(04-15-2012 01:54 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Mac, serious question. Given a choice between two policy alternatives, one of which would enrich the "wealthy" while making everyone else better off and the other of which would hurt the "rich" but also make everyone else worse off, which would you choose? In short is it more important to make the rich poorer or to make the poor richer?

So A makes everyone better off and B makes everyone worse off? A then obviously.

It's more important to make the poor richer.

(04-15-2012 02:00 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 01:49 PM)Max Power Wrote:  and others who can't afford to go to court for divorces or restraining orders or what have you.

A person can do that without a lawyer.

Technically you could do anything without a lawyer. You can do your own open heart surgery too.

(04-15-2012 03:30 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 02:50 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 02:31 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 02:22 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 02:14 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  Why?

Because it is based on the belief that "trickle down" works.

So if a rich person buys a mansion or boat the people who make and maintain them don't get paid or do they do that crap for free? How much trickle down $$$ does a Welfare queen offer up? And not to her crack dealer, but to the economy?

Man..You are trying to reason with a Socialist...

Sorry Ayn. I am not a socialist or communist. I am someone who thinks. Tell me, who creates more jobs, a wealthy person who buys a yacht and puts the rrest in savings or the equivalent number of middle class(same amount of income/investment profit as he wealthy person) who spend most of their income/investment profit?

Well think about this: How many jobs were created, how much taxes were paid, and how much did the LA economy profit just from the existence of Michael Jackson?

(04-15-2012 04:23 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 03:30 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 02:50 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 02:31 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 02:22 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Because it is based on the belief that "trickle down" works.

So if a rich person buys a mansion or boat the people who make and maintain them don't get paid or do they do that crap for free? How much trickle down $$$ does a Welfare queen offer up? And not to her crack dealer, but to the economy?

Man..You are trying to reason with a Socialist...

Sorry Ayn. I am not a socialist or communist. I am someone who thinks. Tell me, who creates more jobs, a wealthy person who buys a yacht and puts the rrest in savings or the equivalent number of middle class(same amount of income/investment profit as he wealthy person) who spend most of their income/investment profit?

Sorry Carl...I call it like I see it...and....You are full of sh!t. Just who in the hell builds the damn yacht? I guess you think the damn things just magically appear? I swear...my damn daughter knew more about economics at age 15 than you do now.

How much of the rich guy's income is he spending on the yacht?

The rich don't spend near the percentage of their income the middle and lower classes do. That's why putting a dollar in the pocket of a lower class person does more for the economy than putting it in the rich person's pocket.

(04-15-2012 04:35 PM)Max Power Wrote:  How much of the rich guy's income is he spending on the yacht?

The rich don't spend near the percentage of their income the middle and lower classes do. That's why putting a dollar in the pocket of a lower class person does more for the economy than putting it in the rich person's pocket.

The lower class person is having a dollar put in his pocket when he builds a boat or house. Besides, having all that money isn't as trumped up as you would like us to believe. As soon as a guys makes a few bucks some lawyer will sue him for it.

The lower class person is having a dollar put in his pocket when he works at the supermarket (and by extension food producers) or auto dealership (and by extension auto factory) when another lower class person spends HIS dollar.

Yeah f'kin lawyers.

(04-15-2012 10:27 AM)Max Power Wrote:  Considering my services are worth at least $200/hour [...]

I'm guessing you spent long years in school and worked your butt off, oftentimes burying yourself in books and case studies during evenings while some of your buddies partied it up. Maybe the job "strain" isn't so much more than other fields (such as factory workers). But you entered a difficult career with high demand and relatively limited supply, resulting in your much higher-than-average income. For that, kudos to you... and certainly anyone else who went down a similar path and makes a similar income.

(04-15-2012 04:50 PM)Max Power Wrote:  The lower class person is having a dollar put in his pocket when he works at the supermarket (and by extension food producers) or auto dealership (and by extension auto factory) when another lower class person spends HIS dollar.

