Pretty good article.

Paints the Big 12 as the refuge for academically puny expansion candidates. As a league with top heavy athletic departments who don't perform well across the board.

Some money quotes:

The Big 12 hasn’t lost four of its best schools over the past two years because it’s a great place to be. Elite universities are fleeing the Big 12; why would FSU want to join it? If the Big 12 wasn’t good enough for Colorado, Nebraska, Texas A&M and Missouri – universities who lived in the Big 12 for years, competed in it for years, recruited in it for years, intimately understood the culture and political climate and are actually located in its footprint – then it can’t be good for Florida State.

************

NO UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT OR BOARD OF TRUSTEES WILL EVER LEAVE AN ASSOCIATION WITH SCHOOLS LIKE DUKE, UNC, WAKE FOREST, MIAMI, GEORGIA TECH, BOSTON COLLEGE AND VIRGINIA IN FAVOR OF ONE WITH TEXAS TECH, OKLAHOMA STATE, WEST VIRGINIA AND KANSAS STATE.

**************

Big 12 football is better than ACC football. The ACC as an overall athletic conference is today and always has been better than the Big 12. In the 2010-2011 Learfield Sports Directors’ Cup, a broad measurement of a universities’ overall athletic success for men’s and women’s sports, the ACC had five members in the top 30 (Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland and Florida State) while the Big 12 had only two (Oklahoma and Texas – Big 2 Little 8). Football stands as the most important of all college sports in any way you want to measure it, but if you’re going to compete in other sports – and FSU is – you should seek to compete at the highest level.

Monkey-eers

But, but, football.

He denied it, so it must be true. Then he denied it in all caps, which makes it doubly true. Isn't that right, true believers?

Of course Chad Scott is right. It is plainly obvious that he's right to most right-minded people and yet this Rasputin of rumors will not die because a certain segment of the college football population doesn't want it to die.

You would have to be incredibly limited intellectually to not see the wisdom of his well-founded rationale but I have no doubt that many will refuse to see it in favor of the X-Files scenario which makes no sense on any level to anyone older than eight years-old or who is butt-hurt that his or her teams was rejected by the ACC and consequently they want it to die a slow, horrible death.

Whatever.

Lost is no longer on TV so I susppose that this is as good a fantasy theater as any other. However just as when Lost was on the air, I wasn't frantically imploring the authorities to look for a downed flight from a mythical airline, nor do I take this terribly seriously. It's all in good fun.

It's just a little weird that a theory that has been so obviously decimated by so many knowledgeable people continues to cling to life like it is somehow plausible.

Oh well. It's summertime and what else are a bunch of CFB addicts going to talk about?

All of those comments are perfectly on point. There is absolutely no way that the Big XII could ever poach the ACC. Why do you think Missouri is now in the SEC? The answer, because the mighty SEC could not poach the ACC.

Just like 18 months ago when people were posting that the Big East was going to paoch Maryland from the ACC, this rumor of Clemson and FSU to the Big XII is delusional.

Another good point that is made in the article above is the point about people thinking about Clemson and FSU as "football teams" instead of the Universities that they are.

This is not like the Carolina Panthers wanting to switch from the NFC South to the NFC East because the NFC East is "better". This is not about football teams wanting to be in a better division. This is about a University voluntarily deciding to leave the Atlantic Coast Conference to join the Big XII Conference (which as the author astutely points out, was just raided last year and lost 4 of its 6 most prestigious Universities). It will simply never happen.

(05-09-2012 03:00 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Of course Chad Scott is right. It is plainly obvious that he's right to most right-minded people and yet this Rasputin of rumors will not die because a certain segment of the college football population doesn't want it to die.

You would have to be incredibly limited intellectually to not see the wisdom of his well-founded rationale but I have no doubt that many will refuse to see it in favor of the X-Files scenario which makes no sense on any level to anyone older than eight years-old or who is butt-hurt that his or her teams was rejected by the ACC and consequently they want it to die a slow, horrible death.

Whatever.

Lost is no longer on TV so I susppose that this is as good a fantasy theater as any other. However just as when Lost was on the air, I wasn't frantically imploring the authorities to look for a downed flight from a mythical airline, nor do I take this terribly seriously. It's all in good fun.

It's just a little weird that a theory that has been so obviously decimated by so many knowledgeable people continues to cling to life like it is somehow plausible.

Oh well. It's summertime and what else are a bunch of CFB addicts going to talk about?

Wait, are you talking about the ACC or those wanting the Big East to die?

On second thought the same group is looking for both conferences to die so I guess that is a moot point.

(05-09-2012 03:08 PM)TommyC2 Wrote:  There is absolutely no way that the Big XII could ever poach the ACC. Why do you think Missouri is now in the SEC? The answer, because the mighty SEC could not poach the ACC.

