(05-19-2012 09:36 AM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 07:18 AM)Chappy Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 05:59 AM)Knightsweat Wrote:  I'm simply saying if I'm TH, I write a letter like that because I know I didn't get it done. It's not a personal slam, it just a coherent observation of the facts.

To be fair, there's probably not an AD on Earth who COULD have gotten it done, unless he was also the person who draws the Nielsen lines.

He did, however, accomplish his plan B, which was to get more regional teams in the conference with us. And that is something he has been talking about for at least 3 years, maybe more.

I'm willing to bet that a portion (wont argue specific numbers) of the ECU fanbase are not as forgiving as some the ECU faithful on this board. But I could be wrong. I have family in NC, and a niece that goes to ECU. It's not all wine and roses up there with the fanbase. But if you guys are happy with the creation of those regional rivalries, more power to you. Also, no way UCF would take TH as an AD. Just saying.

The portion you speak of would be the uneducated portion of how expansion went down this cycle and the last two when it comes to ECU. If they blame Terry Holland for not getting ECU in the Big East then they simply speak from a lack of knowledge on the subject. I would also bet these would be fence sitter fans at best or fans who do not invest much in the Pirate Club or have season tickets. If they want to blame TH and no longer support ECU then I say hit the road.

UCF fans probably fail to realize the last expansion cycle was looked at as a worse disaster for ECU then this one by some of our fanbase. We had total chaos in our Athletic Dept and Academic side. Our most successful Football Coach ever had just been fired, we hired a train wreck of a HC in John Thompson all while expansion was going down. We lost TCU, Louisville, Cincinnati, USF, Charlotte, Marquette, DePaul and St. Louis so Football was wrecked and Basketball was destroyed. Not many of our fans were excited about playing a school like UCF who was coming out of the MAC with the nations longest losing streak. We did not like the addition of SMU or Rice since it was just Texas schools who had sucked in Football for their most recent history. I know I was utterly pissed and frustrated at our leadership during the 2004 expansion cycle and definitely not excited to be playing in the new CUSA especially since losing out of the Big East the last go around was a huge deal because ECU lost out on playing with WVU, Pitt, USF, Louisville, UC, etc..

This time around it stings because it is yet another rejection but for any ECU fan that looks at it rationally they know we lost out on moving to a great BB Conference but a mediocre Football Conference that when all is said and done probably won't receive as much TV money as they think and will be screwed if they lose a couple more teams. We all know the writing is on the wall that College Athletics is moving to 4 Big Conferences and the ACC as a 5th but better do something soon or even they get left behind. Big East if they can hang on to Louisville, Boise St, UCONN and Rutgers will be fine but definitely not in the club with the Big 4-5. You guys will have more TV money and damn good Basketball league so it is a good move for former CUSA schools but not the great acheivement that ECU once worked so hard for. Our dream of joining the Big East with schools like VT, Miami, WVU, Pitt, Syracuse, TCU etc.. is over and not ever coming back. The sooner our fanbase grasp that reality and deals with what we have been dealt the better. CUSA has enough talent to build around and at the end of the day it is still up to ECU to go out and win. Nothing has changed that led ECU to Top 25 finishes and Top 10 finishes with big wins over big time ranked programs other then our Conference just a little watered down for the short term.

I'm not surprised in the least that UCF fans have come in and raided this thread.

(05-19-2012 09:45 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 09:36 AM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 07:18 AM)Chappy Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 05:59 AM)Knightsweat Wrote:  I'm simply saying if I'm TH, I write a letter like that because I know I didn't get it done. It's not a personal slam, it just a coherent observation of the facts.

To be fair, there's probably not an AD on Earth who COULD have gotten it done, unless he was also the person who draws the Nielsen lines.

He did, however, accomplish his plan B, which was to get more regional teams in the conference with us. And that is something he has been talking about for at least 3 years, maybe more.

I'm willing to bet that a portion (wont argue specific numbers) of the ECU fanbase are not as forgiving as some the ECU faithful on this board. But I could be wrong. I have family in NC, and a niece that goes to ECU. It's not all wine and roses up there with the fanbase. But if you guys are happy with the creation of those regional rivalries, more power to you. Also, no way UCF would take TH as an AD. Just saying.

Well that's nice, because there's no way I'd take Tribble as an AD. On a serious note there are plenty who are upset with him. There are plenty who outright blame him for this. It's not a vocal enough group to put his job in any jeopardy, and they are wrong in their thinking but the group certainly does exist. Holland completely sold out to try to get us in, but something like this was always his backup option. I think he knew it was always the most likely option from his interactions with the BE "leadership" (use that term very loosely). The BE's main criteria for expansion was how many TV sets are in a 75 mile radius of your school. That's all the TV consultants are looking at.

