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ICB Offline
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Post: #121
RE: Ark hasn't started search
(04-12-2012 11:21 AM)blazr Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 08:24 AM)ICB Wrote:  Noone is denying that this is a great opportunity for him, bad timing yes! However, if he is leaving... then do so already. I want the coach that will be coaching come September, to be the coach for the Spring game.

Why would that matter? It won't be the same players this Fall...
Are you expecting a mass exodus of players prior to the fall? Or maybe I am not understanding your response.
04-12-2012 12:24 PM
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Uncle BLAZER Offline
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Post: #122
RE: Ark hasn't started search
(04-12-2012 12:24 PM)ICB Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 11:21 AM)blazr Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 08:24 AM)ICB Wrote:  Noone is denying that this is a great opportunity for him, bad timing yes! However, if he is leaving... then do so already. I want the coach that will be coaching come September, to be the coach for the Spring game.

Why would that matter? It won't be the same players this Fall...
Are you expecting a mass exodus of players prior to the fall? Or maybe I am not understanding your response.

Didn't understand this one either.
There will be some new freshmen but the Starting Core of the team will certainly be the same.
04-12-2012 12:44 PM
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freeblazer Offline
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Post: #123
RE: Ark hasn't started search
(04-12-2012 11:55 AM)FTDS66 Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 11:41 AM)freeblazer Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 11:31 AM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  College football is a business too. Don't fool yourself.

Of course, but it is a business that pretends to be something more. The NFL doesn't pretend. Even the SEC at least pays lip service to collegiality and amateurism. It's a farce, to be sure, but the distinction matters. If the business model largely depends on the public perception that your beloved alma mater would not behave in a certain way, that has to factor into your actions (like courtesy calling an AD before you contact the coach). Absent the threat of a potential interference with contractual relationship lawsuit, the NFL wouldn't have any reason not to poach coaches from each other with no shame at all.

It's also the reason we would never want Bobby Petrino to be our coach. He is unquestionably a more talented coach than we will ever have here. But we don't want him, because he would embarrass us and make us feel less proud of our school. Mackin has to factor that issue into any decision he makes. You can hire any old as*shole who wins in the NFL. Or Alabama (see Saban, Nick). My hope -- in addition to the hope that he decides on an interim -- is that Long at least worries a little about the perception that he is hiring away a coach who hasn't put one team on the field in a real game for the school that hired him first. I've decided to be an optimist today.

I'm not sure that the distinction you speak of even exists anymore. There is only one aspect of college football that does not operate within a strict business model and that, as you mentioned, is the issue of amateurism. Other than that every other facet of college football works the same way that a business does. Sure Patrino was fired for acting in a way that reflected unfavorably to the university but that is no different than a big time executive getting caught doing something he shouldn't be, it being made public, and showing him the door.

I love college sports. I played college football at UAB. Make no mistake about it other than the fact that I never received anything more than a scholarship for my efforts every other aspect operated as a business.

I'm not suggesting it's not a cut-throat business in every relevant way, especially at the highest levels. But if it were a real business in the traditional sense, UAB football would have filed for bankruptcy years ago. The reason it hasn't, and won't, is because it is propped up due to its positive impact on an academic community in so many other intangible ways. For it to have that impact, it must rely on the loyalty of alumni who love their school or non-alumni who have aligned themselves with the school. At least at UAB, we need to feel proud to support it with our dollars. The reason I will always love UAB is because my dad took me to the first game against Nebraska, and then I played baseball there. It is the only college program I could support because I'd feel like a traitor supporting anyone else. But I wouldn't support it with my dollars if I felt its administration was ruthless or uncaring or unethical, even if it wasn't outright cheating.

Compare that to the business of professional sports. Very few New England Patriot fans cared that they got caught cheating in Spygate. Very few Saints fans care about the bounty situation, except for the impact the penalties will have on winning this season. As a UAB fan, I would be horrified if we got caught cheating in any minor way, but as a St. Louis Cardinals fan I'd just be worried about whether somebody was going to get suspended. All I'm saying is that the business model depends, in part, on the pride that is tied to fans' love for their school.