Let's not get carried away. The SEC did not try to poach the ACC:

1. The SEC has no interest in adding schools from states they already occupy (i.e., Florida St, Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson);

2. The SEC accepts applications, but it doesn't actively try to raid anybody. Ever.

(05-09-2012 03:15 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(05-09-2012 03:08 PM)TommyC2 Wrote:  There is absolutely no way that the Big XII could ever poach the ACC. Why do you think Missouri is now in the SEC? The answer, because the mighty SEC could not poach the ACC.

Let's not get carried away. The SEC did not try to poach the ACC:
1. The SEC has no interest in adding schools from states they already occupy (i.e., Florida St, Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson);

2. The SEC accepts applications, but it doesn't actively try to raid anybody. Ever.

They contacted VTech but that was AFTER A&M contacted the SEC. At that point SEC basically had to have #14.

(05-09-2012 01:59 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  Pretty good article.

Paints the Big 12 as the refuge for academically puny expansion candidates. As a league with top heavy athletic departments who don't perform well across the board.

Some money quotes:

The Big 12 hasn’t lost four of its best schools over the past two years because it’s a great place to be. Elite universities are fleeing the Big 12; why would FSU want to join it? If the Big 12 wasn’t good enough for Colorado, Nebraska, Texas A&M and Missouri – universities who lived in the Big 12 for years, competed in it for years, recruited in it for years, intimately understood the culture and political climate and are actually located in its footprint – then it can’t be good for Florida State.

************

NO UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT OR BOARD OF TRUSTEES WILL EVER LEAVE AN ASSOCIATION WITH SCHOOLS LIKE DUKE, UNC, WAKE FOREST, MIAMI, GEORGIA TECH, BOSTON COLLEGE AND VIRGINIA IN FAVOR OF ONE WITH TEXAS TECH, OKLAHOMA STATE, WEST VIRGINIA AND KANSAS STATE.

**************

Big 12 football is better than ACC football. The ACC as an overall athletic conference is today and always has been better than the Big 12. In the 2010-2011 Learfield Sports Directors’ Cup, a broad measurement of a universities’ overall athletic success for men’s and women’s sports, the ACC had five members in the top 30 (Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland and Florida State) while the Big 12 had only two (Oklahoma and Texas – Big 2 Little 8). Football stands as the most important of all college sports in any way you want to measure it, but if you’re going to compete in other sports – and FSU is – you should seek to compete at the highest level.

I'd say the 1st reply at the site is a pretty thorough rebuttal.

(05-09-2012 03:08 PM)BGKnight Wrote:  

(05-09-2012 03:00 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Of course Chad Scott is right. It is plainly obvious that he's right to most right-minded people and yet this Rasputin of rumors will not die because a certain segment of the college football population doesn't want it to die.

You would have to be incredibly limited intellectually to not see the wisdom of his well-founded rationale but I have no doubt that many will refuse to see it in favor of the X-Files scenario which makes no sense on any level to anyone older than eight years-old or who is butt-hurt that his or her teams was rejected by the ACC and consequently they want it to die a slow, horrible death.

Whatever.

Lost is no longer on TV so I susppose that this is as good a fantasy theater as any other. However just as when Lost was on the air, I wasn't frantically imploring the authorities to look for a downed flight from a mythical airline, nor do I take this terribly seriously. It's all in good fun.

It's just a little weird that a theory that has been so obviously decimated by so many knowledgeable people continues to cling to life like it is somehow plausible.

Oh well. It's summertime and what else are a bunch of CFB addicts going to talk about?

Wait, are you talking about the ACC or those wanting the Big East to die?

On second thought the same group is looking for both conferences to die so I guess that is a moot point.

Wow! Now that the smoke has started to clear, the landscape appears to be exactly what many of us predicted it to be.

There is NO $10M gap between the B12 and ACC deals. More like $3M. Not enough, IMO, to get any ACC school to bolt because of EXACTLY the reasons summed up by Chad Scott.

And please, to the proponents of these foolish rumors, spare us your "Tier 3" nonsnese. The fact is that the ACC schools often mentioned in these theories already have specific deals and any increment would be likely outweighed by all of the other factors which Scott has outlined so well.

It is fascinarting that most of these FSU and Clemson rumors do not have any any roots with either the FSU or Clemson communities. This is most telling, IMO.

To the posters that continue to spread these rumors. My advice: give it up. You look more and more foolish every day.

(05-09-2012 03:15 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(05-09-2012 03:08 PM)TommyC2 Wrote:  There is absolutely no way that the Big XII could ever poach the ACC. Why do you think Missouri is now in the SEC? The answer, because the mighty SEC could not poach the ACC.

Let's not get carried away. The SEC did not try to poach the ACC:

1. The SEC has no interest in adding schools from states they already occupy (i.e., Florida St, Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson);

2. The SEC accepts applications, but it doesn't actively try to raid anybody. Ever.

1. How about North Carolina, NC State, Virginia or Virginia Tech? No SEC teams in those states and I consider N. Carolina and Virginia to be every bit as much the Southeast as Missouri.

