(05-04-2012 02:02 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 01:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 01:46 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 01:38 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Whether this is true or not, I'm not worried about the outcomes. If Pitt ends up going the way of Hofstra, Army, Navy, Columbia, etc as colleges that once had proud FB programs, then so be it. However, I think the more likely take aways from these rumors are that forces are at work to try to get ESPN to pay the ACC a more competitive rate for their TV deal relative to the most recent deals consummated by the other power conferences. Sure, people think ESPN is working behind the scenes to move ACC schools to the Big12; However, I am not buying it. It makes no sense for a network to actively weaken a major college conference located along the east cost - including population centers in the northeast, mid-atlantic and southeast - in favor of pushing a conference that is located in the lesser part of the mid-west and Texas. To add to that, it makes no sense for ESPN to not protect the ACC as much as possible considering the network has virtually all of the rights to ACC content while the Big12 will only give ESPN a fraction of the rights. I highly doubt that ESPN is interested in cannibalizing their own assets.

The problem that ESPN has got is the fact that the SEC is also up for renegotiation. If they give the ACC a huge deal out of charity- that's just going to drive the SEC's deal thru the roof. ESPN is between the proverbial rock and hard place.

Or...you give the SEC back some of their tier 2, 3 or whatever rights to allow them to extract more value from their games. There is more than one way out of this "mess" if ESPN wants to pursue it. There are viewers watching the ACC. The only reason why the ACC has a lower TV deal now is due to timing. If the ACC was up for renegotiation right now because their TV deal is up, the numbers would be different.

One of my arguments for ESPN having incentive to give the ACC a good deal at the end of the day is simple - geography. As the networks divide up the college athletics landscape, ESPN is in the best boat IMO simply because the SEC and ACC encompass the most lucrative parts of the country. Northeast, Mid-Atlantic and Southeast are the most valuable parts of the country for TV viewers. All locations are on EST plus the schools in these 2 conferences either have top notch athletics or great academics.

Totally agree with you on the timing. ACC got totally screwed with the timing.

I'm not sure how much ESPN would want to lose some of the current SEC progrmming that they have. It's highly rated.

If ACC got broken up- ESPN would still have rights to everything on the Atlantic Coast. That's no different than what they have. The big change though is the bad football teams would be a lot less visible. and there are a lot of bad football teams.

I still fail to see how ESPN benefits by letting 2 ACC football power schools run to the Big12 without putting up a serious fight (bumping up the ACC contract significantly). Logic dictates you want to lock up as much of the east as possible - especially considering ESPN currently has the monopoly on the east right now. As many stated before in other threads - performance counts but only to a certain extent. Viewers eyeballs have to be taken into account too. It doesn't make much sense to me to see the networks try to expand the Big12 to the point that it is poaching east coast schools. The Big12 suffers the "accident of geography" issue to. Aside from Texas, Big12 country does not have those big population centers to wow networks.

These are just my opinions, and this can all go down exactly as the rumors say. If it does, I'm content with my school. In the end, my life is impacted to a greater degree by how much it improves on the academic front much more so than on the athletic front.

(05-04-2012 02:23 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:02 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 01:56 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 01:46 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 01:38 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Whether this is true or not, I'm not worried about the outcomes. If Pitt ends up going the way of Hofstra, Army, Navy, Columbia, etc as colleges that once had proud FB programs, then so be it. However, I think the more likely take aways from these rumors are that forces are at work to try to get ESPN to pay the ACC a more competitive rate for their TV deal relative to the most recent deals consummated by the other power conferences. Sure, people think ESPN is working behind the scenes to move ACC schools to the Big12; However, I am not buying it. It makes no sense for a network to actively weaken a major college conference located along the east cost - including population centers in the northeast, mid-atlantic and southeast - in favor of pushing a conference that is located in the lesser part of the mid-west and Texas. To add to that, it makes no sense for ESPN to not protect the ACC as much as possible considering the network has virtually all of the rights to ACC content while the Big12 will only give ESPN a fraction of the rights. I highly doubt that ESPN is interested in cannibalizing their own assets.