I think TH's biggest mistake...especially consider his ACC "BASKETBALL" Background, was how he IGNORED ECU Hoops for so long...and put all his eggs in one basketball (just football) and came up snake eyes.

He was hired by ECU in early Sept 2004....and basically IGNORED ECU's terrible hoop facilities, terrible coaches, weak budgets, etc....for basically his first 5-6 years at ECU.

Prior to his arrival at ECU...their basketball program had just 7 winning seasons in their previous 28 years...including 6 STRAIGHT losing seasons just prior to his hiring in Sept 2004.

No clue if the outcome would have been the same (i.e. ECU staying in CUSA with some new nearby I-AA teams as members) but if he would have spent even 30% of his time on the basketball program woes ASAP in 2004, ECU might have joined in with the likes of MEMPHIS and Temple to the Big East.

Since TH was hired at ECU, UCF built a brand new 10,000 seat on-campus arena and their first ever basketball practice facilities for their men's and women's teams.

If UCF still had their tiny 4,600 seat gym....and had ignored their basketball program like TH did...UCF probably wouldn't have been a sure thing to join the Big East.

Because of TH's BASKETBALL background and his promises MADE when he was hired...most thought he was going to improve BOTH Football AND Basketball...but sadly for ECU, he focused on just 1.

That's TH's biggest flaw...ignoring the giant elephant in the room (ECU's terrible basketball program).

For the love of GOD, get off the Terry Holland trip. I live here in Greenville, have talked to Coach Holland many times, and your negative opinions of his progress as an AD, don't mean squat. The guy has run a clean program, improved facilities, convinced CUSA to bring in ODU and/or Charlotte to create more regional rivalries for Marshall and ECU, hired Jeff Lebo and Ruffin, and at the end of the day...................has earned every bit of his f*ckin paycheck. Holland's letters to the Pirate Nation are a regular occurrence. It is smart for him to do it, because it lets the Pirate faithful know what's goin on and it's a motivational tool to "stay the course". I've lived in Greenville for the past 25 years and literally breathed Pirate football, and yet there's UCF fans on here that consider themselves ECU experts and feel they get to have an opinion on a man that most surely they've never even met.

Amazing how many UCF fans know what Terry Holland should or should not have done ! He did not ignore Basketball. He did make a piss poor choice in his first hire with Ricky Stokes. Minges was not a dump and comprable to a lot of CUSA facilities. UCF had no other choice then to build something new because your old arena was a dump and not sufficient to play in CUSA.

Terry Holland looked to feed what feeds the entire Athletic budget and that is ECU Football. The endzone expansion, jumbotron and chairback seats were needed. He put focus on olympic facilities like softball, track and field, womens soccer etc..to comply with Title 9 and improve the overal athletic complex at ECU. The $15 million Basketball practice facility is much needed but would never have pushed ECU over the edge for the Big East. When Terry Holland arrived at ECU, the Football program was in a ditch with John Thompson and his first priority was to fix Football. To his credit he hired Skip Holtz when many ECU fans doubted that decision and Holtz led us to Back to Back CUSA Championships. Basketball is a dissapointment but it is not like UVA where he could just go throw a multi million dollar contract at a new coach to fix things. The Football that Holland fixed and made more profitable allowed ECU to spend $500k on Lebo that we did not have before.

(05-19-2012 06:26 AM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 05:59 AM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 05:49 AM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 05:25 AM)Knightsweat Wrote:  I'm not an ECU hater, or TH hater, but let's be honest. TH is changing "his vision" to match the reality on the streets of college football. Honestly, I think to quell his naysayers and maybe try to save his job. He has put forth alot of effort to get ECU into the BE. I applaud him for that, but he's been unsuccessful. ECU fans would be dense not to take a longer, harder look at his performance. So to me, these "letters to the fans" are just pandering efforts to stay viable. I think soon enough ECU fans that are still interested in growing ECU onward and upwards will tire of TH's excuses and whitewashing. Once again, I'm coming with nothing but respect for ECU, but TH has failed you guys.

And yes, all your quips about Tribble are fair and accurate. He pulled the rug out from under every self-respecting UCF sports fan, and it's athletics staff. UCF is worse for just having known him. I truly hope he gets a "show cause" tag. Because UCF want to win, but we want to win fair and square.

