What would happen if NBC over bid on the worth of the NBE and had clauses in the contract to increase the value if any other schools from another conference would join that would increase the value?

The question I'm asking is do you think if the money was bigger than anyone expected and lets say 3-5 million greater than the ACC Contract per team would any ACC schools bail to join the NBE?

Yes.

(05-29-2012 11:55 AM)billetingman1 Wrote:  What would happen if NBC over bid on the worth of the NBE and had clauses in the contract to increase the value if any other schools from another conference would join that would increase the value?

The question I'm asking is do you think if the money was bigger than anyone expected and lets say 3-5 million greater than the ACC Contract per team would any ACC schools bail to join the NBE?

I would think Pitt and Syracuse might rethink leaving. Why pay exit fees for an inferior contract? Other than that, there probably wouldnt be any other takers for the same reason.

The BE contract would have to be significantly better because the ACC exit fee is 20 million. Unless significant damage is done to the ACC via raids, I think a larger conrtract would stabilize the Big East, but would be unlikley to lure in new members of "superior" conferences. I guess if the Big East contract was to be a ridiculous 25 million a year, that might change the way the landscape is viewed, but a marginal pay difference probably would have little effect. So, a 3-5 million dollar difference is probably not quite enough--- but the more you move above a 5 million dollar difference toward a 10 million dollar difference, I would think that might be enough to get some inquiries.

(05-29-2012 11:55 AM)billetingman1 Wrote:  What would happen if NBC over bid on the worth of the NBE and had clauses in the contract to increase the value if any other schools from another conference would join that would increase the value?

The question I'm asking is do you think if the money was bigger than anyone expected and lets say 3-5 million greater than the ACC Contract per team would any ACC schools bail to join the NBE?

Would we have room to fit them? An ACC team would want an all sports invite, bumping basketball up to 19 (?) and football potentially to 15. And that's if the Big East lands a better deal, and ALSO no matter how good a deal the Big East gets people are still going to think of us as the #6 conference in the nation, i.e. ACC to Big East would be a step down to the nation and the teams seeking entry would know this.

Florida State won't join us. Clemson won't join us. I'd recommend we keep as far away from Miami as possible. VTech is courting the SEC. Boston College... I mean they'd be good and all, but only to stir the pot in the Northeast as I hear they have entrenched rivalries with UConn and the like, but their sports are forgettable and attendance on the downtrend. Who does that leave? Wake Forest? Virginia? Do we want to inject them into the fold?

(05-29-2012 12:29 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(05-29-2012 11:55 AM)billetingman1 Wrote:  What would happen if NBC over bid on the worth of the NBE and had clauses in the contract to increase the value if any other schools from another conference would join that would increase the value?

The question I'm asking is do you think if the money was bigger than anyone expected and lets say 3-5 million greater than the ACC Contract per team would any ACC schools bail to join the NBE?

Would we have room to fit them? An ACC team would want an all sports invite, bumping basketball up to 19 (?) and football potentially to 15. And that's if the Big East lands a better deal, and ALSO no matter how good a deal the Big East gets people are still going to think of us as the #6 conference in the nation, i.e. ACC to Big East would be a step down to the nation and the teams seeking entry would know this.

Florida State won't join us. Clemson won't join us. I'd recommend we keep as far away from Miami as possible. VTech is courting the SEC. Boston College... I mean they'd be good and all, but only to stir the pot in the Northeast as I hear they have entrenched rivalries with UConn and the like, but their sports are forgettable and attendance on the downtrend. Who does that leave? Wake Forest? Virginia? Do we want to inject them into the fold?

If any of those teams were seeking to join the BE, the BE leaders would find room for them, in a hot minute. The same way when Kansas and KSU and Baylor etc.. were interested in potentially coming to the BE. Marinatto was all set to offer an invite. The reason is because those teams would help to stabilize the BE and offer a truly eastern footprint, not to mention that they are current bcs teams that would move the BE up on the prestige ladder.

(05-29-2012 11:55 AM)billetingman1 Wrote:  What would happen if NBC over bid on the worth of the NBE and had clauses in the contract to increase the value if any other schools from another conference would join that would increase the value?

The question I'm asking is do you think if the money was bigger than anyone expected and lets say 3-5 million greater than the ACC Contract per team would any ACC schools bail to join the NBE?

The answer is no. We went through this last year. Everyone thought the BE was sitting pretty with an upcoming TV contract, but instead the BE lost teams to the ACC, not the other way around.

I don't even think teams in the BE will stay if invited to the ACC.

