(05-16-2012 11:22 AM)wufan Wrote:  Again, you are just wrong. WU had an at large sewn up if they had lost the championship game that year in the tournament. You are off on a couple of your RPI numbers, but the committee doesn't solely use RPI to invite or seed teams anyway. They also use what quality wins and bad losses you have. ODU was the last at large in that year, Winthrop had some quality top 50 wins, no bad losses, and beat ODU earlier in the season----the committee had Winthrop in over ODU had that scenario played out. Belmont has never been seeded higher than a 13 and has been 15 most years due to no quality wins and bad losses---the resumes aren't even comparable. WU has also won a tourney game---when was the last time someone from the A-Sun has?

I also didn't discount football from the Southern---I just said other than football that conference isn't better than the Big South. Football does make a difference.

The Big South is a better conference, plain and simple.

So by your argument, Winthrop would have been a 12 seed not an 11 had it LOST the BSC Championship game that year? I think a loss in the BSC Championship game, which would have been a BAD loss, would have dropped Winthrop out. Again, we will never know because the Big South was so bad outside of Winthrop nobody had a chance against Winthrop that season.

Even with Winthrop's dominance during the mid-2000's, the A-Sun has had a consistent TOUGHER SOS and BETTER RPI numbers over the last decade. Which to me means, a better overall "Athletic" profile for the sports the two conferences carry.

All I am saying from the start is that on the field of competition, the A-Sun was and is currently stronger. It will continue to be stronger especially if Liberty and Coastal depart the BSC. Liberty probably more of a likelyhood than Coastal at this point. Case in point, the A-SUN has yet to play in any "Play in game." Big South has its champion playing in one of those games 40% (4 of 10 years) of those games.

My question is if we are arguing basketball...outside of the ONE year Winthrop MIGHT have gotten an at-large (I really would like to see a committee member's comments on this in a news story)...what numbers facts other than personal opinion lend you to believe the Big South is better on the field of competition?

BTW...My RPI numbers come from RealtimeRPI.com. While its not the one the committee uses its the same formula so its not off by much.

And in my personal opinion, other than FOOTBALL the A-Sun is a better league (on the field) plain and simple! I have stated multiple times that I think the PR machine with the Big South is better and has a clearer understanding of who they are trying to reach as a fan base.

Yes,

Winthrop would have gotten an at large bid over ODU that year, I guess the committee can do anything---but it would have been really hard to justify leaving Winthrop out with basically the same resume as ODU (actually better) and having beat ODU on their home court. No one had a chance against Winthrop that year because Winthrop was ranked in the top 25. Not many had a chance against them nationally.

RPI and SOS are great if you are talking vast differences between numbers, but the two leagues are always very similar and bounce back and forth. Those numbers mean little or nothing if there is no real big difference in them. You cite the play in game, yet you don't cite that the Big South has had higher seeds than the A-Sun in other years and the A-Sun hasn't won a game.

And then of course, there is football, which the A-Sun doesn't have, there is the fact that schools leave the A-Sun for the Big South (schools don't routinely leave to downgrade just FYI), and the fact that the A-Sun is more of a conference for D1 move ups like USC Upstate (who the Big South wouldn't take).

The Big South is a better conference---you can disagree, but it's the truth.

(05-16-2012 03:17 PM)wufan Wrote:  Yes,

Winthrop would have gotten an at large bid over ODU that year, I guess the committee can do anything---but it would have been really hard to justify leaving Winthrop out with basically the same resume as ODU (actually better) and having beat ODU on their home court. No one had a chance against Winthrop that year because Winthrop was ranked in the top 25. Not many had a chance against them nationally.

RPI and SOS are great if you are talking vast differences between numbers, but the two leagues are always very similar and bounce back and forth. Those numbers mean little or nothing if there is no real big difference in them. You cite the play in game, yet you don't cite that the Big South has had higher seeds than the A-Sun in other years and the A-Sun hasn't won a game.

And then of course, there is football, which the A-Sun doesn't have, there is the fact that schools leave the A-Sun for the Big South (schools don't routinely leave to downgrade just FYI), and the fact that the A-Sun is more of a conference for D1 move ups like USC Upstate (who the Big South wouldn't take).

The Big South is a better conference---you can disagree, but it's the truth.

But the Big South took Longwood, who if memory serves the MEAC didn't want.

We can agree to disagree. I am fine with that. The RPI and ratings are their for a reason and are unbiased. I am a Big South guy, but I just see a difference on the floor and field of play against Campbell from last year to this.

No one wanted Longwood including the Big South. However, once the rumors about conferences having moves taking place, I think the attitude changed considering Longwood, particularly the Big South since Liberty is actively trying to leave. That's fine with me as Liberty brings sub-par programs to the table in the revenue sports and a bad reputation to the league with their name. I'm happy to have Longwood replace them. But that's one school and the A-Sun seems to be a starting point for a lot of those types.
I watch a lot of basketball and am involved in the sport. I've seen plenty of A-Sun and Big South games. There isn't a big difference between the two, but if you are going to give an upper hand to one it's the Big South, simply because the top of the Big South is routinely better than the top of the A-Sun (Winthrop/Coastal/Asheville). Heck Winthrop, with their worst teams in forever the last couple of years, drubbed one of the better A-sun teams a year ago.

