Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
Author Message
UCF08 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,262
Joined: Feb 2011
Reputation: 211
I Root For: UCF
Location:
Post: #1
Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
This is not meant to rehash the tired arguments surrounding abortion; this is one of the few deeply divisive issues that I believe that each side is legitimately arguing valid points (one side believes they're literally saving babies, the other believes they're protecting womens rights to their body). So please, keep this out of the discussion.

What I'm wondering is where does religion come into play in this? Why is it that those who are deeply religious overwhelmingly support anti-abortion legislation? Their feelings towards this can't simply be accounted for in scripture (the bible doesn't directly address abortion and the verses they use are quite ambiguous at best, in relation to this subject).

What I'm asking is this; there isn't some segment of society which believes in murdering children, as that is how pro-lifers legitimately view abortions, but what does religion have to do with them seeing abortions in that way and why is it so seemingly tied at the hip with the religious right? Why is it that they overwhelmingly view abortion in that light as a whole?

(Again, I'm not interested in the arguments supporting pro-life or pro-choice)
04-20-2012 10:33 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


aTxTIGER Offline
Carrot Dude Gave Me 10% Warning
*

Posts: 35,738
Joined: Feb 2005
Reputation: 924
I Root For: Fire Jose!!!!!
Location: Memphis, TN

Donators
Post: #2
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion


04-20-2012 10:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
UCF08 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,262
Joined: Feb 2011
Reputation: 211
I Root For: UCF
Location:
Post: #3
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
That's catholic dogma, and not really practiced by the majority of the 'religious right' in the US, which is mostly Baptist/Evangelicals/other protestants (or most catholics for that matter, but that's a different argument altogether).
04-20-2012 10:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
aTxTIGER Offline
Carrot Dude Gave Me 10% Warning
*

Posts: 35,738
Joined: Feb 2005
Reputation: 924
I Root For: Fire Jose!!!!!
Location: Memphis, TN

Donators
Post: #4
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
(04-20-2012 10:45 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  That's catholic dogma, and not really practiced by the majority of the 'religious right' in the US, which is mostly Baptist/Evangelicals/other protestants (or most catholics for that matter, but that's a different argument altogether).

....aaaaaaaand that was a joke. Unfortunately, I don't think Monty Python is taught at seminaries.
04-20-2012 10:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
UCF08 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,262
Joined: Feb 2011
Reputation: 211
I Root For: UCF
Location:
Post: #5
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
lol I know it was a joke, but I was just commenting on the legitimate elements it brings up (obviously there can be a connection made between catholic dogma and pro-life support)
04-20-2012 10:49 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DrTorch Offline
Proved mach and GTS to be liars
*

Posts: 35,887
Joined: Jun 2002
Reputation: 201
I Root For: ASU, BGSU
Location:

CrappiesDonatorsBalance of Power Contest
Post: #6
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
(04-20-2012 10:33 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  What I'm asking is this; there isn't some segment of society which believes in murdering children, as that is how pro-lifers legitimately view abortions, but what does religion have to do with them seeing abortions in that way and why is it so seemingly tied at the hip with the religious right? Why is it that they overwhelmingly view abortion in that light as a whole?

(Again, I'm not interested in the arguments supporting pro-life or pro-choice)

So you ask a question but then don't want the answer.

Cognitive dissonance, the essential quality of every leftist.
04-21-2012 07:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


I'mMoreAwesomeThanYou Offline
Medium Pimping
*

Posts: 7,020
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 100
I Root For: America
Location:
Post: #7
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
(04-20-2012 10:33 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  This is not meant to rehash the tired arguments surrounding abortion; this is one of the few deeply divisive issues that I believe that each side is legitimately arguing valid points (one side believes they're literally saving babies, the other believes they're protecting womens rights to their body). So please, keep this out of the discussion.

What I'm wondering is where does religion come into play in this? Why is it that those who are deeply religious overwhelmingly support anti-abortion legislation? Their feelings towards this can't simply be accounted for in scripture (the bible doesn't directly address abortion and the verses they use are quite ambiguous at best, in relation to this subject).

What I'm asking is this; there isn't some segment of society which believes in murdering children, as that is how pro-lifers legitimately view abortions, but what does religion have to do with them seeing abortions in that way and why is it so seemingly tied at the hip with the religious right? Why is it that they overwhelmingly view abortion in that light as a whole?

