The old BB schools will make more with the new FB schools than without, the same is true for the FB schools. This is all about $$$$ and there will be more together than apart.

Without an auto bid to a BCS bowl (and frankly - it'll be a very rare year that the next BigEast FB line-up will get an invite for any of the 4 BCS slots, IMO), the money from BigEast FB going forward will be tiny compared to the money they'll be getting for BB. Yes, the dual-persona of the "conference" is weird - with 7 non-FB programs, a national FB program that refuses to play FB under their banner, 2 FB-only additions, a host of conference members that are neither "big" nor "east", and a revolving door of FB playing members.

If they were going to bag the dual-identity of the conference, it should have been when they were down to 5/6 FB-playing schools and it was quite obvious that the BCS was about to dump the BigEast's AQ status (by eliminating AQ status altogether). It's a Big4 BCS now - and the BigEast and ACC aren't in it.

If the split did occur though - I'm not sure what one would call the FB side anyway "C-USA" is already taken.

(05-04-2012 07:46 AM)bronconick Wrote:  

(05-03-2012 09:17 PM)TampaKnight Wrote:  "Butler isn’t Syracuse or Pittsburgh or Missouri, but the Bulldogs have proven they can play with the big boys..."

HAHAHA. Butler went to two consecutive NCAA Tournament Finals appearances in the last five years. Syracuse? Pitt? Mizzou? Who are they?

That's a weird group of teams to list together. Syracuse has a title in the last decade. Pitt last went to a Final Four in 1941, and Mizzou has never been to one.

It is about National Brand Value not Final Fours...Pitt and Mizzou are still bigger brand names than Butler in BB.

I agree with compact regional conferences as much as anyone...(gas prices ain't goin down!)

But I'm ok with Boise and SDSU for the next few years as long as its football only.

I don't think the money will be "tiny", as you say NERT, but it will be less. And with less money and so many more mouths to feed, I don't think it will maximize revenue to stay together.

How is St. John's going to enjoy those road trips to Houston? And how about that intense Georgetown SMU rivalry? Villanova vs. UCF? Wow...TV execs will be drooling to put THAT game on Big Monday.

(05-04-2012 09:13 AM)nert Wrote:  Without an auto bid to a BCS bowl (and frankly - it'll be a very rare year that the next BigEast FB line-up will get an invite for any of the 4 BCS slots, IMO), the money from BigEast FB going forward will be tiny compared to the money they'll be getting for BB. Yes, the dual-persona of the "conference" is weird - with 7 non-FB programs, a national FB program that refuses to play FB under their banner, 2 FB-only additions, a host of conference members that are neither "big" nor "east", and a revolving door of FB playing members.

If they were going to bag the dual-identity of the conference, it should have been when they were down to 5/6 FB-playing schools and it was quite obvious that the BCS was about to dump the BigEast's AQ status (by eliminating AQ status altogether). It's a Big4 BCS now - and the BigEast and ACC aren't in it.

If the split did occur though - I'm not sure what one would call the FB side anyway "C-USA" is already taken.

The people that predict a Big East split never seem to consider the many basketball credits that come from the football members like Lousiville, Cinci, UConn--plus coming additions like Memphis and Temple are likely to be a steady source of future credits. There is a reason there has not been a split. Both sides gain from being together.

(05-04-2012 09:40 AM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 09:13 AM)nert Wrote:  Without an auto bid to a BCS bowl (and frankly - it'll be a very rare year that the next BigEast FB line-up will get an invite for any of the 4 BCS slots, IMO), the money from BigEast FB going forward will be tiny compared to the money they'll be getting for BB. Yes, the dual-persona of the "conference" is weird - with 7 non-FB programs, a national FB program that refuses to play FB under their banner, 2 FB-only additions, a host of conference members that are neither "big" nor "east", and a revolving door of FB playing members.

If they were going to bag the dual-identity of the conference, it should have been when they were down to 5/6 FB-playing schools and it was quite obvious that the BCS was about to dump the BigEast's AQ status (by eliminating AQ status altogether). It's a Big4 BCS now - and the BigEast and ACC aren't in it.

If the split did occur though - I'm not sure what one would call the FB side anyway "C-USA" is already taken.

The people that predict a Big East split never seem to consider the many basketball credits that come from the football members like Lousiville, Cinci, UConn--plus coming additions like Memphis and Temple are likely to be a steady source of future credits. There is a reason there has not been a split. Both sides gain from being together.

Exactly !

It's an almost even split between hoops and football in terms of the credits. If anything recently, on balance- it's been the football schools that have gotten more credits than the hoops schools.

(05-04-2012 07:33 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I still have an Eastern 8 denim briefcase, from the conference formation press conference...

A denim briefcase?

You need to post a pic of that.

(05-04-2012 11:34 AM)Fireman451 Wrote:  

(05-04-2012 07:33 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I still have an Eastern 8 denim briefcase, from the conference formation press conference...

A denim briefcase?

You need to post a pic of that.

I'd need to dig inito the stuff I have stored away. I think I'll pass at the moment. That sounds too much like work...

The wife and I are redecorating, and when we get to that point I'll take a pic and post it. But I'm digging stuff out to display here and there, and I haven't setup an area to display that stuff yet. I'll get to it eventually...

(05-04-2012 07:38 AM)orangefan Wrote:  It's hard to imagine why anyone would form a "new" conference for basketball. The wait period for an autobid is just too long. This is not to say that the existing conference memberships may not be shuffled up.

