I was reading a BYU fan website (sorry - I'm not sure how to link, or if I'm even supposed to do that). But in reading comments about the BE ... some seemed open to the idea, but most were hostile. I'll admit that's a small and unscientific sample.

I believe that feeling contradicts with their athletic department and the school in general. I think BYU as an institution was very interested in joining the BE if the contracts could be worked out.

The school seems to have a realistic view of BYU, the BE, and the current college football landscape. I'm not sure the fans see things the same way.

(06-15-2012 08:42 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I was reading a BYU fan website (sorry - I'm not sure how to link, or if I'm even supposed to do that). But in reading comments about the BE ... some seemed open to the idea, but most were hostile. I'll admit that's a small and unscientific sample.

I believe that feeling contradicts with their athletic department and the school in general. I think BYU as an institution was very interested in joining the BE if the contracts could be worked out.

The school seems to have a realistic view of BYU, the BE, and the current college football landscape. I'm not sure the fans see things the same way.

1. We KNOW what the BYU administration thinks. They would have signed on with the Big East had the BE been able to guarantee the TV deal payouts and exposure schedule. The AD admitted as much in an interview a few months back.

2. Fans will come around. Especially this coming November/December when their team is playing for nothing against blah opponents. The games will lose their luster. Right about the same time as we are negotiating with all networks after the 60-day window ends. Once we have the hard numbers, and they would increase BYU's revenue and exposure by joining, their fans will quickly be singing a different tune.

3. Clemson and FSU fans were also not in favor of staying in the ACC either.....

Once the Borg leadership makes a move official, the rest of the collective will fall in line and act like they supported it all along. Trust.

(06-15-2012 08:42 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I was reading a BYU fan website (sorry - I'm not sure how to link, or if I'm even supposed to do that). But in reading comments about the BE ... some seemed open to the idea, but most were hostile. I'll admit that's a small and unscientific sample.

I believe that feeling contradicts with their athletic department and the school in general. I think BYU as an institution was very interested in joining the BE if the contracts could be worked out.

The school seems to have a realistic view of BYU, the BE, and the current college football landscape. I'm not sure the fans see things the same way.

Life time Aztec fan here who happens to be LDS w a daughter attending BYU. IMO, most BYU fans would consider moving to the BE a mistake at the moment.

The fans were really stung when Utah was invited to the PAC while they were left behind. There is a rivalry between those 2 schools that is fierce to say the least (Hatfield and McCoys). You pretty much bleed Red or Royal Blue in that State. I can understand their frustrations; for most of my lifetime, they have dominated Utah (and the rest of us) and clearly had the superior FB program. It is only in the last decade or so, that Utah really established itself as a quality program on the gridiron.

BYU fans want, and feel they deserve a seat at a table, with the "Big Boys;" they see themselves as being B12 or PAC worthy and anything less would be a step back for them in the eyes of most of their fanbase.

The school has to figure out a way to close the $$ gap that Utah currently enjoys as a member of the PAC. Unless we can show them some serious $$$ and work with them in regard to BYUTV, I don't see them leaving independence for the current BE.

I would love to see them added as they usually field a pretty solid product, and again, imo, I think we need all the solid programs we can attract in the BE. Let's face it, nationally, people are skeptical of the quality of many of the teams (my Aztecs) now in the BE. Adding BYU would improve this perception.

Most BYU fans I've spoken to aren't happy with independence, for what that's worth.

I'm certainly one of the more pro-BE BYU fans you'll meet (after all, I'm here, right?). I think that opposition to the BE is a bit overrated. Some BYU fans might not like the idea of going to the BE right now, but a lot of them hated the idea of independence right up until the official announcement to go indy.

The funny thing is, some BYU fans still see college football through 2010 glasses, despite the obvious changes to the landscape. They forget that independence was a lifeboat from the MWC, not a yacht unto itself.

They'll come around. Truth is, getting over the Big12 has been hard to take for a lot of BYU fans. Right up until FSU trustees starting shooting their mouths off about leaving the ACC, many BYU fan were convinced (without evidence) that it was BYU and Louisville to the Big12. I guess it's hard to let go of that dream.

But once the BigEast gets a commissioner, the realignment carousel stops and the BigEast looks stable, and inks a good TV deal, it'll look like a better option for many BYU fans.

It's just going to take a few months, but it'll happen.