(Again, I'm not interested in the arguments supporting pro-life or pro-choice)

First of all abortion can be accounted for in scripture. Now, you may not agree with our interpretation of the scripture but to me and most other Christians its pretty clear. People can argue that the word "abortion" isn't in the Bible but neither is the word "pedophile" and we all know that's wrong. Here are some examples of what we believe supports our claim that abortion is a sin.

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

"Truly children are a gift from the Lord; the fruit of the womb is a reward" (Psalm 127:3).

God knows the preborn child. "You knit me in my mother’s womb . . . nor was my frame unknown to you when I was made in secret" (Psalm 139:13,15). God also helps and calls the preborn child. "You have been my guide since I was first formed . . . from my mother’s womb you are my God" (Psalm 22:10-11). "God… from my mother’s womb had set me apart and called me through his grace" (St. Paul to the Galatians 1:15)

I understand the argument that it's a woman's body and it's her "right" to do with it what she wants. But I also understand that if it's her body she could choose not to have unprotected sex or even abstain. As an adult I was always taught that we are responsible for our actions. If I jumped off a roof I would expect to live with the possible consequences...so should a women, in child bearing years, who has unprotected sex. For Christians I think it boils down to three things. 1.) The Bible teaches against it 2.) It's murder in our eyes 3.) Women should be more responsible for their bodies if they don't want the consequences. A baby isn't a STD that a trip to the doctor should eliminate. It's a "consequence" of her/her partners actions.

I do, like most Christians, make exceptions for cases of rape, incest and cases of SEVERE birth defects that would prohibit the child from living pain free and any real capacity.

I also believe the father, if he can be found, should have to give his consent for any abortion to take place. Should the child be murdered if the father would raise it? No. Any abortion, if it must be legal regardless of how immoral I believe it to be, should require BOTH parents consent.

This is just my two cents...and I hope it answers your question.
04-21-2012 07:11 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
UCF08 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,262
Joined: Feb 2011
Reputation: 211
I Root For: UCF
Location:
Post: #8
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
(04-21-2012 07:04 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(04-20-2012 10:33 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  What I'm asking is this; there isn't some segment of society which believes in murdering children, as that is how pro-lifers legitimately view abortions, but what does religion have to do with them seeing abortions in that way and why is it so seemingly tied at the hip with the religious right? Why is it that they overwhelmingly view abortion in that light as a whole?

(Again, I'm not interested in the arguments supporting pro-life or pro-choice)

So you ask a question but then don't want the answer.

Cognitive dissonance, the essential quality of every leftist.

1. That's not what I did there, not at all. You clearly didn't understand the original post.

2. Even if that's what I did, that wouldn't be an example of cognitive dissonance. Learn what terms mean before you use them.


Quote:I understand the argument that it's a woman's body and it's her "right" to do with it what she wants. But I also understand that if it's her body she could choose not to have unprotected sex or even abstain. As an adult I was always taught that we are responsible for our actions. If I jumped off a roof I would expect to live with the possible consequences...so should a women, in child bearing years, who has unprotected sex. For Christians I think it boils down to three things. 1.) The Bible teaches against it 2.) It's murder in our eyes 3.) Women should be more responsible for their bodies if they don't want the consequences. A baby isn't a STD that a trip to the doctor should eliminate. It's a "consequence" of her/her partners actions.

I think that this has some of the other factors I haven't truly thought of in this. I think there is probably a subconscious undercurrent of judgment towards the person having premarital sex and them being viewed as simply wanting to remove themselves from the consequences of their actions, and both of those tend to jive with the views of many in the religious right. Not that I think abortion is that simplistic, nor that I discount the aspect that most of the religious right considers it murder, but I think that can help to explain it.

Basically, if you're viewed as doing something wrong and then doing something wrong to remove the consequences of the first action, it's going to be viewed significantly more negatively than simply just doing one wrong thing. That make sense to you?
04-21-2012 11:03 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DrTorch Offline
Proved mach and GTS to be liars
*

Posts: 35,887
Joined: Jun 2002
Reputation: 201
I Root For: ASU, BGSU
Location:

CrappiesDonatorsBalance of Power Contest
Post: #9
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
(04-21-2012 11:03 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  
(04-21-2012 07:04 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(04-20-2012 10:33 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  What I'm asking is this; there isn't some segment of society which believes in murdering children, as that is how pro-lifers legitimately view abortions, but what does religion have to do with them seeing abortions in that way and why is it so seemingly tied at the hip with the religious right? Why is it that they overwhelmingly view abortion in that light as a whole?

