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2013 Football Recruiting
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #361
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
(02-07-2013 02:25 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  Rivals has all of our preferred walk-ons listed as commits. Many weren't on the site days ago and now reflect their base 5.2 two star rating. Scout also added them all as NR. I don't really care about the ratings but those that do should understand that we only had 14 scholarships to give yet signed 24 guys...

So walk-ons sign LOI as well?

I admit I don't fully understand the system.
02-07-2013 02:29 PM
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HuskieTap22 Offline
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Post: #362
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
(02-07-2013 02:29 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(02-07-2013 02:25 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  Rivals has all of our preferred walk-ons listed as commits. Many weren't on the site days ago and now reflect their base 5.2 two star rating. Scout also added them all as NR. I don't really care about the ratings but those that do should understand that we only had 14 scholarships to give yet signed 24 guys...

So walk-ons sign LOI as well?

I admit I don't fully understand the system.

I am not totally up with this either. I don't think walk-ons can sign but preferred walks-ons are able to. From what I can tell on our boards a lot of these guys are preferred walk-ons. Not sure what that translates into as far as what we owe them for signing with us.

EDIT: Per wikipedia:

A college coach/recruiter may designate an athlete as a "preferred walk-on" during the scouting process. In this situation, the athlete is assured a spot on the team, but the coach is unable or unwilling to offer a scholarship.
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2013 02:39 PM by HuskieTap22.)
02-07-2013 02:34 PM
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niusfactuary Offline
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Post: #363
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
(02-07-2013 11:18 AM)pbott Wrote:  Interesting article about player rankings from CBS Sports:

Odds of Becoming an All-American, by Recruiting Ranking
5–Star: 1 in 4.
Top 100: 1 in 6.
4–Star: 1 in 16.
3–Star: 1 in 56.
2–Star: 1 in 127.
All FBS Signees: 1 in 45.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball.../21641769/

Incidentally, Woodley for Umass is a 3 star, but he's a 5.7 and very close to a 4 star recruit. Undoubtedly the highest rated player to ever attend Umass (until next year). I smell a MAC championship in a couple of years

The MAC is a QB driven league. Don't get your hopes up.
02-07-2013 03:32 PM
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BrianNowicki Offline
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Post: #364
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
Preferred walk-on's do not sign National Letter of Intents. NLI's have scholarship info on them and preferred walk-on's are not getting scholarships. Preferred walk-on's sign a letter that states they intend on going to schools X to play football and pay their own way. That letter is kept on file at the MAC office. Even though they signed it, they are not bound to going to that school in the fall though, and could end up going to any DI FBS school that fall and be eligible to play football. They are a preferred walk-on so they get to practice with the team in August (regular walk-on's have to wait until school starts up in the fall), but there also cannot be more than 20 preferred walk-on's in a football program at any given time.

Many schools list their preferred walk-on's on signing day, with their class. If NIU did not differentiate them from scholarship players in the release they sent Rivals then Rivals would not know that 10 of those guys are preferred walk-on's and should not even be listed in the signing class. Only scholarship players are supposed to be listed on Rivals, and count towards the rankings.

Rivals uses the top 20 players in each class. It is the same for all schools. I've heard this complaint from NIU fans every single year........"we're being penalized in the recruit rankings because we only had 15 scholarships available." How is it that NIU always seems to only have around 15-20 scholarships available year after year? No other school has that same problem. Every once in a while, yes.....but every year, no. The math doesn't even add up unless they are red-shirting every single freshman and never losing any student-athletes throughout their career. And every school loses some athletes throughout their career.
02-07-2013 03:48 PM
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DICK Offline
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Post: #365
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
Ranking football recruits in the MAC is extremely inaccurate. The can't miss top prospects do not come to the MAC.

Prospects are rated on how good they are as Seniors in high school. That does not really predict who will be the best as College Seniors. Many/most of the higher rated guys who come into the MAC are already maxed out as far as physical development. The great recruiters are the ones who can project how a young man might develop and recruit the guys with the most upside. So can this athletic 6-5 230 lb guy become an athletic 300 lb OL in 3 years. He might get no stars now, but be ALL MAC for his 4th and 5th seasons.

I enjoy following recruiting, and I follow it close enough to know that the rankings mean much less at the MAC level than they do at the Big Ten/SEC level. We need to find guys who in 3 years can be just as good as the guy that Michigan State signed is right now. Often it is better to get two star or no star guys with upside than 3 star guys who are already maxed out.

