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The "Independent" Mind
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #1
The "Independent" Mind
Looking at Gallup on the Presidential elections.

Romney Obama

R 90 6

I 45 39

D 6 90


Does anyone have studies on what makes the Independents tick???? Native Georgian seems connected. I wonder if he has any research avaiable to him. Obviously that's the constiuency you have to nail down. Or... do you just excite your base and try to disenfranchise your opponents base? There has to be case studies out there or better yet people have to be in a back room right now working on the case study for 2012. This aspect of political theatre intrigues me.

My two guesses

Republicans- Gas prices. Tie Obama to them. Let loose the hounds. Rinse and repeat. Their own little form of class warfare. King Obama traveling the globe.


Democrats- Vaginal ultra sounds. Class warefare. Rich don't pay enough taxes. yada yada yada



This (even with the admittance of my bias) is where the RED machine plays the game soooo much better.

Above. Who attacks the other side better?? Who parrys the attack better???? and it's not even close. I honestly believe that GOP voters don't remember gas prices after Katrina. They buy the "gas prices have hiked 187%" hook, line, and sinker. My side teases the low informed voter, but in reality they are more engaged and more informed to the "company message" than the D voter. Who has a better avenue to get the message to the masses?

I may have to buckle down and just become a Republican because I like to be a winner. The RED side just plays the game better. They know the marrow of their electorate. My side is an unorganized wandering group of collectivists dying of thirst with a map to the watering hole.
04-17-2012 08:44 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #2
RE: The "Independent" Mind
(04-17-2012 08:44 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  My two guesses

Republicans- Gas prices. Tie Obama to them. Let loose the hounds. Rinse and repeat. Their own little form of class warfare. King Obama traveling the globe.

Democrats- Vaginal ultra sounds. Class warefare. Rich don't pay enough taxes. yada yada yada

This (even with the admittance of my bias) is where the RED machine plays the game soooo much better.

Uh, you do know who won the last election don't you? And 3 of the last 5. (And some true believers even say 5 of the last 5)
04-17-2012 09:15 AM
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Machiavelli Offline
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RE: The "Independent" Mind
Another unsettling thing to me is fact we are essentially governed by the wishy washy types. The people who sway the elections are the people who may not be paying attention. Or..... is it more just firing up your base? I believe recent history has shown more and more people are voting. So the game plan now might be to fire up your base as much as you can. I just find it interesting.


Now from what Torch says above. It's just might be the paranoid competitive part of me coming out. I always imagine the other guy working harder. My competition has it better than me mindset. Howard Ferguson always tried to work twice as hard selling real estate as his competitors. He would work 16 hours a day. He then thought someone had to be twice as good as him selling for them to beat him. Paranoia can be a strong motivator.
04-17-2012 12:15 PM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #4
RE: The "Independent" Mind
(04-17-2012 12:15 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Another unsettling thing to me is fact we are essentially governed by the wishy washy types. The people who sway the elections are the people who may not be paying attention. Or..... is it more just firing up your base? I believe recent history has shown more and more people are voting. So the game plan now might be to fire up your base as much as you can. I just find it interesting.

Wait, what? Independents are wishy washy and not paying attention? Pardon my French, but **** you. 03-wink For crying out loud, it's the independents who ARE paying attention. It takes a hell of a lot more time and energy to sort through the issues and find your position than to vote the straight party ticket.

Wow. I hope I misunderstood your post.
04-17-2012 12:27 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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RE: The "Independent" Mind
I think you are misunderstanding my position. I think in the last few elections 04' and 08". Moreso in 04' A large percent, like 10-15%, started paying attention two weeks before the election. That's unsettling to me.
04-17-2012 12:36 PM
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nomad2u2001 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: The "Independent" Mind
I think those that are willing to be apart of either party shouldn't be allowed to vote.
04-17-2012 12:40 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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RE: The "Independent" Mind
I have an Independent streak. I voted for Voinovich. I have voted for R's before. I think you would be hard pressed to find too many R types in here who have crossed over.
04-17-2012 12:40 PM
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RE: The "Independent" Mind
(04-17-2012 12:40 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I have an Independent streak. I voted for Voinovich. I have voted for R's before. I think you would be hard pressed to find too many R types in here who have crossed over.