The trouble is Rutgers, UConn, Cincinnati, South Florida and louisville would all leave for the Big 12 or the ACC in a New York minute, if asked just like Cuse, Pitt and the Rers did.

(05-29-2012 12:45 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  The trouble is Rutgers, UConn, Cincinnati, South Florida and louisville would all leave for the Big 12 or the ACC in a New York minute, if asked just like Cuse, Pitt and the Rers did.

So Wilkie your telling me Louisville would go to the ACC if invited for a locked in contract that would be less to my hypothetical question?

No but it will not happen that way!

(05-29-2012 11:55 AM)billetingman1 Wrote:  What would happen if NBC over bid on the worth of the NBE and had clauses in the contract to increase the value if any other schools from another conference would join that would increase the value?

The question I'm asking is do you think if the money was bigger than anyone expected and lets say 3-5 million greater than the ACC Contract per team would any ACC schools bail to join the NBE?

The problem with the hypothetical: those clauses don't exist because:

(1) That's where tortious interference claims come from, where one party induces Conference A to raid Conference B. ESPN, NBC or any other network would be idiots to write that it would automatically increase rights fees for expansion in an email, much less in an actual contract.

(2) Networks don't want to just automatically pay for expansion with anyone. The Big Ten can't expand with MAC teams and get paid more simply because of expansion in and of itself. As a result, networks want to know who a conference is an expanding with (and that goes for everyone, including the SEC and Big Ten).

(3) You can't put into a contract that "We'll pay you more if you add Florida State, Miami and a list of other marquee schools" to avoid point #2 because of the tortious interference issue under point #1.

That's why these TV contracts only have nebulous and vague "look in" clauses that really aren't more than "we'll agree to talk reasonably later" in the event of expansion.

As a side note, I really hope people here aren't seriously believing that the Big East will get more than the ACC. If that happens, then it happens and I'll gladly eat crow, but I don't believe that's a reasonable expectation as of today. It's fine to be optimistic that the Big East will get a much better deal than the current one, but it's another thing to get your hopes up to a level where you'll end up being incredibly disappointed. I've said previously that the Big East should expect something pretty much right in the middle of the high estimates that we've seen reported (where the sources are media consultants representing sports leagues and teams, so they have an interest in keeping the perception that there's a bull market for *all* sports rights even if they aren't that valuable) and the low estimates (where the sources are network people that have the exact opposite interest and want to keep rights fees as low as possible).

(05-29-2012 12:56 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(05-29-2012 11:55 AM)billetingman1 Wrote:  What would happen if NBC over bid on the worth of the NBE and had clauses in the contract to increase the value if any other schools from another conference would join that would increase the value?

The question I'm asking is do you think if the money was bigger than anyone expected and lets say 3-5 million greater than the ACC Contract per team would any ACC schools bail to join the NBE?

The problem with the hypothetical: those clauses don't exist because:

(1) That's where tortious interference claims come from, where one party induces Conference A to raid Conference B. ESPN, NBC or any other network would be idiots to write that it would automatically increase rights fees for expansion in an email, much less in an actual contract.

(2) Networks don't want to just automatically pay for expansion with anyone. The Big Ten can't expand with MAC teams and get paid more simply because of expansion in and of itself. As a result, networks want to know who a conference is an expanding with (and that goes for everyone, including the SEC and Big Ten).

(3) You can't put into a contract that "We'll pay you more if you add Florida State, Miami and a list of other marquee schools" to avoid point #2 because of the tortious interference issue under point #1.

That's why these TV contracts only have nebulous and vague "look in" clauses that really aren't more than "we'll agree to talk reasonably later" in the event of expansion.

As a side note, I really hope people here aren't seriously believing that the Big East will get more than the ACC. If that happens, then it happens and I'll gladly eat crow, but I don't believe that's a reasonable expectation as of today. It's fine to be optimistic that the Big East will get a much better deal than the current one, but it's another thing to get your hopes up to a level where you'll end up being incredibly disappointed. I've said previously that the Big East should expect something pretty much right in the middle of the high estimates that we've seen reported (where the sources are media consultants representing sports leagues and teams, so they have an interest in keeping the perception that there's a bull market for *all* sports rights even if they aren't that valuable) and the low estimates (where the sources are network people that have the exact opposite interest and want to keep rights fees as low as possible).

Thanks Frank! No I don't think we will get more. I was just asking the question because it seemed possible that Conferences could get around with clauses. What you mentioned above makes scense.