It is absolutely a business, but it is a different kind of business. If it weren't, there wouldn't be very many schools to play against each other in very many sports. The nature of the business changes and escalates at every level. Birmingham-Southern is not the same as Samford. Samford is not the same as UAB. UAB is not the same as Arkansas. And even Arkansas is not the same as Ohio State. But even Ohio State is not the same as the New York Yankees.
04-12-2012 01:51 PM
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FTDS66 Offline
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Post: #124
RE: Ark hasn't started search
(04-12-2012 01:51 PM)freeblazer Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 11:55 AM)FTDS66 Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 11:41 AM)freeblazer Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 11:31 AM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  College football is a business too. Don't fool yourself.

Of course, but it is a business that pretends to be something more. The NFL doesn't pretend. Even the SEC at least pays lip service to collegiality and amateurism. It's a farce, to be sure, but the distinction matters. If the business model largely depends on the public perception that your beloved alma mater would not behave in a certain way, that has to factor into your actions (like courtesy calling an AD before you contact the coach). Absent the threat of a potential interference with contractual relationship lawsuit, the NFL wouldn't have any reason not to poach coaches from each other with no shame at all.

It's also the reason we would never want Bobby Petrino to be our coach. He is unquestionably a more talented coach than we will ever have here. But we don't want him, because he would embarrass us and make us feel less proud of our school. Mackin has to factor that issue into any decision he makes. You can hire any old as*shole who wins in the NFL. Or Alabama (see Saban, Nick). My hope -- in addition to the hope that he decides on an interim -- is that Long at least worries a little about the perception that he is hiring away a coach who hasn't put one team on the field in a real game for the school that hired him first. I've decided to be an optimist today.

I'm not sure that the distinction you speak of even exists anymore. There is only one aspect of college football that does not operate within a strict business model and that, as you mentioned, is the issue of amateurism. Other than that every other facet of college football works the same way that a business does. Sure Patrino was fired for acting in a way that reflected unfavorably to the university but that is no different than a big time executive getting caught doing something he shouldn't be, it being made public, and showing him the door.

I love college sports. I played college football at UAB. Make no mistake about it other than the fact that I never received anything more than a scholarship for my efforts every other aspect operated as a business.

I'm not suggesting it's not a cut-throat business in every relevant way, especially at the highest levels. But if it were a real business in the traditional sense, UAB football would have filed for bankruptcy years ago. The reason it hasn't, and won't, is because it is propped up due to its positive impact on an academic community in so many other intangible ways. For it to have that impact, it must rely on the loyalty of alumni who love their school or non-alumni who have aligned themselves with the school. At least at UAB, we need to feel proud to support it with our dollars. The reason I will always love UAB is because my dad took me to the first game against Nebraska, and then I played baseball there. It is the only college program I could support because I'd feel like a traitor supporting anyone else. But I wouldn't support it with my dollars if I felt its administration was ruthless or uncaring or unethical, even if it wasn't outright cheating.

Compare that to the business of professional sports. Very few New England Patriot fans cared that they got caught cheating in Spygate. Very few Saints fans care about the bounty situation, except for the impact the penalties will have on winning this season. As a UAB fan, I would be horrified if we got caught cheating in any minor way, but as a St. Louis Cardinals fan I'd just be worried about whether somebody was going to get suspended. All I'm saying is that the business model depends, in part, on the pride that is tied to fans' love for their school.

It is absolutely a business, but it is a different kind of business. If it weren't, there wouldn't be very many schools to play against each other in very many sports. The nature of the business changes and escalates at every level. Birmingham-Southern is not the same as Samford. Samford is not the same as UAB. UAB is not the same as Arkansas. And even Arkansas is not the same as Ohio State. But even Ohio State is not the same as the New York Yankees.

I agree with what your saying. However, I think it comes down to what the majority of alumni, and especially influential alumni, feel about whatever issue at hand. That being said I don't think any of the alumni would care one bit that they hurt UAB by taking our coach from us if they believe it gives them the best chance to win. I personally wouldn't care if one of our coordinators left for Samford then a few months later we lost our coach and he was the best fit, IMO, for his replacement.

That being said, I really hope that Arkansas believes that they can have the same result next season with or without Coach McGee. I hope they name someone interim coach and we get to see what McGee can do for UAB.