Rich people have been known to buy food, cars, etc. In fact, how many high end eateries that cater to rich folks employ...drumroll...people? Why is the left's solution to everything to take what someone else has? It didn't work for Saddam Hussein, why should it work for Obama & Co?

(04-15-2012 04:50 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Yeah f'kin lawyers.

I was just bust'n ya.

(04-15-2012 04:35 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 04:23 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 03:30 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 02:50 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 02:31 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  So if a rich person buys a mansion or boat the people who make and maintain them don't get paid or do they do that crap for free? How much trickle down $$$ does a Welfare queen offer up? And not to her crack dealer, but to the economy?

Man..You are trying to reason with a Socialist...

Sorry Ayn. I am not a socialist or communist. I am someone who thinks. Tell me, who creates more jobs, a wealthy person who buys a yacht and puts the rrest in savings or the equivalent number of middle class(same amount of income/investment profit as he wealthy person) who spend most of their income/investment profit?

Sorry Carl...I call it like I see it...and....You are full of sh!t. Just who in the hell builds the damn yacht? I guess you think the damn things just magically appear? I swear...my damn daughter knew more about economics at age 15 than you do now.

How much of the rich guy's income is he spending on the yacht?

The rich don't spend near the percentage of their income the middle and lower classes do. That's why putting a dollar in the pocket of a lower class person does more for the economy than putting it in the rich person's pocket.

I call fabrics. I never met a poor person that met a damn payroll. I guess you think jobs grow on trees? Just who in the hell is putting the dollars in the pockets of people? Most people don't want to depend on the government for their income. Most of us actually do sh!t for a living. That sh!t we do...is not provided by the poor unless you are damn welfare bureaucrat.

As for the original thread post... I'm having a great amount of trouble correlating "preference of free markets and limited government" with "satisfaction at seeing lifeboats not filled to capacity and watching people die."

It's the Anarchy Strawman. Believe it or not, you can lean right and actually support some laws and regulations, such as those that say that a cruise must have a lifeboat spot ready and available for each person onboard. Just like you can lean left and still not support Soviet gulags.

(04-15-2012 05:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 04:35 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 04:23 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 03:30 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 02:50 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Man..You are trying to reason with a Socialist...

Sorry Ayn. I am not a socialist or communist. I am someone who thinks. Tell me, who creates more jobs, a wealthy person who buys a yacht and puts the rrest in savings or the equivalent number of middle class(same amount of income/investment profit as he wealthy person) who spend most of their income/investment profit?

Sorry Carl...I call it like I see it...and....You are full of sh!t. Just who in the hell builds the damn yacht? I guess you think the damn things just magically appear? I swear...my damn daughter knew more about economics at age 15 than you do now.

How much of the rich guy's income is he spending on the yacht?

The rich don't spend near the percentage of their income the middle and lower classes do. That's why putting a dollar in the pocket of a lower class person does more for the economy than putting it in the rich person's pocket.

I call fabrics. I never met a poor person that met a damn payroll. I guess you think jobs grow on trees? Just who in the hell is putting the dollars in the pockets of people? Most people don't want to depend on the government for their income. Most of us actually do sh!t for a living. That sh!t we do...is not provided by the poor unless you are damn welfare bureaucrat.

Who is putting the dollars in the pockets of the rich? I am also going to guess that most jobs are being created by the middle class NOT the wealthy. You know, small busiesses?

(04-15-2012 04:44 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 04:35 PM)Max Power Wrote:  How much of the rich guy's income is he spending on the yacht?

The rich don't spend near the percentage of their income the middle and lower classes do. That's why putting a dollar in the pocket of a lower class person does more for the economy than putting it in the rich person's pocket.

The lower class person is having a dollar put in his pocket when he builds a boat or house. Besides, having all that money isn't as trumped up as you would like us to believe. As soon as a guys makes a few bucks some lawyer will sue him for it.

