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OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
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Kruciff Offline
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Post: #1
OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
The new metro rail project in Orlando is a pretty cool thing, and will (hopefully) decongest i-4 and allow people to save some money on gas prices for those that commute from uptown to downtown...

[Image: sunral-map1.png]

But what about UCF? Would it be beneficial to get rails out east / west too? Or does 408 solve that problem effectively?
04-18-2012 04:49 PM
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TampaKnight Offline
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RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
I wish we had reliable rail from Tampa to Orlando. That's a no brainer! Thanks, Dick Scott...

I think the city itself can stick to a vertically-aligned rail system. 408 does what it was designed to accomplish. Frugality is needed.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2012 05:46 PM by TampaKnight.)
04-18-2012 05:45 PM
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CommuterBob Offline
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RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
It's under consideration, but it's not very likely to happen. Unlike SunRail's first 2 phases, there are no tracks from downtown out to UCF, so you're talking a new corridor. The next issue is where to put it. Where to put a 75' wide swath through a completely developed area is a huge problem. How many relocations is the agency willing to pay for? Where do you put it to attract riders?

Probably the only realistic option is to use the OUC spur that runs to the power plant on Alafaya, but that is still miles south of UCF and the only other destination along the route is the airport (which would then require the airport to shuttle people to/from the terminal as the railroad skirts the south edge fo the property. There's little high density development elsewhere on the route, no ability to extend the spur north, and the long route around the airport would kill travel times.

Unless the political will changes dramatically towards transit, I don't think UCF would ever see anything more than bus routes.
04-19-2012 08:26 AM
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Inigo Offline
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RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
The problem is that all of the existing rail corridors that went near UCF were abandoned years ago. The tracks were torn up over the last 2 decades and turned into walking/biking trails like Cady Way and the Cross Seminole Trail. If those were still rail corridors, it would have been easy to implement commuter rail serving the East side of town. They might have only had to purchase a mile or two of new corridor to connect to UCF.

At this point, any future commuter rail serving UCF/East Orlando would have to be incorporated into the right of way for either the East-West Expressway (not ideal) or SR 50 (would be a good candidate, but would require significant investment to widen the right of way enough to put in rail). I don't see that happening any time soon.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2012 11:05 AM by Inigo.)
04-19-2012 11:04 AM
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knightmite Offline
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RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
I think it is important to link it to UCF, the airport and medical complex/school asap. Maybe some type of elevated system to keep down the right of way costs.
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2012 07:52 PM by knightmite.)
05-19-2012 07:51 PM
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #6
RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
As gas prices increase, the demand for transit will too. Fixed rail transit might not be possible, but look for express bus service to provide that link from UCF to downtown.

The medical city/airport will be connected to SunRail via some form of transit as well.
05-20-2012 12:52 PM
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TampaKnight Offline
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RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
Yup, Lake Nona will need connections to the city and to Main Campus.
05-21-2012 07:35 PM
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jaredf29 Offline
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RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
Orlando is officially the worst planned city in the US. The traffic is a nightmare and toll roads are insanity. We don't have the kind of traffic problems here in California that they do there.
05-22-2012 09:52 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
What happened to the plans for the high speed rail from Orlando to Tampa? I remember talks for that project being hot and heavy in 2010. But yea, I4 from Daytona to Orlando was always a mess. I liked using the B Line from the Titusville area.
05-23-2012 03:10 AM
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Delin Offline
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RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
(05-23-2012 03:10 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  What happened to the plans for the high speed rail from Orlando to Tampa? I remember talks for that project being hot and heavy in 2010. But yea, I4 from Daytona to Orlando was always a mess. I liked using the B Line from the Titusville area.

I assume you're talking about the second round of talks for a Florida-wide high speed rail system. We were supposed to get federal funds (Stimulus money I think) and I think the State was supposed to match them (not sure about that though, may have just had to take the money). Rick Scott decided it was a waste of time and money to invest in Florida's infrastructure and the new rail line was one of this first things he killed on entering office.