The problem that ESPN has got is the fact that the SEC is also up for renegotiation. If they give the ACC a huge deal out of charity- that's just going to drive the SEC's deal thru the roof. ESPN is between the proverbial rock and hard place.

Or...you give the SEC back some of their tier 2, 3 or whatever rights to allow them to extract more value from their games. There is more than one way out of this "mess" if ESPN wants to pursue it. There are viewers watching the ACC. The only reason why the ACC has a lower TV deal now is due to timing. If the ACC was up for renegotiation right now because their TV deal is up, the numbers would be different.

One of my arguments for ESPN having incentive to give the ACC a good deal at the end of the day is simple - geography. As the networks divide up the college athletics landscape, ESPN is in the best boat IMO simply because the SEC and ACC encompass the most lucrative parts of the country. Northeast, Mid-Atlantic and Southeast are the most valuable parts of the country for TV viewers. All locations are on EST plus the schools in these 2 conferences either have top notch athletics or great academics.

Totally agree with you on the timing. ACC got totally screwed with the timing.

I'm not sure how much ESPN would want to lose some of the current SEC progrmming that they have. It's highly rated.

If ACC got broken up- ESPN would still have rights to everything on the Atlantic Coast. That's no different than what they have. The big change though is the bad football teams would be a lot less visible. and there are a lot of bad football teams.

I still fail to see how ESPN benefits by letting 2 ACC football power schools run to the Big12 without putting up a serious fight (bumping up the ACC contract significantly). Logic dictates you want to lock up as much of the east as possible - especially considering ESPN currently has the monopoly on the east right now. As many stated before in other threads - performance counts but only to a certain extent. Viewers eyeballs have to be taken into account too. It doesn't make much sense to me to see the networks try to expand the Big12 to the point that it is poaching east coast schools. The Big12 suffers the "accident of geography" issue to. Aside from Texas, Big12 country does not have those big population centers to wow networks.

These are just my opinions, and this can all go down exactly as the rumors say. If it does, I'm content with my school. In the end, my life is impacted to a greater degree by how much it improves on the academic front much more so than on the athletic front.

Because at some point- It gets to a point where it becomes unwise to spend as much on a conference that just isn't that good. The ACC just isn't WORTH the amount that it would take to prevent a school like FSU or Clemson from leaving. To get them to not leave- it probably would take the ACC going up to like 22 or 23 million per year. This from a conference getting 13 right now. I'm sorry- but with the sorry state that ACC football is in- ACC isn't worth 22-23 million per school per year. I mean- ACC football title game didn't even draw a 2 this year- for the 3rd straight year.

(05-04-2012 12:34 PM)Tallgrass Wrote:  If the B12 wanted to go to 16, then this:

B12/WEST: UT/Baylor, TT/TCU, OU/OSU, KU/KSU
B12/EAST: ISU/WVA, PITT/MD, -MD/VA TECH, CLEMSON/FSU

You have MD twice.......Add Georgia Tech instead of two MD's.

(05-04-2012 02:30 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 12:34 PM)Tallgrass Wrote:  If the B12 wanted to go to 16, then this:

B12/WEST: UT/Baylor, TT/TCU, OU/OSU, KU/KSU
B12/EAST: ISU/WVA, PITT/MD, -MD/VA TECH, CLEMSON/FSU

You have MD twice.......Add Georgia Tech instead of two MD's.

either that or Virginia.

miko, the entire college football world is not out for ESPiN's benefit either. Granted, ESPiN has benefitted quite a bit from college football. But it isn't their's to do with as they will. If it ever got to that point, I'm pretty sure the federal government might want to step in and ask questions...

(05-04-2012 02:31 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  miko, the entire college football world is not out for ESPiN's benefit either. Granted, ESPiN has benefitted quite a bit from college football. But it isn't their's to do with as they will. If it ever got to that point, I'm pretty sure the federal government might want to step in and ask questions...

Yeah. Also as I've said- Fox has a vested interest in the Big 12- them getting FSU and Clemson would be huge.

(05-04-2012 02:31 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  miko, the entire college football world is not out for ESPiN's benefit either. Granted, ESPiN has benefitted quite a bit from college football. But it isn't their's to do with as they will. If it ever got to that point, I'm pretty sure the federal government might want to step in and ask questions...

