Kansas City Star blog on BIG 12 expansion:

excerpt:

On a day when the Big East fired Commissioner John Marinatto and musical chairs continues in several conferences, expansion rumors continue to involve the Big 12.

But this time, they’re about prospective schools, not those looking to leave.

Louisville is the most often mentioned expansion target, but would the league add one to stand at 11? Other Big East schools like Cincinnati, Rutgers and Connecticut have been associated with other conferences, but although it’s unwise to assume a lid on expansionism the SEC, Big Ten, ACC and Pac-12 have given no indication of further growth.

The Big 12 is in something of a holding pattern. The new commissioner, Bob Bowlsby, was introduced Friday and won’t take over until June 15. It’s reasonable to believe the Big 12 will idle on this issue while he warms the seat.

While that happens, the rumors will continue to churn. The latest involves Florida State and Clemson in outside-the-box speculation. The reasoning: The Seminoles and Tigers are football-first schools that would be happier in a conference with Texas and Oklahoma than one that just added Pittsburgh and Syracuse.

Bowlsby wasn’t specific about Big 12 expansion possibilities but talked of conferences liked by an “electronic footprint,” as opposed to geographical.
Meaning, expansion can come from anywhere.

The big target would be Notre Dame in an all-in – football included – scenario. The Irish have repeated their desire for football independence but among the issues to be settled with college football headed toward a new postseason is how Notre Dame and Brigham Young, another rumored Big 12 target, would qualify for a playoff.

http://campuscorner.kansascity.com/node/2633

(05-07-2012 08:08 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  Kansas City Star blog on BIG 12 expansion:

excerpt:

On a day when the Big East fired Commissioner John Marinatto and musical chairs continues in several conferences, expansion rumors continue to involve the Big 12.

But this time, they’re about prospective schools, not those looking to leave.

Louisville is the most often mentioned expansion target, but would the league add one to stand at 11? Other Big East schools like Cincinnati, Rutgers and Connecticut have been associated with other conferences, but although it’s unwise to assume a lid on expansionism the SEC, Big Ten, ACC and Pac-12 have given no indication of further growth.

The Big 12 is in something of a holding pattern. The new commissioner, Bob Bowlsby, was introduced Friday and won’t take over until June 15. It’s reasonable to believe the Big 12 will idle on this issue while he warms the seat.

While that happens, the rumors will continue to churn. The latest involves Florida State and Clemson in outside-the-box speculation. The reasoning: The Seminoles and Tigers are football-first schools that would be happier in a conference with Texas and Oklahoma than one that just added Pittsburgh and Syracuse.

Bowlsby wasn’t specific about Big 12 expansion possibilities but talked of conferences liked by an “electronic footprint,” as opposed to geographical.
Meaning, expansion can come from anywhere.

The big target would be Notre Dame in an all-in – football included – scenario. The Irish have repeated their desire for football independence but among the issues to be settled with college football headed toward a new postseason is how Notre Dame and Brigham Young, another rumored Big 12 target, would qualify for a playoff.

http://campuscorner.kansascity.com/node/2633

Buck:

You unintentionally left this part out:


"It might be easier to accomplish with a conference championship.

Notre Dame would be the biggest prize, the addition that would bring the greatest value to any conference.

But even without football, the Big 12 could be Notre Dame’s best spot to park its other sports, including basketball. The Big 12 might be able to offer a football scheduling alignment and access to Big 12 bowl games."

Read more here: http://campuscorner.kansascity.com/node/...rylink=cpy

Read more here: http://campuscorner.kansascity.com/node/...rylink=cpy



So, do you agree that the blogger merely states that access for ND to the playoffs would merely be "easier" (not impossible or unlikely) as a conference member?

Do you agree that ND is the biggest and greatest prize out there, that it would add more value to a conference than anyone else?

What about the last bolded quote?

Are you agreeable to a hybrid conference where ND only plays its other sports in the Big 12 and has access to the Big 12 bowl games.

In other words, would you be happy with ND having a similar deal with the Big 12 that it currently has with the Big East?

My take:

ND will do one of three things in the future:

1) Status quo: Independent in football and a Big East member in other sports.

2) Independent in football and an ACC member in other sports (it is irrelevant now that the ACC once turned down this deal, you lead the charge that the current ACC is doomed).