(06-15-2012 08:42 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I was reading a BYU fan website (sorry - I'm not sure how to link, or if I'm even supposed to do that). But in reading comments about the BE ... some seemed open to the idea, but most were hostile. I'll admit that's a small and unscientific sample.

I believe that feeling contradicts with their athletic department and the school in general. I think BYU as an institution was very interested in joining the BE if the contracts could be worked out.

The school seems to have a realistic view of BYU, the BE, and the current college football landscape. I'm not sure the fans see things the same way.

Here's where the disconnect is in terms of understanding the thinking at BYU.

The athletic department probably would prefer to join a conference overall. Most fans seem to want to join a conference, too, although there's a big gap between the number of fans that would want to join the Big 12 (where almost all fans would rather join them than be independent) compared to the Big East (where there is much more of a split of whether that's more desirable compared to independence).

However, the "administration" at BYU is unlike 99.9% of other universities. Not even the university president has ultimate authority there. Instead, the LDS leaders themselves run BYU, and they have a completely different set of thinking. Those LDS leaders are the ones infatuated with independence, the building of BYUtv, and having games on ESPN. They look at BYU football as a vehicle to spread their message, which is why exposure in and of itself legitimately matters more than more TV money or late season scheduling issues.

So, you're not dealing with a university president or athletic director when you[re talking to BYU. Instead, you're literally dealing with a church. As of now, those church leaders do NOT want to join a conference.

(06-15-2012 09:32 AM)San Juan Sun Wrote:  I'm certainly one of the more pro-BE BYU fans you'll meet (after all, I'm here, right?). I think that opposition to the BE is a bit overrated. Some BYU fans might not like the idea of going to the BE right now, but a lot of them hated the idea of independence right up until the official announcement to go indy.

The funny thing is, some BYU fans still see college football through 2010 glasses, despite the obvious changes to the landscape. They forget that independence was a lifeboat from the MWC, not a yacht unto itself.

They'll come around. Truth is, getting over the Big12 has been hard to take for a lot of BYU fans. Right up until FSU trustees starting shooting their mouths off about leaving the ACC, many BYU fan were convinced (without evidence) that it was BYU and Louisville to the Big12. I guess it's hard to let go of that dream.

But once the BigEast gets a commissioner, the realignment carousel stops and the BigEast looks stable, and inks a good TV deal, it'll look like a better option for many BYU fans.

It's just going to take a few months, but it'll happen.

Good take. FWIW--The Houston AD said at a recent meet and greet event this week that the expected numbers are between 13-17 million a team for all sports. That would put football onlys at around 9-12 million (assumming a 70/30 football to basketball split.

(06-15-2012 09:42 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(06-15-2012 08:42 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I was reading a BYU fan website (sorry - I'm not sure how to link, or if I'm even supposed to do that). But in reading comments about the BE ... some seemed open to the idea, but most were hostile. I'll admit that's a small and unscientific sample.

I believe that feeling contradicts with their athletic department and the school in general. I think BYU as an institution was very interested in joining the BE if the contracts could be worked out.

The school seems to have a realistic view of BYU, the BE, and the current college football landscape. I'm not sure the fans see things the same way.

Here's where the disconnect is in terms of understanding the thinking at BYU.

The athletic department probably would prefer to join a conference overall. Most fans seem to want to join a conference, too, although there's a big gap between the number of fans that would want to join the Big 12 (where almost all fans would rather join them than be independent) compared to the Big East (where there is much more of a split that's more desirable compared to independence).

However, the "administration" at BYU is unlike 99.9% of other universities. Not even the university president has ultimate authority there. Instead, the LDS leaders themselves run BYU, and they have a completely different set of thinking. Those LDS leaders are the ones infatuated with independence, the building of BYUtv, and having games on ESPN. They look at BYU football as a vehicle to spread their message, which is why exposure in and of itself legitimately matters more than more TV money or late season scheduling issues.

So, you're not dealing with a university president or athletic director when you[re talking to BYU. Instead, you're literally dealing with a church. As of now, those church leaders do NOT want to join a conference.

I can't speak for the other posters in this thread, but there is no disconnect here. I am very well aware of how the university hierarchy is set up.

I still stand by what I said. As of now they don't want to join a Conference. That will likely change, in my opinion, come December.