Basketball recruits are far more easily evaluted, you can watch them play a game or two and really know all about them. Watching a TE get thrown to 4 times in a game really doesn't tell you much about his abilities/potential. Football recruiting rankings at this level should always be taken with a grain of salt. While there may be some correlation to later success/failure, it is far less accurate than most any other ranking you will see. I feel far more confident that OSU and Michigan were at the top of Big Ten recruiting this year than I do that UT and BG were at the top of the MAC this year. Some rated Miami #1 last year, but it sure did not look like it by season's end. On the other hand, poorly rated Miami classes a few years ago won a MACC in 2010.
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2013 11:36 PM by DICK.)
02-07-2013 11:32 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #366
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
(02-07-2013 11:32 PM)DICK Wrote:  Ranking football recruits in the MAC is extremely inaccurate. The can't miss top prospects do not come to the MAC.

Prospects are rated on how good they are as Seniors in high school. That does not really predict who will be the best as College Seniors. Many/most of the higher rated guys who come into the MAC are already maxed out as far as physical development. The great recruiters are the ones who can project how a young man might develop and recruit the guys with the most upside. So can this athletic 6-5 230 lb guy become an athletic 300 lb OL in 3 years. He might get no stars now, but be ALL MAC for his 4th and 5th seasons.

I enjoy following recruiting, and I follow it close enough to know that the rankings mean much less at the MAC level than they do at the Big Ten/SEC level. We need to find guys who in 3 years can be just as good as the guy that Michigan State signed is right now. Often it is better to get two star or no star guys with upside than 3 star guys who are already maxed out.

Basketball recruits are far more easily evaluted, you can watch them play a game or two and really know all about them. Watching a TE get thrown to 4 times in a game really doesn't tell you much about his abilities/potential. Football recruiting rankings at this level should always be taken with a grain of salt. While there may be some correlation to later success/failure, it is far less accurate than most any other ranking you will see. I feel far more confident that OSU and Michigan were at the top of Big Ten recruiting this year than I do that UT and BG were at the top of the MAC this year. Some rated Miami #1 last year, but it sure did not look like it by season's end. On the other hand, poorly rated Miami classes a few years ago won a MACC in 2010.

Your points are well taken, BUT with summer camps it is possible to do a better job of evaluation.

It is possible to time them, check out their muscular development and size, and compare their agility and skill set against comparables at the same position.

Better to time athletes at your camp than to take some presumably unreliable time for an unknown source.

This is also done in hoops.
02-08-2013 05:59 AM
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pono Offline
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Post: #367
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
prospects are mostly rated on what they did junior yr and the following summer camps
02-08-2013 07:55 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #368
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
(02-08-2013 07:55 AM)pono Wrote:  prospects are mostly rated on what they did junior yr and the following summer camps

Yes, and that is where the MAC can sleep the 'late bloomer' the kid who actually puts it together in his senior year of h.s.

Yes, super talent usually develops earlier and can be well evaluated in the 11th grade.

It's the old test score game: A kid with 1,100 out of 1,600 on the SAT taking in his junior year has more 'upside' than a kid who scored 1,100 in his senior year.
02-08-2013 09:10 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #369
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
(02-07-2013 03:48 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  I've heard this complaint from NIU fans every single year........"we're being penalized in the recruit rankings because we only had 15 scholarships available." How is it that NIU always seems to only have around 15-20 scholarships available year after year? No other school has that same problem. Every once in a while, yes.....but every year, no. The math doesn't even add up unless they are red-shirting every single freshman and never losing any student-athletes throughout their career. And every school loses some athletes throughout their career.

Presumably, the preferred walk-ons are working out well enough to earn a scholarship.

If it's working that way, great. Better than taking a chance on 5 more incoming freshmen. I'd love to see the whole MAC suffer from such an abundance of riches.
02-08-2013 09:12 AM
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El Grande Flippero Offline
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Post: #370
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
(02-08-2013 09:10 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(02-08-2013 07:55 AM)pono Wrote:  prospects are mostly rated on what they did junior yr and the following summer camps

Yes, and that is where the MAC can sleep the 'late bloomer' the kid who actually puts it together in his senior year of h.s.

Yes, super talent usually develops earlier and can be well evaluated in the 11th grade.

It's the old test score game: A kid with 1,100 out of 1,600 on the SAT taking in his junior year has more 'upside' than a kid who scored 1,100 in his senior year.