I voted for Zell Miller. ...and Perot in '92, Perot in '96. Problem is, I'm fiscally conservative and will vote for a Republican that lies to me about being a fiscal conservative over a Democrat that flat out tells me he supports Socialism, without actually saying he supports Socialism. So, while being socially libertarian, I'm not gay, don't do drugs, and don't have a womb so I will never vote social politics over fiscal politics. They simply do not effect me. Sorry to break your little heart.
04-17-2012 12:43 PM
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RobertN Offline
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RE: The "Independent" Mind
(04-17-2012 12:43 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(04-17-2012 12:40 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I have an Independent streak. I voted for Voinovich. I have voted for R's before. I think you would be hard pressed to find too many R types in here who have crossed over.

I voted for Zell Miller. ...and Perot in '92, Perot in '96. Problem is, I'm fiscally conservative and will vote for a Republican that lies to me about being a fiscal conservative over a Democrat that flat out tells me he supports Socialism, without actually saying he supports Socialism. So, while being socially libertarian, I'm not gay, don't do drugs, and don't have a womb so I will never vote social politics over fiscal politics. They simply do not effect me. Sorry to break your little heart.
So you have finally completely stopped using your meds? Yikes. With all your weapons and ammo, this isn't a good thing. :noisycricket:
04-17-2012 12:49 PM
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RE: The "Independent" Mind
(04-17-2012 12:49 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(04-17-2012 12:43 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(04-17-2012 12:40 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I have an Independent streak. I voted for Voinovich. I have voted for R's before. I think you would be hard pressed to find too many R types in here who have crossed over.

I voted for Zell Miller. ...and Perot in '92, Perot in '96. Problem is, I'm fiscally conservative and will vote for a Republican that lies to me about being a fiscal conservative over a Democrat that flat out tells me he supports Socialism, without actually saying he supports Socialism. So, while being socially libertarian, I'm not gay, don't do drugs, and don't have a womb so I will never vote social politics over fiscal politics. They simply do not effect me. Sorry to break your little heart.
So you have finally completely stopped using your meds? Yikes. With all your weapons and ammo, this isn't a good thing. :noisycricket:

I haven't done drugs in over 20 years, King Incompetent.
04-17-2012 01:32 PM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #11
RE: The "Independent" Mind
(04-17-2012 12:36 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I think you are misunderstanding my position. I think in the last few elections 04' and 08". Moreso in 04' A large percent, like 10-15%, started paying attention two weeks before the election. That's unsettling to me.

And all of them were independents? Are you complaining about independents or last minute voters? What does "paying attention" mean? Does it mean they started doing their research? They started listening to speeches?

I'm not even sure I have a problem with the late start. If I was completely in the dark on the candidates (and this is EXTREMELY hard to do for just about anyone in our media-round-the-clock era) but decided two weeks before the election to start researching the candidates and their positions, I'd probably know all I needed to know in about 2 days. When there are only two candidates that have a chance to win, do you really have to know EVERYTHING about them before you decide? Just as importantly, how much CAN you know about them?

It didn't take much research for me to know that I'm not going to vote for either D or R this election. But I'm a CA resident so my vote doesn't matter.
04-17-2012 01:44 PM
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Jugnaut Offline
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Post: #12
RE: The "Independent" Mind
As an independent, I think the independent mind is greatly disappointed with both parties for whatever reason. For me, as a libertarian minded independent, I see both republicans and democrats as essentially the same. They're both going to fight wars overseas, increase spending, increase deficits, trample my liberties, give hand-outs to their friends, and generally screw the country. I mean honestly, how can anyone consider Obama's term anything but a continuation of Bush's policies? It's like he's Bush III. Obama just upped the ante...Two wars? Let's add Libya! Guantanamo bay? Let's pass the NDAA and lock up citizens without charges forever! Let's assassinate Americans while we're at it! Half a trillion deficits? Let's make that a trillion and a half! Wall street is the a crony that is taking over Washington and is too big to fail? Let's give them more money and power! Spying on Americans is bad? Let's control the internet and record all e-mails and internet searches! Social Security and Medicare are unsustainable? Let's just keep looking the other way.