3) Independent in football and a Big 12 member in other sports.


One big problem with this is that the Big 12 does not offer many of the sports that ND sponsors. It would be an inadequate answer to the question of where to house the other sports.

I think that the three scenarios outlined above are most likely in the order listed.

I still do not see what benefit the Big 12 membership would be to ND over staying where they are or cutting a similar deal with a weakened ACC (if the doomsday scenario of FSU and Clemson leaving takes place, which I am not convinced).

I agree, Terry. In a weakened ACC, Notre Dame would come in with a lot of clout. Much more than they'd ever have with Texas in the Big XII...

Selfishly, (and as a fan of ACC Lacrosse) I do hope ND and the ACC get together for Olympic sports so I can watch ND play SU, UVA, Duke, UMD & UNC every spring!

It is doubtful that Notre Dame will ever again see a deal similar to what they have in the Big East.

Other sports besides football aren't profitable enough that a league will make a substantial amount of money off of such a deal--the low BE media contracts is more than evidence of this. Even with the biggest and best basketball league they still didn't make as much as other leagues in that sport.

Without football games, ND just isn't getting such a deal from anyone. The BIG and ACC already turned that down. The PAC has already mandated no one can do a (ND) deal where in a home-home series the PAC team doesn't get a home game but a neutral game site.

If another league allows ND in for sports other than football, it will only be with a mandate of a certain # of games in football that the league can also profit from. There aren't going to be bowl deals where ND can take a league members bowls but pay nothing to the league for doing so.

If the powers that be decide on the champions only format without some special clause then ND will have only a few choices:

1) Decide that remaining independent is more important than playing for the MNC and receiving playoff money

2) Join a conference for all sports

3) Possibly-join a power conference for sports except football --with the caveat of a minimum non negotiable number of league games (probably more than three each season-home/home round robin) with the money shared equally between the television partners of each side, and the demand that if ND ever joins a conference it will have to be the one they are joining "partially". If bowls are "taken" by ND (if that is even offered) ND will pay the league the bowl money and it will be distributed as leagues distribute to all members-not just to ND. There are probably many other conditions as well--no power conference is going for a BE deal certainly.

Less talk, more action. I'm ready for the B12 to get this done already.

(05-08-2012 08:52 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Less talk, more action. I'm ready for the B12 to get this done already.

You'll have to wait until later in the summer after the new BIG 12 commissioner takes office and the BCS deal is finalized probably.

(05-08-2012 08:54 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(05-08-2012 08:52 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Less talk, more action. I'm ready for the B12 to get this done already.

You'll have to wait until later in the summer after the new BIG 12 commissioner takes office and the BCS deal is finalized probably.

Yes, and here come Louisville and Tulane.

curtis, if you mention Tulane again, I'm going to beat you severely amongst the head and shoulders with a rubber hose...

(05-08-2012 09:16 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  curtis, if you mention Tulane again, I'm going to beat you severely amongst the head and shoulders with a rubber hose...

Big 12 would like the New Orleans Market, plus they are AAU Member.

I could see ND join the acc without football if the acc took the hit of losing fsu + clemson to the big 12. In that case, i think the acc immediately invites uconn, rutgers for full membership with ND + 1-3 of nova, st john's and gtown coming in for 14/16-18 hybrid. I don't see acc going hybrid unless it loses members though...maybe this is what espn wants. Yet, the risk is the big 10 and sec would go in fro the acc killshot. If not, espn puts fsu and clemson in the big 12 for football, than use the acc to create a good hybrid + get some ND football games in a schedule agreement with acc school's. I could also see ND go to the big 12 without football. Maybe the big 12 invites cincy, lville and byu for full membership along with nd no football to be paired with sd state football only? Of just Lville with the byu/ nd combo. Of course, i could see ND stay in the big east. Worst case, the big east loses cincy, lville, uconn and rutgers. Big east could bring in st louis and xaiver which would put it at 10 catholic hoops + 6 football school's. Break off into 2 eight team divisions and add 3-6 football only school's for a nice setup. Bottom line ND does seem secure in its goal of football indy. My own take is i think ND would be better off in a football conference, probably a 16 team acc but that doesn't seem to be what they want.

(05-08-2012 09:20 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  

(05-08-2012 09:16 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  curtis, if you mention Tulane again, I'm going to beat you severely amongst the head and shoulders with a rubber hose...

