(06-01-2012 01:11 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(06-01-2012 01:05 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(06-01-2012 12:55 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  I would think a big part of the SB holding firm at 10 is that they are waiting for realignment to play out more before making another move. They probably figure that they can wait and invite App State and Ga Southern if necessary. The wildcard is that App State, Ga Southern, Liberty, Jax State move to the WAC. The WAC commissioner said they will exhaust all options to keep the conference alive. The risk for the Sun Belt is if the WAC East occurs and the CUSA takes MTSU, FAU and/or Ga State then who does the Sun Belt turn to? I would imagine that the WAC East would create strong penalties for leaving to make sure everyone is committed to the new league. The SBC could be left with 7 or 8 schools with no good options available. They could easily kill that possibility by adding App State and Ga Southern now.

The WAC won't be in a position to enact strong exit penalties.

Why would anyone, current WAC members or incoming east members tie themselves to this conference with a prohibitive exit fee? You think Idaho or NMSU wants to risk signing that exit fee and then finally getting an invite from the MWC? Furthermore, the FCS schools in the east are the ones with the power, the WAC needs them more than they need the WAC. Yes the WAC is their entrance to FBS, but the FCS schools aren't in danger of moving backwards, if it doesn't go through, they're still right where they started, Idaho and NMSU are the ones on the sinking ship.

The new schools that are moving FBS and joining the conference would want to make sure that everyone is committed to the league. Otherwise it is too risky to move FBS then have two or more members immediately leave for another conference which could cause the WAC East to collapse. The only way the WAC east happens is that all of the schools are committed to staying for at least 3-5 years. Therefore, everyone would have to agree to strong exit penalties to ensure that the league is not immediately raided.

But that's just the problem, no one will want to commit to that. It will be a marriage of convenience like Idaho/NMSU/USU with the Sun Belt. Perhaps people would commit to it if it were a diminishing exit fee. An agreed upon amount for x amount of year and then diminishes by a certain amount each year after that.

(06-01-2012 01:15 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(06-01-2012 01:11 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(06-01-2012 01:05 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(06-01-2012 12:55 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  I would think a big part of the SB holding firm at 10 is that they are waiting for realignment to play out more before making another move. They probably figure that they can wait and invite App State and Ga Southern if necessary. The wildcard is that App State, Ga Southern, Liberty, Jax State move to the WAC. The WAC commissioner said they will exhaust all options to keep the conference alive. The risk for the Sun Belt is if the WAC East occurs and the CUSA takes MTSU, FAU and/or Ga State then who does the Sun Belt turn to? I would imagine that the WAC East would create strong penalties for leaving to make sure everyone is committed to the new league. The SBC could be left with 7 or 8 schools with no good options available. They could easily kill that possibility by adding App State and Ga Southern now.

The WAC won't be in a position to enact strong exit penalties.

Why would anyone, current WAC members or incoming east members tie themselves to this conference with a prohibitive exit fee? You think Idaho or NMSU wants to risk signing that exit fee and then finally getting an invite from the MWC? Furthermore, the FCS schools in the east are the ones with the power, the WAC needs them more than they need the WAC. Yes the WAC is their entrance to FBS, but the FCS schools aren't in danger of moving backwards, if it doesn't go through, they're still right where they started, Idaho and NMSU are the ones on the sinking ship.

The new schools that are moving FBS and joining the conference would want to make sure that everyone is committed to the league. Otherwise it is too risky to move FBS then have two or more members immediately leave for another conference which could cause the WAC East to collapse. The only way the WAC east happens is that all of the schools are committed to staying for at least 3-5 years. Therefore, everyone would have to agree to strong exit penalties to ensure that the league is not immediately raided.

But that's just the problem, no one will want to commit to that. It will be a marriage of convenience like Idaho/NMSU/USU with the Sun Belt. Perhaps people would commit to it if it were a diminishing exit fee. An agreed upon amount for x amount of year and then diminishes by a certain amount each year after that.

I think they would agree to the strong exit penalty as the risk of the league collapsing is more damaging than the risk or not being able to move if you received another offer. Essentially, all schools that would move to the WAC currently have no other FBS offer. The mindset is that we want to be FBS and the WAC is the only option, therefore we must all agree to stick with the WAC for 3-5 years if we want to be FBS. Otherwise it is too risky for the schools to join the WAC. It is either you are committed to the WAC or no FBS. It is the only way it would work and I think that would be a reasonable agreement for all of the schools.