If I'm Mackin I have a meeting with McGee ASAP and let him know that if he chooses to leave none of the assistants that he brought on with him will be retained after next season regardless of the outcome. I tell him that we will be conducting a national search and whoever we chose to replace him will bring on his own staff.

IMO other then him not being offered the job, the best case for us is that he has been contacted already and has been told that they will not offer him the job until after spring. If this has already happened, or happens, and Mackin were to have a conversation with McGee like the one I suggested we can only hope that his compassion for his coaches on staff and our current players leads him to make the decision to stay in Bham. 10 days is a long time to have something like that weigh on you, and the bridges he would burn with his peers might not be worth the $$$$ that AU could offer.

Worst case scenario, they have already offered him a huge chunk of change and he accepted right away without really having to think about the impact that taking the job would have. Now he is counting down the days to cross the t's and dot the i's.
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2012 02:41 PM by FTDS66.)
04-12-2012 02:39 PM
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freeblazer Offline
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Post: #125
RE: Ark hasn't started search
(04-12-2012 02:39 PM)FTDS66 Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 01:51 PM)freeblazer Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 11:55 AM)FTDS66 Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 11:41 AM)freeblazer Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 11:31 AM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  College football is a business too. Don't fool yourself.

Of course, but it is a business that pretends to be something more. The NFL doesn't pretend. Even the SEC at least pays lip service to collegiality and amateurism. It's a farce, to be sure, but the distinction matters. If the business model largely depends on the public perception that your beloved alma mater would not behave in a certain way, that has to factor into your actions (like courtesy calling an AD before you contact the coach). Absent the threat of a potential interference with contractual relationship lawsuit, the NFL wouldn't have any reason not to poach coaches from each other with no shame at all.

It's also the reason we would never want Bobby Petrino to be our coach. He is unquestionably a more talented coach than we will ever have here. But we don't want him, because he would embarrass us and make us feel less proud of our school. Mackin has to factor that issue into any decision he makes. You can hire any old as*shole who wins in the NFL. Or Alabama (see Saban, Nick). My hope -- in addition to the hope that he decides on an interim -- is that Long at least worries a little about the perception that he is hiring away a coach who hasn't put one team on the field in a real game for the school that hired him first. I've decided to be an optimist today.

I'm not sure that the distinction you speak of even exists anymore. There is only one aspect of college football that does not operate within a strict business model and that, as you mentioned, is the issue of amateurism. Other than that every other facet of college football works the same way that a business does. Sure Patrino was fired for acting in a way that reflected unfavorably to the university but that is no different than a big time executive getting caught doing something he shouldn't be, it being made public, and showing him the door.

I love college sports. I played college football at UAB. Make no mistake about it other than the fact that I never received anything more than a scholarship for my efforts every other aspect operated as a business.

I'm not suggesting it's not a cut-throat business in every relevant way, especially at the highest levels. But if it were a real business in the traditional sense, UAB football would have filed for bankruptcy years ago. The reason it hasn't, and won't, is because it is propped up due to its positive impact on an academic community in so many other intangible ways. For it to have that impact, it must rely on the loyalty of alumni who love their school or non-alumni who have aligned themselves with the school. At least at UAB, we need to feel proud to support it with our dollars. The reason I will always love UAB is because my dad took me to the first game against Nebraska, and then I played baseball there. It is the only college program I could support because I'd feel like a traitor supporting anyone else. But I wouldn't support it with my dollars if I felt its administration was ruthless or uncaring or unethical, even if it wasn't outright cheating.

Compare that to the business of professional sports. Very few New England Patriot fans cared that they got caught cheating in Spygate. Very few Saints fans care about the bounty situation, except for the impact the penalties will have on winning this season. As a UAB fan, I would be horrified if we got caught cheating in any minor way, but as a St. Louis Cardinals fan I'd just be worried about whether somebody was going to get suspended. All I'm saying is that the business model depends, in part, on the pride that is tied to fans' love for their school.

It is absolutely a business, but it is a different kind of business. If it weren't, there wouldn't be very many schools to play against each other in very many sports. The nature of the business changes and escalates at every level. Birmingham-Southern is not the same as Samford. Samford is not the same as UAB. UAB is not the same as Arkansas. And even Arkansas is not the same as Ohio State. But even Ohio State is not the same as the New York Yankees.