How did TH fail ECU ?? If the measuring stick was getting ECU into the Big East then he faced Mission Impossible. The leadership of the Big East has been God Awful and they have shown they were only interested in Urban Schools with Basketball and semi decent Football. They plugged their nose and took Boise St. when Boise St. has acheived more on a FB field then any school in what remains and what will be of the Big East will ever do. Schools like ECU, Southern Miss and Marshall will never get into the Big East based on who they are choosing for expansion and why. ECU did not even get a phone call or a visit from the Big East this expansion cycle. We came damn close to getting a Big East invite in 1991 when the Big East first expanded Football by adding Miami, WVU, Rutgers, VT and Temple. Our AD Dave Hart had a great working relationship with the then Big East Commissioner and the WVU and VT AD's. The Big East even back then used flawed logic and only went to 8 FB playing members when ECU was sitting right there and acheving an 11-1 #9 Final poll ranking the year the expansion went down. The Big East Commissioner called Dave Hart to let him know what a tough decision it was to select VT over ECU but it just did not happen for ECU. Our history of course would be much different if the Big East had the wisdom back then to expand to 9-10 or even 12 FB schools and ECU had grown up with Miami, WVU, VT, Pitt, Syracuse etc..as FB rivals over the past 20yrs.

Some valid points. Don't get me wrong, I understand ECU's plight. I'm simply saying if I'm TH, I write a letter like that because I know I didn't get it done. It's not a personal slam, it just a coherent observation of the facts. TH has to know that some ECU fans are going to place some blame at his doorstep. It's been long rumored that TH's relationship with the BE was strained at best. That doesn't help your University. TH knows this as well, hence the letter. He might be trying to ease the ECU fanbase's concerns, but he's also trying to smooth the waters with his employer, IMO.

Btw, completely agree with the BE leadership comment. They have left alot to be desired.

You can't quite understand what TH has been up against with the ECU fan expectations and frustrations. Those of us who have followed ECU for 20+yrs know how close we came to the Big East in 1991 and how our FB and Athletic history would be different if we had been included in 1991. We funneled that frustration into building the facilities and overall Athletic budget, Pirate Club giving etc..to prepare for the next round of expansion. As ECU fans we look around our campus and see $100 million + in facility improvements, 50k fans in the Football Stadium to watch even UAB and overall strong leadership on both the Athletic and Academic side only to see ECU passed up again because of some stupid TV market line drawn in the dirt around Greenville that does not represent our true TV market in the 10th largest and one of the fastest growing states in the country.

Terry Holland knew damn well how much ECU fans had vested into moving up and deep down he knew it was not going to happen based on what he was hearing from other AD's and Presidents and from the road blocks he was getting from Providence. His greatest ally in the Big East was WVU and he knew from talking to them how things were going down and how WVU was desperately heading for the door and they were our only real advocate for the Big East. He knew minus WVU that ECU has exactly no chance of a Big East invite. He writes his letters because he keeps up with the fanbase, even the messageboard lunatics. Other fans might not like it or think it is a joke but he is a very solid AD IMO and I have followed more then a few at ECU.

+1 for you.

I'm a Marshall fan, but still love and respect your AD. I love how in touch he is with your fan base and letting them know what he is thinking.

He has switched his tone about conferences and such because things have switched. As an ECU fan I wouldn't want an AD who was still dwelling on the Big East (mind you not the same one 2001, little long 1991.) I'd want someone who is doing just what he is doing. Making the best out of a not so good situation. He has changed plans to fit the times and realistic possibilities for ECU.

Why do I love ECU's AD so much? Well I honestly think that outside of a Big 4 Conference invite, I think Marshall and ECU are linked together. If a new conference is formed I think ECU would push for our inclusion. So what's good for ECU is good for Marshall. Or so I hope/think. I read/listen to a lot of interviews from your AD and I love it.

(05-19-2012 10:59 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 10:48 AM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  Minges was not a dump and comprable to a lot of CUSA facilities. UCF had no other choice then to build something new because your old arena was a dump and not sufficient to play in CUSA.

Well...schools like Temple & UCF each built brand new basketball facilities recently (Memphis moved into a brand new NBA FedExForum)...while ECU did basically nothing with their 44 year old crib.

Even SMU is spending some $40 Million to renovate their 50 plus year old arena....while USF just did a complete renovation of their 32 year old building.

Doing NOTHING guarantees only one thing...hurts your advancement dreams.

Yes, not renovating our basketball stadium is the reason we are still in C-USA.

Never mind the fact that we just built a $24 million Olympic sports complex featuring a new track, new soccer stadium, and new softball stadium in 2011. Or that we just finished a $20 million expansion on our football stadium in 2010. Or that a $15 million basketball facility is scheduled to be built. I'm sure the Big East looked at ECU and TH and said "you guys are clearly lacking a dedication to your facilities".

