It may well be that the firing doesn't represent the Big East falling apart.

One might assume that the firing means the hoop schools are looking to defect, the football schools are contemplating a split.

I just don't believe that is the case.

Here is what I think the situation most likely is.
1. Every football member would love the opportunity to move to one of the rich five leagues but theologically speaking, the election doctrine applies. You are either called to be the chosen or you are not. You can hustle and campaign but you aren't going anywhere unless you are one of the elect.
2. The basketball schools probably love the idea of breaking away, the problem is their vision of breaking away would include UConn and Rutgers and almost certainly Louisville, and Cincinnati and who knows, if they've warmed up, maybe Temple (but I doubt it).

Marinatto was fired because the football members are frustrated that they cannot attract members they deem to be peers and get the sort of bowl deals and TV deals their perceived peers have. They likely felt forced to take Memphis to offset some of the blows to basketball and improve the bowl situation.

He was fired because the basketball schools are unhappy they had to take two Texas schools and another new large public school in Florida and I doubt they are terribly thrilled about Memphis but supported them to mitigate the damage they think the others will cause and probably don't care much for the schools sharing the name under the football banner.

They had a crappy day at the office and while they might want to quit, there isn't a better job available so they went home and kicked the dog.

I think the firing signals that they recognize they have to stay together.

One reason for leaders to build consensus before acting is that even if people decide after the fact that they regret the decision, they know that it was fully discussed and bought into before it happened.

I wonder if Marinatto did enough to build consensus about the latest rounds of Big East expansion.

Also, the rejection of the TV deal indicates that the conference CEOs saw Marinatto as more of an implementer of their own ideas than a leader of the conference. Whether you think that TV deal was good or bad, the rejection was not a good sign for Marinatto. If the Big Ten staff was negotiating a new TV deal and Delany recommended that it be accepted, can you imagine the CEOs ignoring Delany's recommendation and throwing the network offer in the trash? Me neither. Part of that is respect for Delany and part of it is that the Big Ten staff would never let the negotiations get as far as a recommendation from Delany unless they were pretty sure the CEOs would ok it.

I think the move to get rid of Marinatto had little to do with his actual performance as much as a desire to have a fresh face in there prior to TV negotiations.

This kind of thing happens all of the time in the corporate world. In a leadership role either you prove to be indispensible or you are out quickly.

As long as you conclude that Marinatto getting fired (at this stage of events) as a good thing, this thread should smoothly.

(05-08-2012 05:21 PM)Big Dub Wrote:  As long as you conclude that Marinatto getting fired (at this stage of events) as a good thing, this thread should smoothly.

I haven't heard anyone other than Tranghese say that Marinatto did a terrific job. Whether it's a good thing depends -- was the problem Marinatto, or was the problem that the decisionmaking of the Big East CEOs is dysfunctional? If it's the latter, and everyone has a mind of their own and a mind to second-guess every decision that was made last week or last month, then, good luck, new commissioner, you'll need it.

(05-08-2012 04:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Marinatto was fired because the football members are frustrated that they cannot attract members they deem to be peers and get the sort of bowl deals and TV deals their perceived peers have. They likely felt forced to take Memphis to offset some of the blows to basketball and improve the bowl situation.

He was fired because the basketball schools are unhappy they had to take two Texas schools and another new large public school in Florida and I doubt they are terribly thrilled about Memphis but supported them to mitigate the damage they think the others will cause and probably don't care much for the schools sharing the name under the football banner.

They had a crappy day at the office and while they might want to quit, there isn't a better job available so they went home and kicked the dog.

I think the firing signals that they recognize they have to stay together.

Sort of the BE version of the XII firing Dan Dan Juice.

Maybe its a good cop bad cop thing? BE can bring in somone that isnt afraid to tell espn to f * off and stand up to the other big 5. maybe?

(05-08-2012 06:45 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Maybe its a good cop bad cop thing? BE can bring in somone that isnt afraid to tell espn to f * off and stand up to the other big 5. maybe?