Honestly, this is what the free markets are all about. The only reason for the Feds to step in is for questioning the nonprofit status. Other than that, I'd rather them stay out. Even if Pitt ends up getting screwed over these next 6-12 months.

(05-04-2012 02:33 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:31 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  miko, the entire college football world is not out for ESPiN's benefit either. Granted, ESPiN has benefitted quite a bit from college football. But it isn't their's to do with as they will. If it ever got to that point, I'm pretty sure the federal government might want to step in and ask questions...

Honestly, this is what the free markets are all about. The only reason for the Feds to step in is for questioning the nonprofit status. Other than that, I'd rather them stay out. Even if Pitt ends up getting screwed over these next 6-12 months.

Pitt's gonna be fine. Heck more movement means Rutgers, UConn and Temple might end up being fine after all.

(05-04-2012 02:34 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:33 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:31 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  miko, the entire college football world is not out for ESPiN's benefit either. Granted, ESPiN has benefitted quite a bit from college football. But it isn't their's to do with as they will. If it ever got to that point, I'm pretty sure the federal government might want to step in and ask questions...

Honestly, this is what the free markets are all about. The only reason for the Feds to step in is for questioning the nonprofit status. Other than that, I'd rather them stay out. Even if Pitt ends up getting screwed over these next 6-12 months.

Pitt's gonna be fine. Heck more movement means Rutgers, UConn and Temple might end up being fine after all.

it depends. If there's too much movement- the ACC becomes a total shell of itself- but still locked into a tv deal for 15 years with ESPN.

(05-04-2012 12:03 PM)No Bull Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 12:03 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  Would the ACC and Big 12 kill off the Big East after this?

yes.

no

The only BE teams that the ACC would take are UConn and Rutgers.

There are no teams in the BE that would add any value to the Big 12-sorry Louisville fans-except maybe Rutgers

I could see the Big 12, the SEC, and the Big 10 picking apart the ACC and maybe the BE taking whatever schools are left. The only team I could see not going anywhere would be Wake Forest. The Big 12 could take them and the Baylor/Wake Forest game could be the Baptist Bowl.

(05-04-2012 02:34 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:33 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:31 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  miko, the entire college football world is not out for ESPiN's benefit either. Granted, ESPiN has benefitted quite a bit from college football. But it isn't their's to do with as they will. If it ever got to that point, I'm pretty sure the federal government might want to step in and ask questions...

Honestly, this is what the free markets are all about. The only reason for the Feds to step in is for questioning the nonprofit status. Other than that, I'd rather them stay out. Even if Pitt ends up getting screwed over these next 6-12 months.

Pitt's gonna be fine. Heck more movement means Rutgers, UConn and Temple might end up being fine after all.

Definitely Rugters and UConn, because the ACC might turn to those 2 programs as replacements for FSU and Clemson.

The crazy part is who would the ACC turn to if and when the SEC tries to lure NCSU and VT away.

(05-04-2012 02:31 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:30 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 12:34 PM)Tallgrass Wrote:  If the B12 wanted to go to 16, then this:

B12/WEST: UT/Baylor, TT/TCU, OU/OSU, KU/KSU
B12/EAST: ISU/WVA, PITT/MD, -MD/VA TECH, CLEMSON/FSU

You have MD twice.......Add Georgia Tech instead of two MD's.

either that or Virginia.

Why would MD or VA want to go to B12? They'd throw themselves at the B10 first.

(05-04-2012 02:38 PM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 12:03 PM)No Bull Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 12:03 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  Would the ACC and Big 12 kill off the Big East after this?

yes.

no

The only BE teams that the ACC would take are UConn and Rutgers.

There are no teams in the BE that would add any value to the Big 12-sorry Louisville fans-except maybe Rutgers

I could see the Big 12, the SEC, and the Big 10 picking apart the ACC and maybe the BE taking whatever schools are left. The only team I could see not going anywhere would be Wake Forest. The Big 12 could take them and the Baylor/Wake Forest game could be the Baptist Bowl.

I'm going to end up defending Louisville here. Are you nuts? Louisville doesn't add value? They're one of the top all-around athletic programs in the country. They'd definitely add value to the Big 12.