(05-19-2012 12:59 PM)TheEastisPurple Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 10:59 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(05-19-2012 10:48 AM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  Minges was not a dump and comprable to a lot of CUSA facilities. UCF had no other choice then to build something new because your old arena was a dump and not sufficient to play in CUSA.

Well...schools like Temple & UCF each built brand new basketball facilities recently (Memphis moved into a brand new NBA FedExForum)...while ECU did basically nothing with their 44 year old crib.

Even SMU is spending some $40 Million to renovate their 50 plus year old arena....while USF just did a complete renovation of their 32 year old building.

Doing NOTHING guarantees only one thing...hurts your advancement dreams.

Yes, not renovating our basketball stadium is the reason we are still in C-USA.

Never mind the fact that we just built a $24 million Olympic sports complex featuring a new track, new soccer stadium, and new softball stadium in 2011. Or that we just finished a $20 million expansion on our football stadium in 2010. Or that a $15 million basketball facility is scheduled to be built. I'm sure the Big East looked at ECU and TH and said "you guys are clearly lacking a dedication to your facilities".

You left out the baseball stadium.

Why are you stupid a$$ UCF fans so ******* obsessed with our athletic director?

**** the Big East.....you're in the same boat we're in at this point. The ACC is almost right there with us.

Ok then, you're right, you guys are on the right path. I was trying to have a civil discussion that maybe TH has ulterior motives for these "rah rah" letters. That's all. Have a good day.

I love how the Florida University of Central Knights come on this thread, with NO mention of them and try and shit on everything. You don't know our history, both academic and athletic. You don't know Coach Holland. You know absolute jack shit.

So FUCK off, and get off our thread. This message was directed towards US only.

There are going to be a ton of forum bans if the defectors keep making snarky and snide comments all summer. You're in a watered down Big East, good for you. Wish we could have been there too. Now stop being so snobbish to those of us that remain.

(05-19-2012 01:17 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  Ok then, you're right, you guys are on the right path. I was trying to have a civil discussion that maybe TH has ulterior motives for these "rah rah" letters. That's all. Have a good day.

Civil discussion my ass. You all knew exactly what you were doing.

(05-19-2012 01:20 PM)PGPirate Wrote:  I love how the Florida University of Central Knights come on this thread, with NO mention of them and try and shit on everything. You don't know our history, both academic and athletic. You don't know Coach Holland. You know absolute jack shit.

So FUCK off, and get off our thread. This message was directed towards US only.

Wow, sorry you feel that way. Don't be angry with me for being honest. Seems like you need to get some anger out, PM me if you need to get it out bro. Oh, and if it's just for ECU fans, then it should be on the ECU board, just saying.

Hey, mods: can we at least get a "Moved: ..." on the main board?

Thanks for the move. Many of the comments from had no place on the main board.

(05-19-2012 01:49 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  Thanks for the move. Many of the comments from had no place on the main board.

no problem

Also forgot the Olympic sports team building.

I'm sorry UCf'ers, I just find it insulting as hell that some of you have the nads to tell us that Terry Holland has failed us in light of your own AD's sins. The man has factually done more to advance ECU athletics, especially in the area of facilities in the last 5 years than what happened combined in the previous 20. When we've had an 8,000+ seat basketball arena since '96 when UCF wasn't even a blip on the radar (you were where in '95?) and knightlite pulls that reason out of his arse as the reason we didn't move up is just him grasping at straws to try to give his error ridden opinion artificial legs.

When it gets right down to the core reason you got the BE invite it is simply a matter of location. Nothing more, nothing less. You know it, we know it, everybody knows it. So don't spin it any other way. You got what you wanted, we didn't. Oh well, life goes on. Take your prize and leave with class and grace. And believe it or not I wish you well and hope you are happy long term with your new conference. But don't piss on us on the way out and try to say it's rain.

The thing I just don't understand about some of you chest thumpers from Central Fredo is all the ballyhoo about "look at all the facilities we've built". I mean, I know you're proud of them and all but you're not alone.

When you don't have those facilities to begin with ya kind of HAVE TO build them. That's kind of like an expectation to run an athletic department, so how is it unique? And before you get all slobber happy about how it all happened at one time nobody said you had to do it all at once. That was a choice made by your school. If the financials worked for you to do so, well great. But in case you haven't noticed you aren't the only ones who have been building from scratch and upgrading facilities.

I really don't know what else Terry could have done to put us in better position than what he has done. For some to suggest he failed us is short-sighted at the least and downright delusional in the extreme.