If you're talking about the original first round of high speed rail talks, that was state constitutional amendment passed during Jeb Bush's tenure. It had to be started within a certain time period after being approved, but the neither the voters nor the legislature appropriated money for it (or tax increases yo pay for construction), and Jeb put it back on the ballot. This time it was a choice of pay for it or remove the amendment. The amendment was killed and then we move on to the situation described earlier.
05-23-2012 07:58 AM
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CommuterBob Offline
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RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
(05-23-2012 07:58 AM)Delin Wrote:  
(05-23-2012 03:10 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  What happened to the plans for the high speed rail from Orlando to Tampa? I remember talks for that project being hot and heavy in 2010. But yea, I4 from Daytona to Orlando was always a mess. I liked using the B Line from the Titusville area.

I assume you're talking about the second round of talks for a Florida-wide high speed rail system. We were supposed to get federal funds (Stimulus money I think) and I think the State was supposed to match them (not sure about that though, may have just had to take the money). Rick Scott decided it was a waste of time and money to invest in Florida's infrastructure and the new rail line was one of this first things he killed on entering office.

If you're talking about the original first round of high speed rail talks, that was state constitutional amendment passed during Jeb Bush's tenure. It had to be started within a certain time period after being approved, but the neither the voters nor the legislature appropriated money for it (or tax increases yo pay for construction), and Jeb put it back on the ballot. This time it was a choice of pay for it or remove the amendment. The amendment was killed and then we move on to the situation described earlier.

That's sort of right, but not quite. The first round of HSR was authorized by a FL constitutional amendment in 2000, then defeated by a second constitutional amendment in 2004 (by a pretty narrow margin IIRC) to simply remove the language from the previous HSR amendment. The study was about 90% done by that point and concept plans had been laid out by that point. Jeb Bush promoted killing it because he didn't like the price tag.

The second round of HSR was going to be funded 90% by the USDOT and the remaining 10% (and any cost overruns) was to be financed by the firms who would build and operate the line. Admittedly, ridership projections were awful, but given the progress of the study and the realtively low cost (as compared to Orlando-Miami) of right-of-way acquisition, it was far cheaper to build as a first leg of a greater system. FL would have been on the hook for nothing to build, operate, or maintain the line for at least 20 years. Rick Scott killed it by announcing that he would refuse the Federal $$ that would go towards building it, saying there was too much risk for the state. Later, the Republican House essentially froze the funding nationally for HSR (which would have basically killed the program anyway) and the only viable HSR project left from Obama's 2009 announcement is in Central CA and is projected to run from Fresno to some point near Bakersfield and has issues that have run up the costs about 30% from initial estimates.
05-23-2012 02:50 PM
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TampaKnight Offline
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RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
Didn't like the price tag, hahaha...according to Keynes, we should be spending a ton of cash right now.

A high speed rail between probably the Top 2 job producing metropoli in the state is a huge reason. It mitigates money flow into the multi-national petroleum companies, and keeps the excess in the state. It's a no-brainer!
05-23-2012 04:22 PM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
(05-23-2012 04:22 PM)TampaKnight Wrote:  Didn't like the price tag, hahaha...according to Keynes, we should be spending a ton of cash right now.

A high speed rail between probably the Top 2 job producing metropoli in the state is a huge reason. It mitigates money flow into the multi-national petroleum companies, and keeps the excess in the state. It's a no-brainer!

I think it should've been built. Unsure if it would've been from Orlando to Tampa or from Daytona to Tampa. But think of the fact you could live in Orlando or Daytona and work in Tampa.
05-23-2012 09:49 PM
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #14
RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
(05-23-2012 09:49 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  
(05-23-2012 04:22 PM)TampaKnight Wrote:  Didn't like the price tag, hahaha...according to Keynes, we should be spending a ton of cash right now.

A high speed rail between probably the Top 2 job producing metropoli in the state is a huge reason. It mitigates money flow into the multi-national petroleum companies, and keeps the excess in the state. It's a no-brainer!