I watch a lot of basketball and also involved in the sport. What game are you referring to? The 30 point loss to Belmont in Winston Salem or the 7 point win over JU at home? Only one game classifies as a drubbing in my mind.

I would look at the RPIs of the top three teams in each team for the last decade but I'm tired for at the moment. We can agree to disagree. Also the strength of a league is very rarely decided at the top, it's the bottom half where you keep up league strength.

Back to realignment, Old Dominion will officially announce today that they are leaving the CAA for Conference USA in 2013.

Now we wait to see what the CAA does. League spring meetings will be coming up in a few weeks (CAA, as well as SoCon & Big South). You have to wonder what kind of discussions have already taken place among the leagues.

Lots of talk of Coastal & Stony Brook going to the CAA, which will take 2/7 of Big South football. Liberty has indicated it will remain in the Big South until it gets an FBS conference invite. We'll see.

This is moving much more rapidly than I expected.

(05-17-2012 10:18 AM)OrangeCamel Wrote:  Back to realignment, Old Dominion will officially announce today that they are leaving the CAA for Conference USA in 2013.

Now we wait to see what the CAA does. League spring meetings will be coming up in a few weeks (CAA, as well as SoCon & Big South). You have to wonder what kind of discussions have already taken place among the leagues already.

Lots of talk of Coastal & Stony Brook going to the CAA, which will take 2/7 of Big South football. Liberty has indicated it will remain in the Big South until it gets an FBS conference invite. We'll see.

This is moving much more rapidly than I expected.

With CCU and SB looking to move to CAA, im sure the BSC repeatedly has asked CU if they were ready to move to BSC football. I bet it has increased a little lately. we just dont hear anything about it.

(05-17-2012 10:34 AM)CU97 Wrote:  

(05-17-2012 10:18 AM)OrangeCamel Wrote:  Back to realignment, Old Dominion will officially announce today that they are leaving the CAA for Conference USA in 2013.

Now we wait to see what the CAA does. League spring meetings will be coming up in a few weeks (CAA, as well as SoCon & Big South). You have to wonder what kind of discussions have already taken place among the leagues already.

Lots of talk of Coastal & Stony Brook going to the CAA, which will take 2/7 of Big South football. Liberty has indicated it will remain in the Big South until it gets an FBS conference invite. We'll see.

This is moving much more rapidly than I expected.

With CCU and SB looking to move to CAA, im sure the BSC repeatedly has asked CU if they were ready to move to BSC football. I bet it has increased a little lately. we just dont hear anything about it.

I personally don't think C-U can take the finiancial hit of a scholarship program. Currently, Campbell is operating its entire football program off of tuition dollars earned from 100 kids.

C-U is averaging a tuition, room and board of nearly $30,000 per kid. That is $3 million dollars in revenue before you sell a single ticket and grab the first sponsorship dollar.

If you go scholarships, you lose at least, probably more than $1.9 MILLION in revenue as a University, not just athletics. There is no way with ticket sales or sponsorship dollars that Campbell can make up that amount. Plus, you have to figure out how a scholarship sport then effects your Title IX compliance. Currently as a non-scholly sport it doesn't matter.

The reason football was instituted at CU in the first place was for the tuition dollars. The feasability study would not have been accepted by the University if it had looked at doing scholarship football.

Finally now that it looks like the PFL will be getting a playoff bid, there is no reason to move at all. I think we are a LONG ways away from CU playing scholly football.

My two cents.

(05-17-2012 12:52 PM)Statman101 Wrote:  

(05-17-2012 10:34 AM)CU97 Wrote:  

(05-17-2012 10:18 AM)OrangeCamel Wrote:  Back to realignment, Old Dominion will officially announce today that they are leaving the CAA for Conference USA in 2013.

Now we wait to see what the CAA does. League spring meetings will be coming up in a few weeks (CAA, as well as SoCon & Big South). You have to wonder what kind of discussions have already taken place among the leagues already.

Lots of talk of Coastal & Stony Brook going to the CAA, which will take 2/7 of Big South football. Liberty has indicated it will remain in the Big South until it gets an FBS conference invite. We'll see.

This is moving much more rapidly than I expected.

With CCU and SB looking to move to CAA, im sure the BSC repeatedly has asked CU if they were ready to move to BSC football. I bet it has increased a little lately. we just dont hear anything about it.

I personally don't think C-U can take the finiancial hit of a scholarship program. Currently, Campbell is operating its entire football program off of tuition dollars earned from 100 kids.

C-U is averaging a tuition, room and board of nearly $30,000 per kid. That is $3 million dollars in revenue before you sell a single ticket and grab the first sponsorship dollar.

If you go scholarships, you lose at least, probably more than $1.9 MILLION in revenue as a University, not just athletics. There is no way with ticket sales or sponsorship dollars that Campbell can make up that amount. Plus, you have to figure out how a scholarship sport then effects your Title IX compliance. Currently as a non-scholly sport it doesn't matter.

The reason football was instituted at CU in the first place was for the tuition dollars. The feasability study would not have been accepted by the University if it had looked at doing scholarship football.

Finally now that it looks like the PFL will be getting a playoff bid, there is no reason to move at all. I think we are a LONG ways away from CU playing scholly football.

My two cents.

I agree. The Big South is probably trying hard to persuade Campbell to go scholarship, but it looks like we'll have the auto bid with the PFL so why bother? The PFL is also stable due to its numbers (even more now with Stetson/Mercer).