I remember a thread on another message board years ago, where the poster complained bitterly about some high-profile wedding and reception: I think it was $1 million spent on some televised wedding for The Bachelorette or something like that. It was the usual gripe about the evil rich squandering their money on useless crap, etc.

Sure, that cost is over-the-top and gaudy. But then I simply pointed out how many less-than-wealthy chefs, caterers, servers, cameramen, V/A guys, make-up artists, fashion consultants, tailors, florists, custodians, etc, got a nice check from working that one gig.

(04-15-2012 05:11 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  As for the original thread post... I'm having a great amount of trouble correlating "preference of free markets and limited government" with "satisfaction at seeing lifeboats not filled to capacity and watching people die."

It's the Anarchy Strawman. Believe it or not, you can lean right and actually support some laws and regulations, such as those that say that a cruise must have a lifeboat spot ready and available for each person onboard. Just like you can lean left and still not support Soviet gulags.

Yes..that is a fair assessment. Additionally..the insurance industry has a large part in insuring workplace safety and consumer protection today. Business simply can not afford the risk of calamities such as the Titanic today with out being insured against loss of capital and legal protection in the case of lawsuits.

(04-15-2012 04:35 PM)Max Power Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 04:23 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 03:30 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 02:50 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 02:31 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  So if a rich person buys a mansion or boat the people who make and maintain them don't get paid or do they do that crap for free? How much trickle down $$$ does a Welfare queen offer up? And not to her crack dealer, but to the economy?

Man..You are trying to reason with a Socialist...

Sorry Ayn. I am not a socialist or communist. I am someone who thinks. Tell me, who creates more jobs, a wealthy person who buys a yacht and puts the rrest in savings or the equivalent number of middle class(same amount of income/investment profit as he wealthy person) who spend most of their income/investment profit?

Sorry Carl...I call it like I see it...and....You are full of sh!t. Just who in the hell builds the damn yacht? I guess you think the damn things just magically appear? I swear...my damn daughter knew more about economics at age 15 than you do now.

How much of the rich guy's income is he spending on the yacht?

The rich don't spend near the percentage of their income the middle and lower classes do. That's why putting a dollar in the pocket of a lower class person does more for the economy than putting it in the rich person's pocket.

Hey Robert, Max. What happens with that money the rich put into savings or invest?

(04-15-2012 05:13 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Who is putting the dollars in the pockets of the rich?

The people who buy their stuff, the stuff that is so important to them that even poor people but it, you know, TVs, cell phones, tatoos, bling, rap CDs, and drugs.

(04-15-2012 05:13 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I am also going to guess that most jobs are being created by the middle class NOT the wealthy. You know, small busiesses?

Where do those small businesses get their capital from? Who supplies them? Insures them? Taxes them?

(04-15-2012 05:18 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 04:44 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 04:35 PM)Max Power Wrote:  How much of the rich guy's income is he spending on the yacht?

The rich don't spend near the percentage of their income the middle and lower classes do. That's why putting a dollar in the pocket of a lower class person does more for the economy than putting it in the rich person's pocket.

The lower class person is having a dollar put in his pocket when he builds a boat or house. Besides, having all that money isn't as trumped up as you would like us to believe. As soon as a guys makes a few bucks some lawyer will sue him for it.

I remember a thread on another message board years ago, where the poster complained bitterly about some high-profile wedding and reception: I think it was $1 million spent on some televised wedding for The Bachelorette or something like that. It was the usual gripe about the evil rich squandering their money on useless crap, etc.

Sure, that cost is over-the-top and gaudy. But then I simply pointed out how many less-than-wealthy chefs, caterers, servers, cameramen, V/A guys, make-up artists, fashion consultants, tailors, florists, custodians, etc, got a nice check from working that one gig.

I once heard a talk show host say that Trump generates so much money, directly or indirectly employs so many people, he is his own economy.

(04-15-2012 04:50 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Yeah f'kin lawyers.

BTW, ever sue a person who has no money? Why not? Oh, you're in it for the money, too, I forgot.