(06-15-2012 09:42 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(06-15-2012 08:42 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I was reading a BYU fan website (sorry - I'm not sure how to link, or if I'm even supposed to do that). But in reading comments about the BE ... some seemed open to the idea, but most were hostile. I'll admit that's a small and unscientific sample.

I believe that feeling contradicts with their athletic department and the school in general. I think BYU as an institution was very interested in joining the BE if the contracts could be worked out.

The school seems to have a realistic view of BYU, the BE, and the current college football landscape. I'm not sure the fans see things the same way.

Here's where the disconnect is in terms of understanding the thinking at BYU.

The athletic department probably would prefer to join a conference overall. Most fans seem to want to join a conference, too, although there's a big gap between the number of fans that would want to join the Big 12 (where almost all fans would rather join them than be independent) compared to the Big East (where there is much more of a split that's more desirable compared to independence).

However, the "administration" at BYU is unlike 99.9% of other universities. Not even the university president has ultimate authority there. Instead, the LDS leaders themselves run BYU, and they have a completely different set of thinking. Those LDS leaders are the ones infatuated with independence, the building of BYUtv, and having games on ESPN. They look at BYU football as a vehicle to spread their message, which is why exposure in and of itself legitimately matters more than more TV money or late season scheduling issues.

So, you're not dealing with a university president or athletic director when you[re talking to BYU. Instead, you're literally dealing with a church. As of now, those church leaders do NOT want to join a conference.

Than I really hope there's no more waiting (if that's wht we're doing) and we invite Air Force now and a couple of other west schools as soon after the TV deal is done as possible. We have to do something for the west side of the conference for long term viability.

Timing is critical for BYU coming to Big East. BYU's entry would solidify Big East as an undeniable Power 6 conference, which Big 12 will not want to facilitate (recall TCU).

We are in a window where UT AD Deloss Dodds and his Big 12 minions would have to back off their "no plans for expansion" stance if they went after BYU. We urgently need BYU, and my prediction is if this drags out into 2013 or later that Big 12 will eventually conclude it's better to grab them than let them further legitimize The Big East.

Texas and other Big 12 schools are already anticipating a recruiting issue with TAMU going into SEC, and the last thing they want is Houston and SMU's Big East association giving Texas recruits another option for wide open offenses and superior national exposure. BYU coming into the Big East will be seen as a major threat.

If BYU is going to have any value they have to come in BEFORE the TV deal. Hence the need for either a decision by BYU or the Big East to move on IMO.

(06-15-2012 09:42 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(06-15-2012 08:42 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I was reading a BYU fan website (sorry - I'm not sure how to link, or if I'm even supposed to do that). But in reading comments about the BE ... some seemed open to the idea, but most were hostile. I'll admit that's a small and unscientific sample.

I believe that feeling contradicts with their athletic department and the school in general. I think BYU as an institution was very interested in joining the BE if the contracts could be worked out.

The school seems to have a realistic view of BYU, the BE, and the current college football landscape. I'm not sure the fans see things the same way.

Here's where the disconnect is in terms of understanding the thinking at BYU.

The athletic department probably would prefer to join a conference overall. Most fans seem to want to join a conference, too, although there's a big gap between the number of fans that would want to join the Big 12 (where almost all fans would rather join them than be independent) compared to the Big East (where there is much more of a split that's more desirable compared to independence).

However, the "administration" at BYU is unlike 99.9% of other universities. Not even the university president has ultimate authority there. Instead, the LDS leaders themselves run BYU, and they have a completely different set of thinking. Those LDS leaders are the ones infatuated with independence, the building of BYUtv, and having games on ESPN. They look at BYU football as a vehicle to spread their message, which is why exposure in and of itself legitimately matters more than more TV money or late season scheduling issues.

So, you're not dealing with a university president or athletic director when you[re talking to BYU. Instead, you're literally dealing with a church. As of now, those church leaders do NOT want to join a conference.

I agree with most of what you say, but your conclusion is a bit off. The church is not against joining a conference. However, the church DOES have certain requirements that must be met over and above the normal athletic and monetary calculations that a normal university would consider. For the most part, the church is locked in on these requirements. The Big 12 wasnt going to guarantee BYU "X" number of nationally televised games, no Sunday play, and deal with the requirements of BYUtv. Theres only one conference that may make enough money, that would be viewed as a step up from the Mountain West, and that is willing to grant the allowances that the LDS church will demand. Thats the Big East---and even the Big East may not be willing to grant everything the LDS church wants---the real question is "Can they get close enough to strike a deal?".