(05-04-2012 12:56 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Lets just say The Hammers about to Drop! gonna get real Squirrley soon.

it's been squirrely for a while now

(05-04-2012 02:39 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:34 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:33 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:31 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  miko, the entire college football world is not out for ESPiN's benefit either. Granted, ESPiN has benefitted quite a bit from college football. But it isn't their's to do with as they will. If it ever got to that point, I'm pretty sure the federal government might want to step in and ask questions...

Honestly, this is what the free markets are all about. The only reason for the Feds to step in is for questioning the nonprofit status. Other than that, I'd rather them stay out. Even if Pitt ends up getting screwed over these next 6-12 months.

Pitt's gonna be fine. Heck more movement means Rutgers, UConn and Temple might end up being fine after all.

Definitely Rugters and UConn, because the ACC might turn to those 2 programs as replacements for FSU and Clemson.

The crazy part is who would the ACC turn to if and when the SEC tries to lure NCSU and VT away.

I'd suspect the ACC would hold at 12 for a while instead of having 1/3 of the conference be brand new.

(05-04-2012 02:39 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  The crazy part is who would the ACC turn to if and when the SEC tries to lure NCSU and VT away.

USF and Louisville.

(05-04-2012 02:39 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:34 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:33 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:31 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  miko, the entire college football world is not out for ESPiN's benefit either. Granted, ESPiN has benefitted quite a bit from college football. But it isn't their's to do with as they will. If it ever got to that point, I'm pretty sure the federal government might want to step in and ask questions...

Honestly, this is what the free markets are all about. The only reason for the Feds to step in is for questioning the nonprofit status. Other than that, I'd rather them stay out. Even if Pitt ends up getting screwed over these next 6-12 months.

Pitt's gonna be fine. Heck more movement means Rutgers, UConn and Temple might end up being fine after all.

Definitely Rugters and UConn, because the ACC might turn to those 2 programs as replacements for FSU and Clemson.

The crazy part is who would the ACC turn to if and when the SEC tries to lure NCSU and VT away.

The issue isn't that- but what happens if the SEC is sucessful with NCSU and VT. That's when Big Ten gets real active.

(05-04-2012 02:40 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:39 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:34 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:33 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 02:31 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  miko, the entire college football world is not out for ESPiN's benefit either. Granted, ESPiN has benefitted quite a bit from college football. But it isn't their's to do with as they will. If it ever got to that point, I'm pretty sure the federal government might want to step in and ask questions...

Honestly, this is what the free markets are all about. The only reason for the Feds to step in is for questioning the nonprofit status. Other than that, I'd rather them stay out. Even if Pitt ends up getting screwed over these next 6-12 months.

Pitt's gonna be fine. Heck more movement means Rutgers, UConn and Temple might end up being fine after all.

Definitely Rugters and UConn, because the ACC might turn to those 2 programs as replacements for FSU and Clemson.

The crazy part is who would the ACC turn to if and when the SEC tries to lure NCSU and VT away.

I'd suspect the ACC would hold at 12 for a while instead of having 1/3 of the conference be brand new.

Was it 1/4 or 1/3 of the conference that was new when BC, Miami and VT arrived? I think it was 1/4, was that right?

I think the odds of this happening still are small, but if Florida State and Clemson did go, I doubt it would be only them. They'd like the idea of a bigger eastern division and with the ACC hurt already, you could probably convince Miami and Georgia Tech to go as well. If not one of them, then maybe Pitt.

Here is the thing about the Big 10. Why would they add? JUST TO GET BIGGER you say?

Because we can see some logic behind some of these moves....

Clemson/FSU to Big 12.....as crazy as it seems...maybe due to money. It is a no brainer from the B12's standpoint.

VT/NC State to SEC.....I could see this happening only if the SEC really wants to get into those markets....but it still makes sense.

Do you really see any other logical moves that would be in the conference interests to expand? That would give them significantly MORE money? Maybe GT or Miami to the B12. I don't see anybody splitting up more money different ways to get Maryland. Why would the Big 10 take SU and Pitt now when they have had the opportunity to do so for decades?