I don't begrudge what you do, but lawyers are easy targets these days.....and most other days, too.

(04-15-2012 05:13 PM)RobertN Wrote:  most jobs are being created by the middle class NOT the wealthy. You know, small busiesses?

So you don't scorn them until after they're successful.

Gotcha.

(04-15-2012 06:23 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 05:18 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 04:44 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 04:35 PM)Max Power Wrote:  How much of the rich guy's income is he spending on the yacht?

The rich don't spend near the percentage of their income the middle and lower classes do. That's why putting a dollar in the pocket of a lower class person does more for the economy than putting it in the rich person's pocket.

The lower class person is having a dollar put in his pocket when he builds a boat or house. Besides, having all that money isn't as trumped up as you would like us to believe. As soon as a guys makes a few bucks some lawyer will sue him for it.

I remember a thread on another message board years ago, where the poster complained bitterly about some high-profile wedding and reception: I think it was $1 million spent on some televised wedding for The Bachelorette or something like that. It was the usual gripe about the evil rich squandering their money on useless crap, etc.

Sure, that cost is over-the-top and gaudy. But then I simply pointed out how many less-than-wealthy chefs, caterers, servers, cameramen, V/A guys, make-up artists, fashion consultants, tailors, florists, custodians, etc, got a nice check from working that one gig.

I once heard a talk show host say that Trump generates so much money, directly or indirectly employs so many people, he is his own economy.

No doubt.

Look around at the JOB producers. Entreprenuers like Gates with Microsoft, Fred Smith at FedEx, Walton at Wal-mart/Sam's Club.

Yeah, they're MEGA-WEALTHY, so they immediately draw the ire and scorn of Robert and the other socialist darlings who detest the 1% (or, in those cases, the .001%). But DAMN did these men pursue a vision and ultimately produce a LOT of good paying jobs, both blue andwhite collar, for this country.

Whoever brought up the point about the welfare queen's inability to create "tricle UP" wealth/jobs - spot on. Most business owners are fairly well off and in a position to hire people. Not the poor.

(04-15-2012 08:51 PM)boss man Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 06:23 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 05:18 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 04:44 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 04:35 PM)Max Power Wrote:  How much of the rich guy's income is he spending on the yacht?

The rich don't spend near the percentage of their income the middle and lower classes do. That's why putting a dollar in the pocket of a lower class person does more for the economy than putting it in the rich person's pocket.

The lower class person is having a dollar put in his pocket when he builds a boat or house. Besides, having all that money isn't as trumped up as you would like us to believe. As soon as a guys makes a few bucks some lawyer will sue him for it.

I remember a thread on another message board years ago, where the poster complained bitterly about some high-profile wedding and reception: I think it was $1 million spent on some televised wedding for The Bachelorette or something like that. It was the usual gripe about the evil rich squandering their money on useless crap, etc.

Sure, that cost is over-the-top and gaudy. But then I simply pointed out how many less-than-wealthy chefs, caterers, servers, cameramen, V/A guys, make-up artists, fashion consultants, tailors, florists, custodians, etc, got a nice check from working that one gig.

I once heard a talk show host say that Trump generates so much money, directly or indirectly employs so many people, he is his own economy.

No doubt.

Look around at the JOB producers. Entreprenuers like Gates with Microsoft, Fred Smith at FedEx, Walton at Wal-mart/Sam's Club.

Yeah, they're MEGA-WEALTHY, so they immediately draw the ire and scorn of Robert and the other socialist darlings who detest the 1% (or, in those cases, the .001%). But DAMN did these men pursue a vision and ultimately produce a LOT of good paying jobs, both blue andwhite collar, for this country.

Whoever brought up the point about the welfare queen's inability to create "tricle UP" wealth/jobs - spot on. Most business owners are fairly well off and in a position to hire people. Not the poor.

You are a liar. I don't detest the 1% and I am not a socialist(or a communist either).