(Again, I'm not interested in the arguments supporting pro-life or pro-choice)

So you ask a question but then don't want the answer.

Cognitive dissonance, the essential quality of every leftist.

1. That's not what I did there, not at all. You clearly didn't understand the original post.

You clearly don't understand the issue.

Quote:2. Even if that's what I did, that wouldn't be an example of cognitive dissonance. Learn what terms mean before you use them.

You want to believe two mutually conflicting ideas. Like that there is an answer to a question that doesn't involve the answer.

Now run along, you're too much of a simpleton for a board like this.
04-21-2012 11:27 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RobertN Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 35,485
Joined: Jan 2003
Reputation: 95
I Root For: THE NIU Huskies
Location: Wayne's World
Post: #10
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
(04-21-2012 11:27 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(04-21-2012 11:03 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  
(04-21-2012 07:04 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(04-20-2012 10:33 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  What I'm asking is this; there isn't some segment of society which believes in murdering children, as that is how pro-lifers legitimately view abortions, but what does religion have to do with them seeing abortions in that way and why is it so seemingly tied at the hip with the religious right? Why is it that they overwhelmingly view abortion in that light as a whole?

(Again, I'm not interested in the arguments supporting pro-life or pro-choice)

So you ask a question but then don't want the answer.

Cognitive dissonance, the essential quality of every leftist.

1. That's not what I did there, not at all. You clearly didn't understand the original post.

You clearly don't understand the issue.

Quote:2. Even if that's what I did, that wouldn't be an example of cognitive dissonance. Learn what terms mean before you use them.

You want to believe two mutually conflicting ideas. Like that there is an answer to a question that doesn't involve the answer.

Now run along, you're too much of a simpleton for a board like this.
Torchy calling someone is just laughable. You are the biggest moron on these boards-and that takes a lot gvien we have SOAF, IAMATY, Rebel etc posting on here.
04-21-2012 11:56 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Paul M Offline
American-American
*

Posts: 21,196
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 649
I Root For: OU
Location: Next to Boomer
Post: #11
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
Robert admits garbage collectors earn more than him. But he doesn't have the motivation to move up in life by applying for a job with them.

Everyone here is well aware of who is the undisputed princess of morons Robby.
04-21-2012 12:05 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


GrayBeard Offline
Whiny Troll
*

Posts: 33,012
Joined: Nov 2003
Reputation: 880
I Root For: My Kids & ECU
Location: 523 Miles From ECU

Crappies
Post: #12
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
My view as a Fundy Christian Conservative (Not Republican)

My answer is two fold, so here is the short of it.

I believe that life starts at conception. That means that killing that life is murder. (Just in case someone wants to go there, no I don't support killing abortion doctors)

Also, we should be accountable for our actions. That means that if we decide to fool around and then...oops...we are pregnant, then you have a responsibility to that child. Whether you ultimately decide to give the child up for adoption or raise them, its not the child's fault they was conceived.
04-21-2012 12:49 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
UCF08 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,262
Joined: Feb 2011
Reputation: 211
I Root For: UCF
Location:
Post: #13
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
Quote:You clearly don't understand the issue.

I'm not discussing the actual issue here, as I made clear on the original post. How about you reread that, and if you don't understand it, don't post? Or is that expecting too much?

Quote:You want to believe two mutually conflicting ideas. Like that there is an answer to a question that doesn't involve the answer.

Now run along, you're too much of a simpleton for a board like this.


1. No, I don't. I haven't stated my belief one way or the other, actually, I was just restating both sides stances so to better explain my actual question.

2. Even if that was what I was doing, WHICH IT ISN'T, that's not what cognitive dissonance is, so your first post was incorrect on both counts, as is this one.

