http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/1...N620120418

Quote:Already tense U.S. and NATO ties with Afghanistan were dealt another blow on Wednesday with photographs appearing in an American newspaper of U.S. soldiers posing with the maimed bodies of dead Afghan insurgents.
....
The photos are likely to stir up more anti-Western sentiment in Afghanistan as NATO combat troops look to exit the country in 2014 and strengthen fragile security in the country.

Such incidents have complicated U.S. efforts to negotiate a strategic partnership agreement to define its presence once most foreign combat troops pull out by the end of 2014.

Gee, thanks for undermining what little credibility we have left in that region. Bring them home now before they cause more embarrassment.

Quote:The photos are likely to stir up more anti-Western sentiment in Afghanistan

Yup. That'll do it...... straw the broke the Afghan camel's back. No turning back now, it's over. Game over man, game over!

/eyeroll

WTF do we expect?

We train kids right out of HS to be killers...send them to the most god forsaken place on the planet and be under constant fire from an enemy that does not play by "our" rules and is running a guerrilla war. We are now surprised that a few guys get pissed and take a trophy or two? I am frankly surprised at the restraint these soldiers are showing.

(04-18-2012 11:27 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  WTF do we expect?

Professionals that hold themselves to a higher standard?

(04-18-2012 11:47 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 11:27 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  WTF do we expect?

Professionals that hold themselves to a higher standard?

Really? Yet we don't expect that from the Secretary of State?

(04-18-2012 11:27 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  WTF do we expect?

We train kids right out of HS to be killers...send them to the most god forsaken place on the planet and be under constant fire from an enemy that does not play by "our" rules and is running a guerrilla war. We are now surprised that a few guys get pissed and take a trophy or two? I am frankly surprised at the restraint these soldiers are showing.

Although the time to bring them home was about 5 years ago.

(04-18-2012 11:55 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 11:47 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 11:27 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  WTF do we expect?

Professionals that hold themselves to a higher standard?

Really? Yet we don't expect that from the Secretary of State?

Those photos of Sec. Clinton desecrating the dead got out? She must be slipping.

EDIT: More importantly, do you not expect members of the military to hold themselves to a higher standard?

Darn and we were ** THIS ** lose to looking like good guys to those people..

Funny how muted the left is over things like this. I remember a few on here back when Abu Grahib happened were outraged bordering on lunacy over that. Their rants on here are the stuff of legend.

What's changed? Oh yeah, the guy with the CinC title.

(04-18-2012 12:42 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  Funny how muted the left is over things like this. I remember a few on here back when Abu Grahib happened were outraged bordering on lunacy over that. Their rants on here are the stuff of legend.

What's changed? Oh yeah, the guy with the CinC title.

Does this mean I'm not a leftist like some on this board seem to think?

(04-18-2012 12:42 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  Funny how muted the left is over things like this. I remember a few on here back when Abu Grahib happened were outraged bordering on lunacy over that. Their rants on here are the stuff of legend.

What's changed? Oh yeah, the guy with the CinC title.

We aren't outraged? I am. I think maybe that I have just come to expect some soldiers(probably rigthwingers who hate Muslims because they make up most of the military according to you guys) make fools of themselves and the United States.

Btw, what the hell was Rebel doing in Afghanistan?

(04-18-2012 12:53 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 12:42 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  Funny how muted the left is over things like this. I remember a few on here back when Abu Grahib happened were outraged bordering on lunacy over that. Their rants on here are the stuff of legend.

What's changed? Oh yeah, the guy with the CinC title.

Does this mean I'm not a leftist like some on this board seem to think?

You're a leftist, just with more intellectual honesty than most.

(04-18-2012 11:58 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 11:55 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 11:47 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 11:27 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  WTF do we expect?

Professionals that hold themselves to a higher standard?

Really? Yet we don't expect that from the Secretary of State?

Those photos of Sec. Clinton desecrating the dead got out? She must be slipping.

EDIT: More importantly, do you not expect members of the military to hold themselves to a higher standard?

I do expect them to, just as I expect it from myself. The difference between myself and them is that my service isn't infantry and very few are in Afghanistan. I've seen death but it is seen through a drowned stranger and not through our friends body parts scattered from an IED. I've been on a couple of boarding teams that have seized large sums of coke and guns but I've never been regularly shot at and rarely had to worry about it.

I think that professionalism that we call for is easy to maintain on the 1st, 2nd, and maybe 3rd tour but eventually someone's going to become just desensitized enough to not care anymore. I think that it isn't fair to judge unless you've been there.

(04-18-2012 01:40 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 11:58 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 11:55 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 11:47 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 11:27 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  WTF do we expect?

Professionals that hold themselves to a higher standard?

Really? Yet we don't expect that from the Secretary of State?

Those photos of Sec. Clinton desecrating the dead got out? She must be slipping.

EDIT: More importantly, do you not expect members of the military to hold themselves to a higher standard?

I do expect them to, just as I expect it from myself. The difference between myself and them is that my service isn't infantry and very few are in Afghanistan. I've seen death but it is seen through a drowned stranger and not through our friends body parts scattered from an IED. I've been on a couple of boarding teams that have seized large sums of coke and guns but I've never been regularly shot at and rarely had to worry about it.