They better think long and hard before they ask their commish to tell ESPN to f--- off. The NHL did that. Maybe the NHL loves being the king of NBCSN (formerly Versus, formerly OLN). But it has been repeatedly documented (here's one example: http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2012-arti...enter.html ) that ESPN has absolutely buried the NHL, giving it almost no coverage on SportsCenter, ever since the NHL turned its back on ESPN.

(05-08-2012 07:34 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-08-2012 06:45 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Maybe its a good cop bad cop thing? BE can bring in somone that isnt afraid to tell espn to f * off and stand up to the other big 5. maybe?

They better think long and hard before they ask their commish to tell ESPN to f--- off. The NHL did that. Maybe the NHL loves being the king of NBCSN (formerly Versus, formerly OLN). But it has been repeatedly documented (here's one example: http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2012-arti...enter.html ) that ESPN has absolutely buried the NHL, giving it almost no coverage on SportsCenter, ever since the NHL turned its back on ESPN.

Well the Big East gets almost no coverage on ESPN now. The NHL got more coverage then they get now from ESPN, but I'm not sure they really need ESPN coverage, since most of the best coverage for hockey comes on the local level. MSG Network's Hockey Night Live on Saturdays is better then anything ESPN could ever think of doing.

(05-08-2012 06:30 PM)justinslot Wrote:  

(05-08-2012 04:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Marinatto was fired because the football members are frustrated that they cannot attract members they deem to be peers and get the sort of bowl deals and TV deals their perceived peers have. They likely felt forced to take Memphis to offset some of the blows to basketball and improve the bowl situation.

He was fired because the basketball schools are unhappy they had to take two Texas schools and another new large public school in Florida and I doubt they are terribly thrilled about Memphis but supported them to mitigate the damage they think the others will cause and probably don't care much for the schools sharing the name under the football banner.

They had a crappy day at the office and while they might want to quit, there isn't a better job available so they went home and kicked the dog.

I think the firing signals that they recognize they have to stay together.

Sort of the BE version of the XII firing Dan Dan Juice.

It does seem strange that the BB schools are the ones instigating this as I always thought that Marinatto was in the BB schools' corner, he being part of the Providence mafia and all. Now, the interim guy looks to have more of a football background as are some of the names rumored to be candidates. This would indicate the interests of the FB side of the house will be better served over the BB side if you get a commish with primarily a FB background and no ties to the old BE.

(05-08-2012 07:34 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-08-2012 06:45 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Maybe its a good cop bad cop thing? BE can bring in somone that isnt afraid to tell espn to f * off and stand up to the other big 5. maybe?

They better think long and hard before they ask their commish to tell ESPN to f--- off. The NHL did that. Maybe the NHL loves being the king of NBCSN (formerly Versus, formerly OLN). But it has been repeatedly documented (here's one example: http://www.awfulannouncing.com/2012-arti...enter.html ) that ESPN has absolutely buried the NHL, giving it almost no coverage on SportsCenter, ever since the NHL turned its back on ESPN.

MWC did the same thing and fortunately for them they had the best non-AQ TV draw and teams cracking the top 10 that sort of left ESPN with no choice but give them coverage.

However, you have to suspect there was some real glee in Bristol when BYU called and said can we make a deal. Likewise probably no accident that when Pac-12 expansion seemed stalled that Utah broke through the stalemate.

One of my best friends is on the board of the Independence Bowl. When they were going into negotiations for 2010-13 he talked about the steps they had taken to move up a slot with the SEC. I told him they would be lucky to even keep the SEC. He argued money and I pointed out that ESPN is the SEC's largest TV partner in dollars, ESPN owned the bowl picking behind the Independence, ESPN was their TV partner and the one who would tell them what their TV rights were worth. Birmingham moved up the order and Independence fell out.

The problem in dealing with ESPN is that while other networks are narrowing the gap in households, they aren't cutting the gap in actual viewers. ESPN and ESPN2 remain channels people just default to. In most bars and restaurants you don't see CBSC, NBCS, or the local Fox or Comcast sports net on the TV unless a local favorite is on or some out of town fan asks nicely to get them to change the channel. Moving off ESPN means losing audience. You can still get the fan of the team or a fan of a team that has a stake in the outcome making the effort to change channels but the default viewer belongs to ESPN.