2. We can get into the semantics of raiding a conference vs "accepting applications" if you want, but the fact is after they took A&M, the SEC had 13 teams and that is not a workable number. They needed a 14th team. That 14th team came from the Big XII not the ACC

(05-09-2012 03:15 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(05-09-2012 03:08 PM)TommyC2 Wrote:  There is absolutely no way that the Big XII could ever poach the ACC. Why do you think Missouri is now in the SEC? The answer, because the mighty SEC could not poach the ACC.

Let's not get carried away. The SEC did not try to poach the ACC:

1. The SEC has no interest in adding schools from states they already occupy (i.e., Florida St, Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson);

They were talking about Virginia Tech

2. The SEC accepts applications, but it doesn't actively try to raid anybody. Ever.

(05-09-2012 03:00 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Of course Chad Scott is right. It is plainly obvious that he's right to most right-minded people and yet this Rasputin of rumors will not die because a certain segment of the college football population doesn't want it to die.

You would have to be incredibly limited intellectually to not see the wisdom of his well-founded rationale but I have no doubt that many will refuse to see it in favor of the X-Files scenario which makes no sense on any level to anyone older than eight years-old or who is butt-hurt that his or her teams was rejected by the ACC and consequently they want it to die a slow, horrible death.

Whatever.

Lost is no longer on TV so I susppose that this is as good a fantasy theater as any other. However just as when Lost was on the air, I wasn't frantically imploring the authorities to look for a downed flight from a mythical airline, nor do I take this terribly seriously. It's all in good fun.

It's just a little weird that a theory that has been so obviously decimated by so many knowledgeable people continues to cling to life like it is somehow plausible.

Oh well. It's summertime and what else are a bunch of CFB addicts going to talk about?

How can you be trusted when you post repeatedly that TCU only averaged 30k last year as a school that has no followers when the stadium was in the process of being redone and only held 30k max last year? You twist the truth to suit your own purposes..ie a liar!

(05-09-2012 03:08 PM)TommyC2 Wrote:  All of those comments are perfectly on point. There is absolutely no way that the Big XII could ever poach the ACC. Why do you think Missouri is now in the SEC? The answer, because the mighty SEC could not poach the ACC.

Just like 18 months ago when people were posting that the Big East was going to paoch Maryland from the ACC, this rumor of Clemson and FSU to the Big XII is delusional.

Another good point that is made in the article above is the point about people thinking about Clemson and FSU as "football teams" instead of the Universities that they are.

This is not like the Carolina Panthers wanting to switch from the NFC South to the NFC East because the NFC East is "better". This is not about football teams wanting to be in a better division. This is about a University voluntarily deciding to leave the Atlantic Coast Conference to join the Big XII Conference (which as the author astutely points out, was just raided last year and lost 4 of its 6 most prestigious Universities). It will simply never happen.

(05-09-2012 03:23 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  Wow! Now that the smoke has started to clear, the landscape appears to be exactly what many of us predicted it to be.

There is NO $10M gap between the B12 and ACC deals. More like $3M. Not enough, IMO, to get any ACC school to bolt because of EXACTLY the reasons summed up by Chad Scott.

And please, to the proponents of these foolish rumors, spare us your "Tier 3" nonsnese. The fact is that the ACC schools often mentioned in these theories already have specific deals and any increment would be likely outweighed by all of the other factors which Scott has outlined so well.

It is fascinarting that most of these FSU and Clemson rumors do not have any any roots with either the FSU or Clemson communities. This is most telling, IMO.

To the posters that continue to spread these rumors. My advice: give it up. You look more and more foolish every day.

You two should swing over to the ACC board. There's some discussion about the TV deal, etc., there too.

http://csnbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=351

Unless Chadd Scott is the AD or President of FSU or Clemson, his opinion is as valuable as mine and the rest of those on this forum, just hot air. Those two schools will have to decide if they can make more money in the Big 12 and thereby keep up with their instate rivals, and if their desire is to be in a football first conference instead of a basketball first conference.

The Big 12 is reserving money to help pay for the buyout of any school that moves to the Big 12. That could be FSU and Clemson, or it could be possibly Louisville, Cincinnati, or Rutgers. I think we will know by July.

P.S. I don't think the small difference in academics will make or break the deal.

It could be FSU, BYU, UofL anf Rutgers all at once.

More likely Louisville and Tulane.

(05-09-2012 04:07 PM)curtis0620 Wrote:  More likely Louisville and Tulane.

The Big 12 isn't adding Tulane over Cincinnati, BYU, Rutgers, etc.

FSU and Clemson were rumored to the BIG XII???? Wait what???? Come on.....

Why is this the first I am hearing about this????

Who else knew about this????

Wha???