(06-15-2012 09:32 AM)San Juan Sun Wrote:  I'm certainly one of the more pro-BE BYU fans you'll meet (after all, I'm here, right?). I think that opposition to the BE is a bit overrated. Some BYU fans might not like the idea of going to the BE right now, but a lot of them hated the idea of independence right up until the official announcement to go indy.

The funny thing is, some BYU fans still see college football through 2010 glasses, despite the obvious changes to the landscape. They forget that independence was a lifeboat from the MWC, not a yacht unto itself.

They'll come around. Truth is, getting over the Big12 has been hard to take for a lot of BYU fans. Right up until FSU trustees starting shooting their mouths off about leaving the ACC, many BYU fan were convinced (without evidence) that it was BYU and Louisville to the Big12. I guess it's hard to let go of that dream.

But once the BigEast gets a commissioner, the realignment carousel stops and the BigEast looks stable, and inks a good TV deal, it'll look like a better option for many BYU fans.

It's just going to take a few months, but it'll happen.

Yeah...don't get this thread at all.

Believe EVERYONE on this board realizes that BYU and the Big East need to work out a lot of details first before the Big East's #1 remaining choice signs on the dotted line...and those main issues are:

1) BYU has a long-term agreement with ESPN through 2018. What fees/penalties would BYU have to pay to cancel that agreement and/or if ESPN wins the new TV deal with the Big East Conf, how will those payments to BYU be affected?

2) Big East is still 6 plus months out to signing a new long-term TV deal...and since BYU already has a long-term deal with ESPN, BYU will not jump ship for football only and only later find out its for less $$$ vs what they were getting previously before.

3) BYUTV is a huge investment for the School/Church (worldwide distribution) and they currently are allowed TV rights to one football game per year plus scores of other program from the Univ.

How will that arrangement changed if BYU joins a conf and a certain US Networks owns 100% to all rights (including replays)?

4) BYU currently playing as an Independent, has scores of contracts going out years in advance...and what would be the cost to BYU to cancel and/or change most of those games in the coming years?

Big East is giving BYU "time"...as many of these unknowns will be a lot more clearer by Nov/Dec of this year....because as of right now, Big East is in a good position to not need new another football team ASAP because the Big East already has enough members to host their first ever Conf Championship Game in 2012. (Navy's not joining till 2015).

Nothing new to see...but things should start to heat up...especially if/when Big East TV package hits the open market in Nov (after ESPN's exclusive 60 day window).

I'm still shocked that somebody went to BYU's DOS based message board and was able to make sense of it..

(06-15-2012 09:57 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  If BYU is going to have any value they have to come in BEFORE the TV deal. Hence the need for either a decision by BYU or the Big East to move on IMO.

Its very unlikely that team #14 will be decided by Sept. We dont even have a commissioner and we probably wont get one until Sept. The network contract will simply be bid 3 ways with 3 pay options.

Example---

14 team Big East with BYU-17 mill
14 team Big East with Air Force-16 mill
14 team Big East with Fresno-15 million

(06-15-2012 10:15 AM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(06-15-2012 09:57 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  If BYU is going to have any value they have to come in BEFORE the TV deal. Hence the need for either a decision by BYU or the Big East to move on IMO.

Its very unlikely that team #14 will be decided by Sept. We dont even have a commissioner and we probably wont get one until Sept. The network contract will simply be bid 3 ways with 3 pay options.

Example---

14 team Big East with BYU-17 mill

Agree...every TV Network knows exactly who the Big East has already invited (i.e. BYU) and $$$ figures/amounts will be set for their inclusion or exclusion.

(06-15-2012 09:59 AM)attackfrog Wrote:  I agree with most of what you say, but your conclusion is a bit off. The church is not against joining a conference. However, the church DOES have certain requirements that must be met over and above the normal athletic and monetary calculations that a normal university would consider. For the most part, the church is locked in on these requirements. The Big 12 wasnt going to guarantee BYU "X" number of nationally televised games, no Sunday play, and deal with the requirements of BYUtv. Theres only one conference that may make enough money, that would be viewed as a step up from the Mountain West, and that is willing to grant the allowances that the LDS church will demand. Thats the Big East---and even the Big East may not be willing to grant everything the LDS church wants---the real question is "Can they get close enough to strike a deal?".