(05-08-2012 06:14 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-08-2012 05:21 PM)Big Dub Wrote:  As long as you conclude that Marinatto getting fired (at this stage of events) as a good thing, this thread should smoothly.

I haven't heard anyone other than Tranghese say that Marinatto did a terrific job. Whether it's a good thing depends -- was the problem Marinatto, or was the problem that the decisionmaking of the Big East CEOs is dysfunctional? If it's the latter, and everyone has a mind of their own and a mind to second-guess every decision that was made last week or last month, then, good luck, new commissioner, you'll need it.

Your earlier point about the rejected TV deal was spot on. The presidents at that point clearly signaled they were in charge and his job was to do their bidding.

Of course when you have 16 members and one more coming in as they did at that point, you have a real problem because you've got to have 9 to agree just do anything. Roy Kramer once told a friend that no matter what the issue was he went in to each meeting with 4 in favor, 4 against, and 4 that didn't give a sh!t, and that meant whichever side of the issue he was on, he normally had 8 votes (the four who didn't care would usually swing his way) and his job to try to turn 8-4 votes into 12-0 votes or nothing worse than 10-2 votes because he wouldn't last long with 7-5 and 8-4 votes.

Losing the TV vote meant the league was unprotected when the ACC called.

Maybe someone else could have gotten the members to bite on Temple and UCF earlier.

(05-08-2012 07:44 PM)General Mike Wrote:  Well the Big East gets almost no coverage on ESPN now. The NHL got more coverage then they get now from ESPN, but I'm not sure they really need ESPN coverage, since most of the best coverage for hockey comes on the local level. MSG Network's Hockey Night Live on Saturdays is better then anything ESPN could ever think of doing.

This. And besides the NHL's ratings are now meeting and surpassing ESPN's NHL ratings.

Marinnatto got fired because he was in over his head. The BE moved up their second hand Meatball guy a few years back and watched as the PAC-12 got a "big wig" and then the B12 fired their guy, replaced him temporarily with a big wig and now brought in a big wig.

Marinnato was not a big wig.

I dont think it was so much as expansion related as it was AQ related.

I do not think that Marinotto's firing means that the Big East is destined for a split in the near future. The split may in fact take a while. That said, I agree with the comment about the guy having a bad day at work, wanting to quit, then realizing that there is not a better job out there and going home to kick the dog.

The Basketball schools would love to split from the new football conglomeration. Make no mistake, Georgetown University does not want to be in the same conference as the University of Central Florida and Providence College does not want to be in the same conference as Southern Methodist University. I am just not sure that it is in the best financial interest of the BB schools to leave at this exact moment.

There is also the issue of keeping the brand name "Big East". If Georgetown, Villanova, St Johns et al were to proactively leave the conference, would they get to keep the branding and marketing of the Big East name? Who would get to keep the basketball tournament at MSG? If they were to form their own Catholic Basketball conference could they keep their NCAA auto bid (at least 5 teams have been together for more than 20 years)? Could they add Xavier, St Joe's and maybe Dayton and get a TV contract for bball that is half the value of what the current Big East conglomeration would get? Keep in mind it would only have to be half the size of the Big East TV deal because there would be about half the number of teams.

These are exactly the types of discussions going on at Villanova, Seton Hall and Georgetown right now. They want nothing to do with the national behemoth now calling itself the Big East. They just need some time to make sure all their bases are covered before deciding to officially split.

(05-09-2012 12:52 PM)TommyC2 Wrote:  I do not think that Marinotto's firing means that the Big East is destined for a split in the near future. The split may in fact take a while. That said, I agree with the comment about the guy having a bad day at work, wanting to quit, then realizing that there is not a better job out there and going home to kick the dog.

The Basketball schools would love to split from the new football conglomeration. Make no mistake, Georgetown University does not want to be in the same conference as the University of Central Florida and Providence College does not want to be in the same conference as Southern Methodist University. I am just not sure that it is in the best financial interest of the BB schools to leave at this exact moment.