I think that professionalism that we call for is easy to maintain on the 1st, 2nd, and maybe 3rd tour but eventually someone's going to become just desensitized enough to not care anymore. I think that it isn't fair to judge unless you've been there.

Nobody deserves a "pass" for this type of behavior. Call it judgement or call it standards, but a line was crossed here and there will be consequences.

Fred Reed (Former Marine, Vietnam vet, Washington Times columnist) had a good blog entry about this a while back, right after the U.S. soldier shot up an Afghani village.

Quote:Under a leaden sun that beat down like a soft rubber truncheon, we unlearned civilization. How to clap a hand over a sentry's mouth while inserting your Kbar in his kidney; agony, shock and instant blood loss prevent a struggle. We ran in formation shouting Kill! Kill! Kill! We learned that it is better to shoot an enemy in the bowels than the head because trying to keep him alive would strain the enemy's medical resources, and the man would probalby die anyway. Peritonitis is your friend, we learned. The other guy's peritonitis.

Months later at Lejeune we slogged day after day, on three and a half hours sleep, through the greasy clay mud of a North Carolina autumn, from range to range. We learned flame throwers, which if you haven't you don't know what hell is, and how to burn the enemy alive. Again, that sense of power. We learned to use white phosphorus, WP, Willy Peter or other names less printable, to cover enemies in burning goop that you can't put out. We learned to be what human beings shouldn't be. We felt an exhilarating freedom, of not being subject to moral constraints. We learned to suppress conscience, morality, and empathy. This, more than the use of weapons, is the goal of military training.

Quote:When you have trained men to behave in a certain way, don't be surprised when they do.

http://www.fredoneverything.net/MyLai.shtml

Yes, the fact that soldiers have pictures of exploded body parts from SUICIDE BOMBERS is the REAL problem here. Not the fact that the assbackwards country for some reason holds them in high regard. Or the fact that the Times decided to publish 2 year old photos with no relevance to current events.

(04-18-2012 02:36 PM)T-Monay820 Wrote:  Yes, the fact that soldiers have pictures of exploded body parts from SUICIDE BOMBERS is the REAL problem here. Not the fact that the assbackwards country for some reason holds them in high regard. Or the fact that the Times decided to publish 2 year old photos with no relevance to current events.

Is there anything wrong with the behavior of these soldiers? Is this something that Americans should be proud of?

If you don't support their actions, then don't defend it.

(04-18-2012 02:30 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  Fred Reed (Former Marine, Vietnam vet, Washington Times columnist) had a good blog entry about this a while back, right after the U.S. soldier shot up an Afghani village.

Quote:Under a leaden sun that beat down like a soft rubber truncheon, we unlearned civilization. How to clap a hand over a sentry's mouth while inserting your Kbar in his kidney; agony, shock and instant blood loss prevent a struggle. We ran in formation shouting Kill! Kill! Kill! We learned that it is better to shoot an enemy in the bowels than the head because trying to keep him alive would strain the enemy's medical resources, and the man would probalby die anyway. Peritonitis is your friend, we learned. The other guy's peritonitis.

Months later at Lejeune we slogged day after day, on three and a half hours sleep, through the greasy clay mud of a North Carolina autumn, from range to range. We learned flame throwers, which if you haven't you don't know what hell is, and how to burn the enemy alive. Again, that sense of power. We learned to use white phosphorus, WP, Willy Peter or other names less printable, to cover enemies in burning goop that you can't put out. We learned to be what human beings shouldn't be. We felt an exhilarating freedom, of not being subject to moral constraints. We learned to suppress conscience, morality, and empathy. This, more than the use of weapons, is the goal of military training.

Quote:When you have trained men to behave in a certain way, don't be surprised when they do.

http://www.fredoneverything.net/MyLai.shtml

Is this supposed to normalize their behavior? It only makes me more ashamed.

(04-18-2012 02:05 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 01:40 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 11:58 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 11:55 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 11:47 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  Professionals that hold themselves to a higher standard?

Really? Yet we don't expect that from the Secretary of State?

Those photos of Sec. Clinton desecrating the dead got out? She must be slipping.

EDIT: More importantly, do you not expect members of the military to hold themselves to a higher standard?

I do expect them to, just as I expect it from myself. The difference between myself and them is that my service isn't infantry and very few are in Afghanistan. I've seen death but it is seen through a drowned stranger and not through our friends body parts scattered from an IED. I've been on a couple of boarding teams that have seized large sums of coke and guns but I've never been regularly shot at and rarely had to worry about it.

I think that professionalism that we call for is easy to maintain on the 1st, 2nd, and maybe 3rd tour but eventually someone's going to become just desensitized enough to not care anymore. I think that it isn't fair to judge unless you've been there.

Nobody deserves a "pass" for this type of behavior. Call it judgement or call it standards, but a line was crossed here and there will be consequences.

There will be consequences and they will be handed down by people who have been a lot closer to it than us.

This is a fukken war, emotions are high, and it's natural to celebrate a victory when your life is on the line. Terrell Owens went bonkers for just scoring a touchdown, imagine how he might have acted if he was in a fight for his life and came out victorious? You mess with the bull and you get the horns.