True, although I think what BYU has been demanding on the TV rights front makes it almost impossible to be anything other than independent. I think the TV *exposure* is what's critical more than anything else (much more than Sunday play, which I think is a red herring for BYU supporters who want to believe that's why talks with the Big 12 fell through).

It's also important to note that BYU left the MWC largely because it did NOT want to work with Comcast anymore *specifically* on those TV rights issues. If the MWC had a deal with ESPN instead of Comcast, BYU might never have left. Essentially, BYU turned independent *because* of Comcast. (To be sure, there were other factors like Utah leaving, but Comcast made the decision easy for BYU.) This can't be emphasized enough. That's a pretty big deal considering that the Big East is hoping that Comcast is a major bidder (if not the ultimate winner) on the new TV rights package. Trust me on this from what I've seen from BYU people: working with Comcast again is as much of a non-starter for BYU as playing games on Sunday for them. That's how much Comcast is loathed at that school and that complicates things a ton for the Big East trying to lure BYU.

Regardless, I think Air Force is much more realistic for the Big East and it makes sense as a pairing with Navy. BYU is simply a very complicated entity to work with on a lot of levels.

(06-15-2012 10:08 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(06-15-2012 09:32 AM)San Juan Sun Wrote:  I'm certainly one of the more pro-BE BYU fans you'll meet (after all, I'm here, right?). I think that opposition to the BE is a bit overrated. Some BYU fans might not like the idea of going to the BE right now, but a lot of them hated the idea of independence right up until the official announcement to go indy.

The funny thing is, some BYU fans still see college football through 2010 glasses, despite the obvious changes to the landscape. They forget that independence was a lifeboat from the MWC, not a yacht unto itself.

They'll come around. Truth is, getting over the Big12 has been hard to take for a lot of BYU fans. Right up until FSU trustees starting shooting their mouths off about leaving the ACC, many BYU fan were convinced (without evidence) that it was BYU and Louisville to the Big12. I guess it's hard to let go of that dream.

But once the BigEast gets a commissioner, the realignment carousel stops and the BigEast looks stable, and inks a good TV deal, it'll look like a better option for many BYU fans.

It's just going to take a few months, but it'll happen.

Yeah...don't get this thread at all.

Believe EVERYONE on this board realizes that BYU and the Big East need to work out a lot of details first before the Big East's #1 remaining choice signs on the dotted line...and those main issues are:

1) BYU has a long-term agreement with ESPN through 2018. What fees/penalties would BYU have to pay to cancel that agreement and/or if ESPN wins the new TV deal with the Big East Conf, how will those payments to BYU be affected?

2) Big East is still 6 plus months out to signing a new long-term TV deal...and since BYU already has a long-term deal with ESPN, BYU will not jump ship for football only and only later find out its for less $$$ vs what they were getting previously before.

3) BYUTV is a huge investment for the School/Church (worldwide distribution) and they currently are allowed TV rights to one football game per year plus scores of other program from the Univ.

How will that arrangement changed if BYU joins a conf and a certain US Networks owns 100% to all rights (including replays)?

4) BYU currently playing as an Independent, has scores of contracts going out years in advance...and what would be the cost to BYU to cancel and/or change most of those games in the coming years?

Big East is giving BYU "time"...as many of these unknowns will be a lot more clearer by Nov/Dec of this year....because as of right now, Big East is in a good position to not need new another football team ASAP because the Big East already has enough members to host their first ever Conf Championship Game in 2012. (Navy's not joining till 2015).

Nothing new to see...but things should start to heat up...especially if/when Big East TV package hits the open market in Nov (after ESPN's exclusive 60 day window).

This is dead on. If BYU joins it wont be until the 2015 season with Navy. Even when they join, its very possible that the first 3 years BYU is in the league, thier home games will continue to be ESPN property and will not fall under the Big East tv contract. Its really not that big of deal for a few years. I believe the same thing occurred when ECU had an independent TV contract and joined CUSA.

I think the Big 12 believes it can expand at any time it wants, so no rush (which is probably true given that it is more respected than either the ACC or NBE). Our fight is not with them, but with ACC and in some respects with PAC. We have got to win over the public with our product on the field. BYU would be an integral product in that regard. So would NBC.