No matter which side wins, we're f*cked. Hyperinflation and currency collapse here we come. Each side will keep getting voted out each election for being the same as the other.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2012 06:21 PM by Jugnaut.)
04-17-2012 06:19 PM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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RE: The "Independent" Mind
(04-17-2012 06:19 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  As an independent, I think the independent mind is greatly disappointed with both parties for whatever reason. For me, as a libertarian minded independent, I see both republicans and democrats as essentially the same. They're both going to fight wars overseas, increase spending, increase deficits, trample my liberties, give hand-outs to their friends, and generally screw the country. I mean honestly, how can anyone consider Obama's term anything but a continuation of Bush's policies? It's like he's Bush III. Obama just upped the ante...Two wars? Let's add Libya! Guantanamo bay? Let's pass the NDAA and lock up citizens without charges forever! Let's assassinate Americans while we're at it! Half a trillion deficits? Let's make that a trillion and a half! Wall street is the a crony that is taking over Washington and is too big to fail? Let's give them more money and power! Spying on Americans is bad? Let's control the internet and record all e-mails and internet searches! Social Security and Medicare are unsustainable? Let's just keep looking the other way.

Preach on Brother.

Quote:No matter which side wins, we're f*cked. Hyperinflation and currency collapse here we come. Each side will keep getting voted out each election for being the same as the other.

I'm with Owl #s on this one: Rooting for gridlock in DC. It may be a longshot that we'll ever get things under control but perhaps we'll kick the can down the road far enough that there's at least a *chance* to fix things.
04-17-2012 06:44 PM
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RE: The "Independent" Mind
I'm so independent that I have trouble even voting for an independent. Basically...I despise almost ALL politicians. I trust almost none of them. I have almost no faith in any of them to do anything but pander to their bases and line the pockets of those that got them elected. Once in a while one comes along that I have some faith in...unfortunately...they are marginalized by the two gangs of thieves and thus dismissed by the public.

I have zero faith at this point in the two party system being able to stop the growth of government and our eventual demise. I believe it is not a matter of IF we self destruct under bloated, blood sucking Federalism..but WHEN. IMO..the die is cast and our come out roll is snake eyes.
04-17-2012 06:56 PM
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Jugnaut Offline
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RE: The "Independent" Mind
(04-17-2012 06:56 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I have almost no faith in any of them to do anything but pander to their bases and line the pockets of those that got them elected. Once in a while one comes along that I have some faith in...unfortunately...they are marginalized by the two gangs of thieves and thus dismissed by the public.

I have zero faith at this point in the two party system being able to stop the growth of government and our eventual demise.

Your post made me think of one of my favorite songs:
Machines of Loving Grace - Butterfly Wings



"Don't place faith in human beings
human beings are unreliable things..."
04-17-2012 08:58 PM
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The "Independent" Mind
(04-17-2012 08:58 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  
(04-17-2012 06:56 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I have almost no faith in any of them to do anything but pander to their bases and line the pockets of those that got them elected. Once in a while one comes along that I have some faith in...unfortunately...they are marginalized by the two gangs of thieves and thus dismissed by the public.

I have zero faith at this point in the two party system being able to stop the growth of government and our eventual demise.



"Don't place faith in human beings
human beings are unreliable things..."

That's why I'm a limited government, independent and can't EVER vote for a leftist Democrat.
04-18-2012 09:02 AM
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