I think it should've been built. Unsure if it would've been from Orlando to Tampa or from Daytona to Tampa. But think of the fact you could live in Orlando or Daytona and work in Tampa.

It would have been from Orlando International Airport to Downtown Tampa, with stops at I-Drive, Disney, and Lakeland. A one-way trip would have taken 30 min. vs. 90 min. by car.
05-23-2012 10:14 PM
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KnightLight Offline
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Post: #15
RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
(04-18-2012 04:49 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  The new metro rail project in Orlando is a pretty cool thing, and will (hopefully) decongest i-4 and allow people to save some money on gas prices for those that commute from uptown to downtown...

[Image: sunral-map1.png]

But what about UCF? Would it be beneficial to get rails out east / west too? Or does 408 solve that problem effectively?

If you are a gang member in Poinciana, Sunrail will do wonders...reach into much "richer" areas with ease.

So stupid...Poinciana? Really?

Not EAST ORLANDO...with the 2nd largest Univ in the Nation...and the top research parks in the entire area?

Poinciana?

More proof Sunrail was all about politics...and had nothing to do with MOVING people around Orlando.
05-28-2012 10:22 AM
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KnightLight Offline
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RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
(05-22-2012 09:52 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Orlando is officially the worst planned city in the US. The traffic is a nightmare and toll roads are insanity. We don't have the kind of traffic problems here in California that they do there.

Orlando BOOMED 20-30 years too late...as most of the federal highway $$$$ were available with ease during the 50's and 60's...which is why some small cities today (i.e. like Lake Charles, LA), has TWO federal interstate highways.
05-28-2012 10:24 AM
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CommuterBob Offline
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RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
(05-28-2012 10:22 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  
(04-18-2012 04:49 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  The new metro rail project in Orlando is a pretty cool thing, and will (hopefully) decongest i-4 and allow people to save some money on gas prices for those that commute from uptown to downtown...

[Image: sunral-map1.png]

But what about UCF? Would it be beneficial to get rails out east / west too? Or does 408 solve that problem effectively?

If you are a gang member in Poinciana, Sunrail will do wonders...reach into much "richer" areas with ease.

So stupid...Poinciana? Really?

Not EAST ORLANDO...with the 2nd largest Univ in the Nation...and the top research parks in the entire area?

Poinciana?

More proof Sunrail was all about politics...and had nothing to do with MOVING people around Orlando.

It's not really Poinciana. The "Poinciana" station is still 11 miles NORTH of the actual development of Poinciana and at least 1 mile from the nearest house to that station. It's called that because it's in the Poinciana Commerce Park and it's at the intersection of Poinciana Boulevard and 17-92.

As for politics, every project is about politics. Orlando had a shot at a light rail system that would have run from OIA to I-drive to downtown that would have been paid for 80% by the feds and one Orange County Commissioner changed her vote to win a re-election (and then later lost a subsequent re-election bid). One freaking commission vote. The system's funding went to Charlotte instead - and they're not only successful with their LRT, they're expanding it.

SunRail was a compromise between at least having *something* versus having nothing. The politics came into play mostly because the freaking lawyers wanted to keep CSX from having liability in train accidents. CSX wasn't just going to give FDOT the tracks and they still have to maintain freight operations on them.
05-28-2012 11:19 AM
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ClairtonPanther Offline
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RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
(05-28-2012 10:24 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  
(05-22-2012 09:52 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Orlando is officially the worst planned city in the US. The traffic is a nightmare and toll roads are insanity. We don't have the kind of traffic problems here in California that they do there.

Orlando BOOMED 20-30 years too late...as most of the federal highway $$$$ were available with ease during the 50's and 60's...which is why some small cities today (i.e. like Lake Charles, LA), has TWO federal interstate highways.

You guys ever drive into Pittsburgh from the Airport. Its a compete joke.
05-28-2012 02:12 PM
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jaredf29 Offline
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RE: OT: Sunrail beneficial for UCF?
Either way Orlando has a serious planning and foresight problem. If they can fix it then they can blossom it can become a much more of a cultural hub.
05-28-2012 06:54 PM
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