This is how BGSU got DT Darius Holiday from American Heritage in FL. The tools were there but they weren't translating. This year Holiday put things together and the coach who recuits the area, Nick Monroe, started hearing things like "we can't block him" from area coaches. We were able to land him because he wasn't generating any buzz until this year. He was a ** guy everywhere but 247 (who had him a hair under ****) . If they can put the 30-40lbs of quality weight on him that they want to w/o destroying his athleticism, he's going to be a monster in the MAC
02-08-2013 11:12 AM
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BarsemaBone2 Offline
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Post: #371
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
(02-08-2013 09:12 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(02-07-2013 03:48 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  I've heard this complaint from NIU fans every single year........"we're being penalized in the recruit rankings because we only had 15 scholarships available." How is it that NIU always seems to only have around 15-20 scholarships available year after year? No other school has that same problem. Every once in a while, yes.....but every year, no. The math doesn't even add up unless they are red-shirting every single freshman and never losing any student-athletes throughout their career. And every school loses some athletes throughout their career.

Presumably, the preferred walk-ons are working out well enough to earn a scholarship.

If it's working that way, great. Better than taking a chance on 5 more incoming freshmen. I'd love to see the whole MAC suffer from such an abundance of riches.

You'd be surprised at how often that's happened at NIU. Just on last year's team 3 of the 15 seniors who finished their careers were preferred walk-ons initially (Jason Schepler, Rashaan Melvin, Ryan Neir).
02-08-2013 11:20 AM
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El Grande Flippero Offline
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Post: #372
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
The thing that bugs me about Rivals is using the "avg stars" info. BGSU had three guys with ***, but we had 13 that were ranked 5.4...or .1 from ***. Using avg stars counts them as much as a kid who's a given ** because he signed a letter.
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2013 11:30 AM by El Grande Flippero.)
02-08-2013 11:29 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #373
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
(02-08-2013 11:12 AM)El Grande Flippero Wrote:  
(02-08-2013 09:10 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(02-08-2013 07:55 AM)pono Wrote:  prospects are mostly rated on what they did junior yr and the following summer camps

Yes, and that is where the MAC can sleep the 'late bloomer' the kid who actually puts it together in his senior year of h.s.

Yes, super talent usually develops earlier and can be well evaluated in the 11th grade.

It's the old test score game: A kid with 1,100 out of 1,600 on the SAT taking in his junior year has more 'upside' than a kid who scored 1,100 in his senior year.

This is how BGSU got DT Darius Holiday from American Heritage in FL. The tools were there but they weren't translating. This year Holiday put things together and the coach who recuits the area, Nick Monroe, started hearing things like "we can't block him" from area coaches. We were able to land him because he wasn't generating any buzz until this year. He was a ** guy everywhere but 247 (who had him a hair under ****) . If they can put the 30-40lbs of quality weight on him that they want to w/o destroying his athleticism, he's going to be a monster in the MAC

that's how it should be done in the MAC and recruiting DTs who can play is a real find.
02-08-2013 01:03 PM
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wmubroncopilot Offline
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Post: #374
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
(02-08-2013 11:29 AM)El Grande Flippero Wrote:  The thing that bugs me about Rivals is using the "avg stars" info. BGSU had three guys with ***, but we had 13 that were ranked 5.4...or .1 from ***. Using avg stars counts them as much as a kid who's a given ** because he signed a letter.

That's not how the classes are ranked. Points are given in the rankings based directly off the Rivals Rating i.e. the 5.4, 5.5 etc.
02-08-2013 01:13 PM
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uakronkid Offline
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Post: #375
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
On a totally unrelated note, I attended Akron's recruiting press conference, and Terry Bowden looks like he dropped 50 lbs since the end of the season.
02-08-2013 06:11 PM
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BrianNowicki Offline
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Post: #376
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
(02-08-2013 01:13 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  
(02-08-2013 11:29 AM)El Grande Flippero Wrote:  The thing that bugs me about Rivals is using the "avg stars" info. BGSU had three guys with ***, but we had 13 that were ranked 5.4...or .1 from ***. Using avg stars counts them as much as a kid who's a given ** because he signed a letter.

That's not how the classes are ranked. Points are given in the rankings based directly off the Rivals Rating i.e. the 5.4, 5.5 etc.

Correct. I think I said this earlier in this thread, but on Rivals a 5.5 three star is not worth as much in the team rankings as a 5.6 or especially a 5.7 three star prospect. Now Scout I believe does it the way Flip was talking about.
02-09-2013 01:02 AM
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Campbell4President Offline
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Post: #377
RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
Scout's list of top recruiter in each conference:

http://toledo.scout.com/2/1265031.html
02-09-2013 01:36 AM
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El Grande Flippero Offline
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RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
No love for BGSU's Nick Monroe? He landed **** RB Fred Coppet and *** RB Marcus Levy and a host of FL kids with major interest from other programs.
02-09-2013 10:14 AM
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NIU05 Offline
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RE: 2013 Football Recruiting
I like what Miami and CMU did this year. CMU's looks like an old fashion CMU class, not much praise with solid OL recruits.
02-10-2013 09:47 AM
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