mean it's not a sin, not necessarily no. Notice I never argued that point though, did i? You really need to learn to read the threads better because I keep getting the impression you skim until you see something that you don't like, and reply. The only problem with that is that you have a bad habit of replying without any sense of context, which does nothing but result in pedantic arguments like this that go nowhere.

Quote:Such as Marriage between men and women?

Not all moralistic standards are to be kept, many are simply just a holdover from far more prejudicial and ignorant times. I fully support the right for any religious institution to deny marrying anyone for any reason (and they do, they refuse many heterosexual couples for example), but that is distinctly separate from the right for a committed couple to gain the same government benefits regardless of their sex.
07-17-2012 03:12 PM
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OLD DIRTY Offline
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Post: #305
RE: War on Drugs leading to more HIV/AIDS
(07-17-2012 03:12 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  but that is distinctly separate from the right for a committed couple to gain the same government benefits regardless of their sex.

So what the hell is so wrong with Civil Unions as to they aren't good enough, based on your above argument?

BTW, if you knew how to read you'd see that anyone can be sucessfully sued for not marrying the queers in NY... which includes priest, photographers, dj's, etc. (ie. forcing false religion)
07-17-2012 03:30 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #306
RE: War on Drugs leading to more HIV/AIDS
(07-17-2012 03:12 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  
Quote:Oh don't play games, it's tiresome. You've been yelling that people should shut up about homosexuality because "Jesus never talked about it". You've also said the most important thing is *your personal* relationship with the Bible (oddly not Jesus but I digress)..

Actually, no I haven't, I was simply defending Toms statement which is undeniably correct, jesus says nothing about homosexuality. Does that mean it's not a sin, not necessarily no. Notice I never argued that point though, did i? You really need to learn to read the threads better because I keep getting the impression you skim until you see something that you don't like, and reply. The only problem with that is that you have a bad habit of replying without any sense of context, which does nothing but result in pedantic arguments like this that go nowhere.
[/quote]

So stop playing around.... Do you or do you not think it's a sin and on what basis... It's all cool that you can run cover behind Tom... But *you* screamed that Jesus did not mention it..

It absolutely isn't a requirement, and you're not addressing his question. Where did Jesus ever condemn homosexuality? -UCF

did Jesus say anything about homosexuality - UCF

WHERE DOES JESUS CONDEMN HOMOSEXUALITY? - UCF


Quote:Not all moralistic standards are to be kept, many are simply just a holdover from far more prejudicial and ignorant times.

Maybe thats the case for pedophilia... It must be nice to use your gut to pick and choose what is good and what is not.
07-17-2012 03:37 PM
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Post: #307
RE: War on Drugs leading to more HIV/AIDS
(07-17-2012 03:37 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Maybe thats the case for pedophilia...

Straw man.

Let's confine the conversation to consenting adults, please.
07-17-2012 03:41 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #308
RE: War on Drugs leading to more HIV/AIDS
(07-17-2012 03:41 PM)Smaug Wrote:  
(07-17-2012 03:37 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Maybe thats the case for pedophilia...

Straw man.

Let's confine the conversation to consenting adults, please.

Why?

In terms of theology why?

On the civil side I'm with you, little comparison between the two (not that I don't expect a push to nomralize nominally pedo relationships in the next decade or so). But theologically if you can take one sin and throw it away because (1) Jesus did not mention it and (2) that's what your personal relationship tells you then why not another.

If you'd rather not have a theological discussion don't wade into one.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2012 03:45 PM by Bull_In_Exile.)
07-17-2012 03:44 PM
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UCF08 Offline
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Post: #309
RE: War on Drugs leading to more HIV/AIDS
(07-17-2012 03:30 PM)OLD DIRTY Wrote:  
(07-17-2012 03:12 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  but that is distinctly separate from the right for a committed couple to gain the same government benefits regardless of their sex.

So what the hell is so wrong with Civil Unions as to they aren't good enough, based on your above argument?

BTW, if you knew how to read you'd see that anyone can be sucessfully sued for not marrying the queers in NY... which includes priest, photographers, dj's, etc. (ie. forcing false religion)

Source?

And I fully agree with the creation of civil unions, and the full absolution of marriage from being controlled by any government body. Marriage is a religious institution, and those who are arguing so loudly about the government infringing upon their religious freedom on this issue should be leading this charge. If you believe that marriage is such an important and valuable part of your religion, you should have every desire to separate it from any form of government control/regulation.

Quote:So stop playing around.... Do you or do you not think it's a sin and on what basis... It's all cool that you can run cover behind Tom... But *you* screamed that Jesus did not mention it..

And not a single one of those quotes even implies I'm marking the argument that it necessarily means something, those I was responding to weren't replying to Toms question in a legitimate manner, and I was pointing that out. I have no desire to get into the discussion above, though.

Quote:On the civil side I'm with you, little comparison between the two (not that I don't expect a push to nomralize nominally pedo relationships in the next decade or so). But theologically if you can take one sin and throw it away because (1) Jesus did not mention it and (2) that's what your personal relationship tells you then why not another.

Because I can believe a 2000 year old document that has been unarguably used in instances to control a population and demonize others to not be infallible? I don't get the issue you're having with this, honestly. My religion is between me and jesus, not between me and you.
07-17-2012 04:09 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #310
RE: War on Drugs leading to more HIV/AIDS
(07-17-2012 04:09 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  Because I can believe a 2000 year old document that has been unarguably used in instances to control a population and demonize others to not be infallible?

Oh cupcake... is that any way to talk about a book with which you have a personal relationship...
07-17-2012 04:11 PM
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UCF08 Offline
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Post: #311
RE: War on Drugs leading to more HIV/AIDS
I'm a pragmatist, sue me.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2012 04:12 PM by UCF08.)
07-17-2012 04:12 PM
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Post: #312
RE: War on Drugs leading to more HIV/AIDS
(07-17-2012 04:12 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I'm a bleeding heart liberal who doesn't know what it means to be a Christian because it doesn't always suit me and what makes me feel good, sue me.

FIFY....these altered quotes never get old do they. I crack myself up.
07-17-2012 04:16 PM
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UCF08 Offline
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Post: #313
RE: War on Drugs leading to more HIV/AIDS
(07-17-2012 04:16 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  
(07-17-2012 04:12 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I'm a bleeding heart liberal who doesn't know what it means to be a Christian because it doesn't always suit me and what makes me feel good, sue me.

FIFY....these altered quotes never get old do they. I crack myself up.

Well, it's funny you word it that way because I think that jesus would fit the bill of 'bleeding heart liberal' on most issues seeing as how he literally bled to death rather than punishing those who were harming him.
07-17-2012 04:22 PM
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I'mMoreAwesomeThanYou Offline
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Post: #314
RE: War on Drugs leading to more HIV/AIDS
(07-17-2012 04:22 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  
(07-17-2012 04:16 PM)ImMoreAwesomeThanYou Wrote:  
(07-17-2012 04:12 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I'm a bleeding heart liberal who doesn't know what it means to be a Christian because it doesn't always suit me and what makes me feel good, sue me.

FIFY....these altered quotes never get old do they. I crack myself up.

Well, it's funny you word it that way because I think that jesus would fit the bill of 'bleeding heart liberal' on most issues seeing as how he literally bled to death rather than punishing those who were harming him.

Fail.
07-17-2012 05:29 PM
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UCF08 Offline
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Post: #315
RE: War on Drugs leading to more HIV/AIDS
He didn't bleed to death rather than punish those who murdered him? Huh, there's more lost to translation than I could even imagine.
07-17-2012 09:07 PM
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