On the football side, there would seem to be a number of factors pressuring for a shuffling of the memberships of the eastern FCS conferences. Multiple schools are moving up to FBS (UMass, Georgia St., apparently ODU, and possibly JMU and/or Nova). The CAA has lost multiple schools and appears at risk of losing more. The Patriot league is transitioning to allow scholarships (I could see William and Mary and Richmond both considering a move to the Patriot League).

It seems likely that the existing CAA group will need to bring in additional schools. Stony Brook and Albany look like good candidates as football only. Liberty and Coastal Carolina may have interest for all sports.

It's conceivable that the WAC was looking at "adding" eight affiliate FBS football members (JMU, ODU, Delaware, Charlotte, Liberty, Appy St, Ga Southern, Jacksonville St). Those eight wouldn't join the WAC in anything else, but consolidate in the CAA for other sports. After gaining FBS status, those FBS schools leave their WAC affiliation. Under NCAA rules, the CAA would then be an FBS conference. It is possible that CUSA cherry picked ODU and Charlotte out of this group to prevent such a plan from gaining traction.

If the Catholic schools were going to split, the path of least resistance would be to join the WAC. Even if NMSU, Idaho, Boise State, Seattle, and Denver can't be immediately unloaded, the new WAC would be able to collect the exit fees from all of the departing members. If St. Louis and Creighton are interested in joining, some of the WAC 5 might actually be encouraged to stick around.

"WAC"
East - Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, Georgetown
Central - Marquette, DePaul, St. Louis, Notre Dame, Creighton
West - Seattle, Denver, Idaho, Boise State, New Mexico State

The "WAC" could pick up all of the partial members like Sacramento State (baseball, gymnastics), Dallas Baptist (baseball), BYU (softball), where it helps with travel. If Villanova and Notre Dame don't join, the "WAC" could go after schools like BYU, San Francisco, Gonzaga, Detroit, etc.

(05-04-2012 09:12 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  If the Catholic schools were going to split, the path of least resistance would be to join the WAC. Even if NMSU, Idaho, Boise State, Seattle, and Denver can't be immediately unloaded, the new WAC would be able to collect the exit fees from all of the departing members. If St. Louis and Creighton are interested in joining, some of the WAC 5 might actually be encouraged to stick around.

"WAC"
East - Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, Georgetown
Central - Marquette, DePaul, St. Louis, Notre Dame, Creighton
West - Seattle, Denver, Idaho, Boise State, New Mexico State

The "WAC" could pick up all of the partial members like Sacramento State (baseball, gymnastics), Dallas Baptist (baseball), BYU (softball), where it helps with travel. If Villanova and Notre Dame don't join, the "WAC" could go after schools like BYU, San Francisco, Gonzaga, Detroit, etc.

Well played, Sir...

That idea gets a chest bump from Idaho coach Robb Akey!!

Man, I live in Africa but you Big East guys are closer to "denial" than I am.

Yeah, when I think of SMU/Georgetown it makes me forget all about Syracuse/Georgetown. And Seton Hall/Houston...why, I hardly even remember St. John's/Pittsburgh. You guys really need to step back and look at your conference a bit more objectively. It's the conference of mutant toys.

If this Clemson/FSU expansion stuff happens, you'll see your current "cash cows" of UConn and Rutgers gone to the ACC so fast you won't be able to say Rollie Massimino. But, I'm sure, you'll still be able to argue how strong you'll be when the mighty Aztecs and a school from Idaho come to the Big East.

(05-05-2012 10:43 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  Man, I live in Africa but you Big East guys are closer to "denial" than I am.

Yeah, when I think of SMU/Georgetown it makes me forget all about Syracuse/Georgetown. And Seton Hall/Houston...why, I hardly even remember St. John's/Pittsburgh. You guys really need to step back and look at your conference a bit more objectively. It's the conference of mutant toys.

If this Clemson/FSU expansion stuff happens, you'll see your current "cash cows" of UConn and Rutgers gone to the ACC so fast you won't be able to say Rollie Massimino. But, I'm sure, you'll still be able to argue how strong you'll be when the mighty Aztecs and a school from Idaho come to the Big East.

If the Clemson/FSU expansion happens- it all depends on what happens with the OTHER ACC schools. If 4 go Big Ten and 2 go SEC- ACC would be at 4 plus Pitt and Syracuse. Why would Pitt and Syracuse go to that and have a 20 million exit fee when they could stay in Big East and likely have a much larger TV package.

(05-05-2012 10:43 AM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  Man, I live in Africa but you Big East guys are closer to "denial" than I am.

Yeah, when I think of SMU/Georgetown it makes me forget all about Syracuse/Georgetown. And Seton Hall/Houston...why, I hardly even remember St. John's/Pittsburgh. You guys really need to step back and look at your conference a bit more objectively. It's the conference of mutant toys.

If this Clemson/FSU expansion stuff happens, you'll see your current "cash cows" of UConn and Rutgers gone to the ACC so fast you won't be able to say Rollie Massimino. But, I'm sure, you'll still be able to argue how strong you'll be when the mighty Aztecs and a school from Idaho come to the Big East.

+1 That's the best use of that particular metaphor (which is vastly overused IMO) that I've seen in some time. That deserves some credit...

That's a lot of "ifs" stever20. I think if we've learned anything in the past few years is that everything happens slowly and in stages. These ARE major moves... I don't see the ACC imploding with the loss of FSU/Clemson. I see them soldiering on in the short run. We haven't seen an "implosion" yet of any major conference...although the Big 12 and Big East certainly seemed on the brink of it at times. Without the benefit of time, Syracuse and Pitt won't be able to "stick around." They'll be in the ACC by the time any major "seismic" change would happen (i.e. the Big Ten annexing 2-4 ACC gems or the SEC snagging two).