There is also the issue of keeping the brand name "Big East". If Georgetown, Villanova, St Johns et al were to proactively leave the conference, would they get to keep the branding and marketing of the Big East name? Who would get to keep the basketball tournament at MSG? If they were to form their own Catholic Basketball conference could they keep their NCAA auto bid (at least 5 teams have been together for more than 20 years)? Could they add Xavier, St Joe's and maybe Dayton and get a TV contract for bball that is half the value of what the current Big East conglomeration would get? Keep in mind it would only have to be half the size of the Big East TV deal because there would be about half the number of teams.

These are exactly the types of discussions going on at Villanova, Seton Hall and Georgetown right now. They want nothing to do with the national behemoth now calling itself the Big East. They just need some time to make sure all their bases are covered before deciding to officially split.

The recent articles kept mentioning Notre Dame and how if a split happened Notre Dame would leave. I'm not sure why that would happen, because this new non football BE (maybe we call that the original BE?) wouldnt sponsor football so Notre Dame could be apart of it.

Was the BE expansion a way in which the league was taking care of the interests of the remaining 5 all sports members (UConn, Rutgers, L-ville, USF and Cincy), so that they would be OK after a split?

(05-09-2012 01:11 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  The recent articles kept mentioning Notre Dame and how if a split happened Notre Dame would leave. I'm not sure why that would happen,

Because Notre Dame will not allow it's basketball and Olympic sports to belong to a "mid-major" conference, and that is exactly what a new conference comprised of the Catholic non-football members would be.

(05-09-2012 01:56 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(05-09-2012 01:11 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  The recent articles kept mentioning Notre Dame and how if a split happened Notre Dame would leave. I'm not sure why that would happen,

Because Notre Dame will not allow it's basketball and Olympic sports to belong to a "mid-major" conference, and that is exactly what a new conference comprised of the Catholic non-football members would be.

I don't see that...a basketball conference with Nova, GTown, St Johns, Marquette and Xavier isnt a major conference for Notre Dame? You can have a 5 bid basketball league with just 10 schools every year? Plus major markets for Notre Dame to compete in. Plus it can be named the Big East.

Again, I'm not following that line of thinking. How would that not work well for Notre Dame other sports?

(05-09-2012 02:05 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  

(05-09-2012 01:56 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(05-09-2012 01:11 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  The recent articles kept mentioning Notre Dame and how if a split happened Notre Dame would leave. I'm not sure why that would happen,

Because Notre Dame will not allow it's basketball and Olympic sports to belong to a "mid-major" conference, and that is exactly what a new conference comprised of the Catholic non-football members would be.

I don't see that...a basketball conference with Nova, GTown, St Johns, Marquette and Xavier isnt a major conference for Notre Dame? You can have a 5 bid basketball league with just 10 schools every year? Plus major markets for Notre Dame to compete in. Plus it can be named the Big East.

Again, I'm not following that line of thinking. How would that not work well for Notre Dame other sports?

I completely agree. I think the following conference should suit Notre Dame just fine:

Notre Dame
Georgetown
St. John's
Seton Hall
Villanova
Providence
Xavier
Dayton
DePaul
Marquette

This is a perfectly strong basketball conference that would likely get at least 3-4 NCAA bids per year. We are also talking about 10 Catholic Universities that have institutional commonality and a large presence in major northeast and midwest markets. I also know that Notre Dame has just found a place for their relatively new but quite successful hockey team in Hockey East. I think these proposed conference affiliations are a perfectly reasonable price to pay for football independence.

(05-09-2012 01:56 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(05-09-2012 01:11 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  The recent articles kept mentioning Notre Dame and how if a split happened Notre Dame would leave. I'm not sure why that would happen,

Because Notre Dame will not allow it's basketball and Olympic sports to belong to a "mid-major" conference, and that is exactly what a new conference comprised of the Catholic non-football members would be.

Bullcrap. Add the best Private school programs (Xavier, St Louis, Richmond, etc) from A10 / MVC to a "non-FB Big East" and they'd be WAY ahead of the rest of the so-called "mid majors". That conference would give almost any all-sports conference a run for it's money every season.