My post was asking for a reason why the religious tend to be skewed so much on the pro-life side despite there being undeniably relatively few references which could be construed as anti-abortion in the bible. Again, plenty of non-religious people are pro-life for the same reasons, and I'm not questioning the validity of that viewpoint. I do thank IAMATY for helping outline something I wasn't accounting for, the viewpoint that premarital or unplanned sex is inherently wrong in most of the religious rights view, and that tends to go hand in hand with many peoples views on abortion. It's a good, valid point, and helps explain a fair amount of this IMO.
04-21-2012 03:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DrTorch Offline
Proved mach and GTS to be liars
*

Posts: 35,887
Joined: Jun 2002
Reputation: 201
I Root For: ASU, BGSU
Location:

CrappiesDonatorsBalance of Power Contest
Post: #14
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
(04-21-2012 03:59 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  It's a good, valid point, and helps explain a fair amount of this IMO.

It's nonsense. Like 100% of your posts to date.

Day-uhm, the bar for college grads gets lower and lower.
04-21-2012 04:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Paul M Offline
American-American
*

Posts: 21,196
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 649
I Root For: OU
Location: Next to Boomer
Post: #15
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
(04-21-2012 03:59 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  My post was asking for a reason why the religious tend to be skewed so much on the pro-life side despite there being undeniably relatively few references which could be construed as anti-abortion in the bible.

Thou shalt not murder is a biggie in the Bible. I can't think of any exceptions to the commandment. Definitely not one for babies.
04-21-2012 05:44 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RobertN Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 35,485
Joined: Jan 2003
Reputation: 95
I Root For: THE NIU Huskies
Location: Wayne's World
Post: #16
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
(04-21-2012 05:44 PM)Paul M Wrote:  
(04-21-2012 03:59 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  My post was asking for a reason why the religious tend to be skewed so much on the pro-life side despite there being undeniably relatively few references which could be construed as anti-abortion in the bible.

Thou shalt not murder is a biggie in the Bible. I can't think of any exceptions to the commandment. Definitely not one for babies.
Says the guy who is pro-death penalty.
04-21-2012 05:49 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


UCF08 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,262
Joined: Feb 2011
Reputation: 211
I Root For: UCF
Location:
Post: #17
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
(04-21-2012 05:44 PM)Paul M Wrote:  
(04-21-2012 03:59 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  My post was asking for a reason why the religious tend to be skewed so much on the pro-life side despite there being undeniably relatively few references which could be construed as anti-abortion in the bible.

Thou shalt not murder is a biggie in the Bible. I can't think of any exceptions to the commandment. Definitely not one for babies.

Well, I was referring to equating abortion to murder .Again, I know all of the scriptures quoted in regards to that, and can see why they're taken that way. I'm just simply saying there's relatively few references that can be taken that way, compared to say the bibles stance on lying, cheating, stealing, worshiping other gods, etc.

Quote:It's nonsense. Like 100% of your posts to date.

Day-uhm, the bar for college grads gets lower and lower.

I was referring to IMATY's post in that sentence, but there's nothing quite like lacking basic reading comprehension while questioning someones intellect to drive the point home.
04-21-2012 06:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Paul M Offline
American-American
*

Posts: 21,196
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 649
I Root For: OU
Location: Next to Boomer
Post: #18
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
What does the number of time something is referenced have to do with anything? A commandment mentioned once isn't really? It must be re-enforced by repetition to carry any weight?
04-21-2012 06:28 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
UCF08 Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,262
Joined: Feb 2011
Reputation: 211
I Root For: UCF
Location:
Post: #19
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
(04-21-2012 06:28 PM)Paul M Wrote:  What does the number of time something is referenced have to do with anything? A commandment mentioned once isn't really? It must be re-enforced by repetition to carry any weight?

I just wouldn't believe god would waste words, and therefore the amount of times something is mentioned is put there for a reason; to keep those always at the forefront of your mind.

EDIT: And since I don't believe the Bible to be the unerring literal word of god, the amount of time something is mentioned has a direct correlation on how I feel about it. Jesus made no issue letting us know what he thought was truly evil, I am wary if something that seems societally based is only mentioned a handful of times and in odd locations (women serving men, etc).
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2012 06:46 PM by UCF08.)
04-21-2012 06:44 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Paul M Offline
American-American
*

Posts: 21,196
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 649
I Root For: OU
Location: Next to Boomer
Post: #20
RE: Honest question regarding Abortion and Religion
Jesus made very clear his feelings for children and the Bible leaves no ambiguity about murder. You really have questions?
04-21-2012 07:23 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.