(06-01-2012 01:15 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(06-01-2012 01:11 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  

(06-01-2012 01:05 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(06-01-2012 12:55 PM)GSU Eagles Wrote:  I would think a big part of the SB holding firm at 10 is that they are waiting for realignment to play out more before making another move. They probably figure that they can wait and invite App State and Ga Southern if necessary. The wildcard is that App State, Ga Southern, Liberty, Jax State move to the WAC. The WAC commissioner said they will exhaust all options to keep the conference alive. The risk for the Sun Belt is if the WAC East occurs and the CUSA takes MTSU, FAU and/or Ga State then who does the Sun Belt turn to? I would imagine that the WAC East would create strong penalties for leaving to make sure everyone is committed to the new league. The SBC could be left with 7 or 8 schools with no good options available. They could easily kill that possibility by adding App State and Ga Southern now.

The WAC won't be in a position to enact strong exit penalties.

Why would anyone, current WAC members or incoming east members tie themselves to this conference with a prohibitive exit fee? You think Idaho or NMSU wants to risk signing that exit fee and then finally getting an invite from the MWC? Furthermore, the FCS schools in the east are the ones with the power, the WAC needs them more than they need the WAC. Yes the WAC is their entrance to FBS, but the FCS schools aren't in danger of moving backwards, if it doesn't go through, they're still right where they started, Idaho and NMSU are the ones on the sinking ship.

The new schools that are moving FBS and joining the conference would want to make sure that everyone is committed to the league. Otherwise it is too risky to move FBS then have two or more members immediately leave for another conference which could cause the WAC East to collapse. The only way the WAC east happens is that all of the schools are committed to staying for at least 3-5 years. Therefore, everyone would have to agree to strong exit penalties to ensure that the league is not immediately raided.

But that's just the problem, no one will want to commit to that. It will be a marriage of convenience like Idaho/NMSU/USU with the Sun Belt. Perhaps people would commit to it if it were a diminishing exit fee. An agreed upon amount for x amount of year and then diminishes by a certain amount each year after that.

I believe that is what he is saying.

Example exit fee for leaving after only one year in WAC 100 million.
After 2 years in WAC 75 million.
After 3 years in WAC 50 million.
After 4 years in WAC 25 million.
After 5 years in WAC 5 Million or what ever the fee is now inside the WAC.

i apologize for singling out tuba players.

if you played piccolo or trombone and get on here ad nauseum suggesting further expansion consider yourself in my sh!t pile as well.

the reason i singled out tuba players is because it's a funny looking instrument and if you say 'tuba player' an image immediately comes to mind. and you don't see that image in your mind's eye sitting around a highly polished mahogany conference table amongst university presidents discussing conference additions.

the reason i singled out former band members is because the only subject that brings out more idiocy than potential conference expansion is when this board turns into wiener measuring between the band folks.

it's a veritable boner bonanza where you can literally hear the schhhhhh-wing jump from this website.

i'll try to only make fun of golfers in the future. you might as well play for the school bowling team. or rifle...with those sweet bb guns. or crew.

(06-01-2012 11:00 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  I continue to think we will eventually get one of App or Southern, but thats partially because I am not sure how much longer it will be before the next round starts. If the NCAA begins to place a moratorium on move-ups, I expect we will be forced to make a move before it begins just in case there is another round.

I think you are right in that I believe if the numbers and logistics work that we might well see the league go to a 12/14 or 12/15 or 14/16 alignment.

A moratorium requires action by the NCAA board, that requires that there be notice given to the board that the matter is on the agenda and there will be a comment period.

You don't open the paper one day and discover there is a moratorium. You have notice that it is coming up for consideration. If you get that notice and are concerned about being cut off from potential targets and you want those targets, you hastily arrange a teleconference of the university presidents. If the consensus is to take them, you start calling schools. If they are interested you extend invites and they file their notice of intent to reclassify. The moratorium comes up for vote and if it passes, no one new can move up except for those who had begun the process (ie. filed notice) prior to the moratorium being adopted.

This "we gotta take them because there might be a moratorium" talk is a red herring.

Exit penalties are a fool's game.

#1. Anyone who thinks they might have something new and shiny coming their way, won't support the exit penalty being any larger than what they think the new and shiny is worth.
#2. In many jurisdictions statute or case law provides that association or partnership departure penalties cannot be so high that it is punative in nature and must bear some relation to the damage done. If Big East signs the mega TV deal they claim to expect, what damages are being done by the schools departing? They are ponying up because they don't want to hang around to see what the actual damages are.
#3. Since the exit penalty can't be high enough to keep anyone from leaving, the penalty serves no purpose.