Big 12 would like the New Orleans Market, plus they are AAU Member.

Anyone who thinks Tulane has any kind of market pull is ignoring reality. Get real. Tulane is a waste of time and effort...

If Tulane wanted to be a part of the big picture, they should have stayed in the SEC. Since they didn't, who cares?

Buck:

You are already wrong. The "conference champ only" scenario is dead.

Everyone admits that.....but you.

With that, ND's football independence is secured.

There is no need for ND to make that first decision you list.

Second, you didn't address what a weakened ACC might do.

Third, you didn't address the option of ND staying right where it is in the BE.

Fourth, you brought up that blog that mentions a hybrid Big 12 with ND as a partial member, I didn't.

Oh, that is right. You left out that part of the blog (for some unknown reason) and only included the portion of the blog that hinted at full ND membership.

Fifth, such a stipulation of "you can only join our conference if we let you in as a partial member" is likely not legally enforceable.

Sixth, you have no idea what kind of a deal ND may cut with Deloss and friends on bowl bids, if it came to that.

(05-08-2012 10:02 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Fifth, such a stipulation of "you can only join our conference if we let you in as a partial member" is likely not legally enforceable.

yes it is; conferences are a voluntary association and can make any rules they want, as long as they're not against the law, and if a school like Notre Dame didn't want to accept the rules as it, they don't have to join

I'll repeat again that I don't see the Big 12 adding any ACC schools. However, at least I see that as a smidgen of a possibility due to TV money. My eyes only rollover about halfway when I see these rumors.

However, when you start talking about Notre Dame joining the Big 12 for football, my eyes roll COMPLETELY over. Why people feel the need to throw that out there is beyond me outside of getting people in a tizzy. Every rational explanation for ND to join every single conference has been made and then promptly rejected by the Domers. Now, ND for just non-football sports to the Big 12? Certainly possible, but still very unlikely.

I think Tulane will make an excellent addition to the ACC. Academics, new market, fits in well with Duke and Wake Forest. I'm surprised they haven't been invited.

(05-08-2012 09:59 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(05-08-2012 09:20 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  

(05-08-2012 09:16 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  curtis, if you mention Tulane again, I'm going to beat you severely amongst the head and shoulders with a rubber hose...

Big 12 would like the New Orleans Market, plus they are AAU Member.

Anyone who thinks Tulane has any kind of market pull is ignoring reality. Get real. Tulane is a waste of time and effort...

If Tulane wanted to be a part of the big picture, they should have stayed in the SEC. Since they didn't, who cares?

Completely agree that there is no way that Tulane is getting in the Big 12.

But... the idea that they don't care about sports because they left the SEC is just wrong for several reasons:

1) They left because of the SEC's rules on oversigning. Even these days, oversigning is a black mark on college athletics. But it was much worse back then, and the SEC was the worst practitioner of the practice, typically signing 45 man classes that would be whittled down over their first summer.

2) They left at the same time, and for the same reason, as Georgia Tech. Are you going to claim that Georgia Tech doesn't care about sports either?

3) Soon after leaving the SEC, they founded the Metro Conference with Georgia Tech, Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis, and St. Louis. They were later joined by Florida State, Southern Miss, South Carolina, and Virginia Tech. This was a major conference that only went under when football on TV became king in college sports.

Basically, Tulane put all their eggs in a basket that broke, and were left behind. This is much different than saying that they don't care about sports.

CB, it boils down to the same thing...

Since there are many of each school's alumni living in the area, the KC Star covers KU, KSU, and MU. Naturally, this means that they're accused of bias on an almost daily basis. Run a story on KU, and the KSU and MU fans complain. Run a story on MU, and the KU and KSU fans complain, etc, etc. They just can't win - and now it's going to be magnified further as they'll have to cover two different conferences in more depth. At least when all 3 schools were in the Big 12, there was a more limited universe of general interest stories to run. Now they'll have to have features on the likes of Alabama/LSU as well as Oklahoma/Texas.

As for this blog post, I think it's nothing more than putting some content out there to keep KU and KSU readers engaged with the Star. It certainly doesn't break any news, and just rehashes rumors that have been covered much more elsewhere. At least, it's old news to all of the readers of this site.

Tulane would be great for any conference. A nice destination....