I agree with what your saying. However, I think it comes down to what the majority of alumni, and especially influential alumni, feel about whatever issue at hand. That being said I don't think any of the alumni would care one bit that they hurt UAB by taking our coach from us if they believe it gives them the best chance to win. I personally wouldn't care if one of our coordinators left for Samford then a few months later we lost our coach and he was the best fit, IMO, for his replacement.

That being said, I really hope that Arkansas believes that they can have the same result next season with or without Coach McGee. I hope they name someone interim coach and we get to see what McGee can do for UAB.

If I'm Mackin I have a meeting with McGee ASAP and let him know that if he chooses to leave none of the assistants that he brought on with him will be retained after next season regardless of the outcome. I tell him that we will be conducting a national search and whoever we chose to replace him will bring on his own staff.

IMO other then him not being offered the job, the best case for us is that he has been contacted already and has been told that they will not offer him the job until after spring. If this has already happened, or happens, and Mackin were to have a conversation with McGee like the one I suggested we can only hope that his compassion for his coaches on staff and our current players leads him to make the decision to stay in Bham. 10 days is a long time to have something like that weigh on you, and the bridges he would burn with his peers might not be worth the $$$$ that AU could offer.

Worst case scenario, they have already offered him a huge chunk of change and he accepted right away without really having to think about the impact that taking the job would have. Now he is counting down the days to cross the t's and dot the i's.

I don't think so either. It's just what I hope.
04-12-2012 02:46 PM
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Memphis Blazer Offline
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Post: #126
RE: Ark hasn't started search
(04-12-2012 11:47 AM)FTDS66 Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 11:31 AM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  College football is a business too. Don't fool yourself.

Can't believe this but +1.

BTW, I'm not picking on you, but you are the latest. I just love how everyone throws this disclaimer out there anytime they agree with me.

It's kind of like the disclaimer people throw out there "I was flipping through the channels and came across Finebaum and he said...."

Love you guys too. 03-lmfao
04-12-2012 02:50 PM
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Uncle BLAZER Offline
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Post: #127
RE: Ark hasn't started search
(04-12-2012 02:50 PM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 11:47 AM)FTDS66 Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 11:31 AM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  College football is a business too. Don't fool yourself.

Can't believe this but +1.

BTW, I'm not picking on you, but you are the latest. I just love how everyone throws this disclaimer out there anytime they agree with me.

It's kind of like the disclaimer people throw out there "I was flipping through the channels and came across Finebaum and he said...."

Love you guys too. 03-lmfao

I was going to say something about this earlier. 03-lmfao
04-12-2012 02:51 PM
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bladhmadh Offline
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Post: #128
RE: Ark hasn't started search
(04-12-2012 02:50 PM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 11:47 AM)FTDS66 Wrote:  
(04-12-2012 11:31 AM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  College football is a business too. Don't fool yourself.

Can't believe this but +1.

BTW, I'm not picking on you, but you are the latest. I just love how everyone throws this disclaimer out there anytime they agree with me.

It's kind of like the disclaimer people throw out there "I was flipping through the channels and came across Finebaum and he said...."

Love you guys too. 03-lmfao

I listen to finebaum
04-12-2012 03:00 PM
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Smaug Offline
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Post: #129
RE: Ark hasn't started search
I used to listen to Finebaum. Then I discovered I could just hit my thumb with a hammer and get it over with a lot quicker.

Frees up my afternoon.
04-12-2012 03:24 PM
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FTDS66 Offline
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Post: #130
RE: Ark hasn't started search
I sometimes listen to Finebaum purely for comedic relief.
04-12-2012 03:25 PM
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BAMANBLAZERFAN Offline
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Post: #131
RE: Ark hasn't started search
Jeff Long, Mal Moore and all other "Big Business" BCS ADs (and their presidents) are totally subjected to the whims, mercies and machinations of their multimillionaire boosters who provide all the real money for their school's athletic programs. Neither the President of any university nor the AD have the "deep pockets" to pay the going scale for coaching staffs. They act only as the marionettes "dancing in front of the curtain" while those money people operate the strings. Long decided to fire Petrino AFTER checking with the power people to see if they agreed with his course of action and would back his move with their money.
04-12-2012 05:25 PM
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