I've been in India on business for almost a month. This place will make you think more to make the time pass faster. 4 more days

(05-29-2012 12:56 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(05-29-2012 11:55 AM)billetingman1 Wrote:  What would happen if NBC over bid on the worth of the NBE and had clauses in the contract to increase the value if any other schools from another conference would join that would increase the value?

The question I'm asking is do you think if the money was bigger than anyone expected and lets say 3-5 million greater than the ACC Contract per team would any ACC schools bail to join the NBE?

The problem with the hypothetical: those clauses don't exist because:

(1) That's where tortious interference claims come from, where one party induces Conference A to raid Conference B. ESPN, NBC or any other network would be idiots to write that it would automatically increase rights fees for expansion in an email, much less in an actual contract.

(2) Networks don't want to just automatically pay for expansion with anyone. The Big Ten can't expand with MAC teams and get paid more simply because of expansion in and of itself. As a result, networks want to know who a conference is an expanding with (and that goes for everyone, including the SEC and Big Ten).

(3) You can't put into a contract that "We'll pay you more if you add Florida State, Miami and a list of other marquee schools" to avoid point #2 because of the tortious interference issue under point #1.

That's why these TV contracts only have nebulous and vague "look in" clauses that really aren't more than "we'll agree to talk reasonably later" in the event of expansion.

As a side note, I really hope people here aren't seriously believing that the Big East will get more than the ACC. If that happens, then it happens and I'll gladly eat crow, but I don't believe that's a reasonable expectation as of today. It's fine to be optimistic that the Big East will get a much better deal than the current one, but it's another thing to get your hopes up to a level where you'll end up being incredibly disappointed. I've said previously that the Big East should expect something pretty much right in the middle of the high estimates that we've seen reported (where the sources are media consultants representing sports leagues and teams, so they have an interest in keeping the perception that there's a bull market for *all* sports rights even if they aren't that valuable) and the low estimates (where the sources are network people that have the exact opposite interest and want to keep rights fees as low as possible).

I guess the PAC-12 didn't get the memo that they were supposed to do so much worse than the mighty B1G and SEC. No, I won't get my hopes up too high, but my mind is open to anything happening.

(05-29-2012 12:45 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  The trouble is Rutgers, UConn, Cincinnati, South Florida and louisville would all leave for the Big 12 or the ACC in a New York minute, if asked just like Cuse, Pitt and the Rers did.

So would Memphis, Houston, SMU and UCF leave for the B12 and those schools are not in the BE yet.

You know damn well that they would! Just like TCU did. If the Big East gets screwed on its TV contract Boise and SDSU will probably reneg on the NBE, due to high cost and not enough football money to make the move worth it.

(05-29-2012 01:34 PM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  I guess the PAC-12 didn't get the memo that they were supposed to do so much worse than the mighty B1G and SEC. No, I won't get my hopes up too high, but my mind is open to anything happening.

Good news is...the last time the major conferences had their services out to bid (SEC years ago...Big Ten...Pac-12 recently...and even ACC in 2010), all projections/estimates were BLOWN AWAY when the actual numbers came in.

Hope that trend stays true for later this year.

Well, if the TV contract is sweet enough and the Big East remains able to keep realistic access to the football play-offs, I could see UConn, Rutgers and UConn staying, if BYU were added. However, that is a big unknown and a very big if.

I can't imagine the BE being a position to get such a deal. Networks do not want to pay more than they have to. It would likely only be a situation where they allow for like increases for additional (approved) teams, meaning if you add two teams, and that increases the inventory they are buying by X amount of games, they will pay for those additional games. But you never get anything for free.

Why do you think the Big Ten added Nebraska, and the SEC added Missorui and Texas A&M, and neither have attempted to renegotiate their contract? And the BE is not going to get a pgram of that caliber to leave its current place of residence.

edit: I did not see Frank's response when I typed this, whcih basically says the same thing.

(05-29-2012 03:02 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  I can't imagine the BE being a position to get such a seal. Networks do not want to pay more than they have to. It would likely only be a situation where they allow for like increases for additional (approved) teams, meaning if you add two teams, and that increases the inventory they are buying by X amount of games, they will pay for those additional games. But you never get anything for free.

Why do you think the Big Ten added Nebraska, and the SEC added Missorui and Texas A&M, and neither have attempted to renegotiate their contract? And the BE is not going to get a pgram of that caliber to leave its current place of residence.

The only way it makes sense for NBC is as a back door method of obtaining some upper tier schools that other networks thought were "locked up" for the next 15 years----surprise!

It does beg the question----what happens if another network began to employ the "ESPN" strategy of conference realignment?