I know, I know. I've brought this up before, but I want know who all would agree or disagree with apprenticeships being an educational pathway in this country (or your state for that matter) and why. Do you have a specific system that you would like to see us emulate?

Who would lead the program? Donald Trump?

First two years of HS are core classes (english, maths, basic sciences). 2nd two years students make a decision to pursue college prep (advanced core classes, research methods, etc.) or technical degree (I would recommend contracting out with some local community colleges or businesses who train and certify). Technical degrees are ready to join the work force with a skill and HS diploma, while college prep actually have the skills needed to succeed in college.

I'm assuming this is what you mean.

(06-26-2012 12:42 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Who would lead the program? Donald Trump?

Ha. Great.

(06-26-2012 12:49 AM)T-Monay820 Wrote:  First two years of HS are core classes (english, maths, basic sciences). 2nd two years students make a decision to pursue college prep (advanced core classes, research methods, etc.) or technical degree (I would recommend contracting out with some local community colleges or businesses who train and certify). Technical degrees are ready to join the work force with a skill and HS diploma, while college prep actually have the skills needed to succeed in college.

I'm assuming this is what you mean.

That's one method and a good one. We need to really decide what absolutely, positively requires 4 years of college and what can be learned in a couple of years on the job. Right now we really consider the jobs that apprentices work up to are plumber, carpenter, electrician, etc. In countries like Germany a qualified person could earn a CPA from apprenticing from 16 to 19. There are about 350 registered job titles under their program.

(06-26-2012 01:00 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(06-26-2012 12:49 AM)T-Monay820 Wrote:  First two years of HS are core classes (english, maths, basic sciences). 2nd two years students make a decision to pursue college prep (advanced core classes, research methods, etc.) or technical degree (I would recommend contracting out with some local community colleges or businesses who train and certify). Technical degrees are ready to join the work force with a skill and HS diploma, while college prep actually have the skills needed to succeed in college.
I'm assuming this is what you mean.

That's one method and a good one. We need to really decide what absolutely, positively requires 4 years of college and what can be learned in a couple of years on the job. Right now we really consider the jobs that apprentices work up to are plumber, carpenter, electrician, etc. In countries like Germany a qualified person could earn a CPA from apprenticing from 16 to 19. There are about 350 registered job titles under their program.

Absolutely.

Of course. Only a moron would disagree.

I have essentially learned my job with on the job training and "apprenticing". When I graduated I knew I wouldn't find a job in my field and luckily my bosses were willing to teach me how to use live audio equipment and I have made a pretty lucrative career out of something my bosses worked with me on for about a year.

I think that it could also solve our uner-25 unemployment.

(06-26-2012 12:26 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I know, I know. I've brought this up before, but I want know who all would agree or disagree with apprenticeships being an educational pathway in this country (or your state for that matter) and why. Do you have a specific system that you would like to see us emulate?

Quite frankly, since the avg % of college degreed people in the US is around 30% - this is exactly what should be happening with the majority of the other 70%.

Unfortunately, the education lobby has successfully created a system where they try and force feed a college prep curriculum on the vast majority of H.S. students. This means that when they graduate - they have NO marketable skill sets other than they showed up and graduated.

Agree, Crebman. Many school districts have totally cut out Vocational Ed programs, which to me is silly. Many kids could have benefitted from them and gotten started in a technical or trades career had they not been cut.

The trend towards trying to fit all kids into a college track is like trying to pound round pegs into square holes.

Bill Clinton pushed the idea of an apprenticeship/vocational-education/work-study program. Because it came from a democrat, republicans opposed it and it never got anywhere with a republican congress. But it was a damned good idea. Still is.

As long as a proposal like this was enacted at the state or local level, I'm fine with it. What we don't need is for the Feds to propose or fund it, because then it gets politicized and your state can lose funding for many reasons. Local control of local education under state guidelines is a states' rights issue.

Depends all on how its implemented...

If states and school districts want to put up more schools with that mentality? *GREAT*

If the fed wants to 'drive us there' then not so much..

(06-26-2012 01:04 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  As long as a proposal like this was enacted at the state or local level, I'm fine with it. What we don't need is for the Feds to propose or fund it, because then it gets politicized and your state can lose funding for many reasons. Local control of local education under state guidelines is a states' rights issue.

I'm pretty sure NC offers it as an alternative option of type of HS diploma. I know my school had a three track graduation option (we did things differently from the state, all of which was pretty much a tougher curriculum). We had college prep, technical, and community college tracks. But the only one they ever pushed was college prep. Our counselors were relatively useless, and that's where a lot of the problem was.

I'm fine with vocational schools popping up around my town. i'd also like to see internships where a kid studying to be an electrician works with one during the summers when there is no school. A lot of these trades need to be licensed and a course on obtaining a contractors license might help.

(06-26-2012 02:28 PM)T-Monay820 Wrote:  

(06-26-2012 01:04 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  As long as a proposal like this was enacted at the state or local level, I'm fine with it. What we don't need is for the Feds to propose or fund it, because then it gets politicized and your state can lose funding for many reasons. Local control of local education under state guidelines is a states' rights issue.

I'm pretty sure NC offers it as an alternative option of type of HS diploma. I know my school had a three track graduation option (we did things differently from the state, all of which was pretty much a tougher curriculum). We had college prep, technical, and community college tracks. But the only one they ever pushed was college prep. Our counselors were relatively useless, and that's where a lot of the problem was.

Yeah. I wonder what high school you went to because we have the same description of what went on.

The names of what we had were Career Track, College-Tech, and College-University. The funding and attention to the career track was spotty. My two county schools had CNA training, Agriculture, Cosmetology, Auto-tech, Carpentry, Culinary Arts and I believe we had masonry. If one school didn't have a program, you could bus to the other for half of the day.

Where our counselors really messed up was the College-Tech pathway. They really tried to push you past the middle track into University because of the federal funding for smaller towns that send the most kids to universities. (I'm going to be real Canadian and differentiate between Unis and colleges). They've really contributed to this culture where it's better to have a degree and $50,000 + in debt than to get an AAS with $1,000 in debt.

(06-26-2012 12:26 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I know, I know. I've brought this up before, but I want know who all would agree or disagree with apprenticeships being an educational pathway in this country (or your state for that matter) and why. Do you have a specific system that you would like to see us emulate?

I think it should be apprenticeship programs.

The US is a big country, I'd hate to see central planning hand down a single program or try to force everyone to emulate one style.

(06-26-2012 12:56 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Bill Clinton pushed the idea of an apprenticeship/vocational-education/work-study program. Because it came from a democrat, republicans opposed it and it never got anywhere with a republican congress. But it was a damned good idea. Still is.

Yes. Historically speaking, it was THE manner in which a man evolved from mere poverty to prosperity for many decades.

To answer the question...Yes. I think schools should offer an apprenticeship program. This country is in dire need of skilled labor. I can't tell you how many roofers I called before I got one to come out and do the work. At least 15. I've had the same problem with plumbers. Most things I can fix myself but sometimes I need a professional and its way too hard to find a good one.

On a side note the crew that actually did the work on my roof were of..shall we say...illegal decent(Mexican) and they did great work, were very friendly, and CLEANED UP before they left. That doesn't mean they should't be deported though...