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Obaffoon's Friends
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Obaffoon's Friends
(04-01-2012 03:30 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  
(04-01-2012 11:27 AM)Max Power Wrote:  I sit on a board and I barely know the others on it, just say hi and maybe make small talk the once a month we meet. For all I know they're all Nazis. Guilt by (extremely weak) association

I do too. And, if you don't take the time to do your homework about the organization or your fellow board members, you are a empty suit.

Worse... Most bad business decisions start with the board..
04-02-2012 10:59 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Obaffoon's Friends
(04-02-2012 10:52 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Also, most of you focus on out of context snippets of 2-3 sermons from a 20+ year career. Very dangerous thing to do.

Didn't those "out of context snippets" come from videos that the church was itself marketing?

Does anyone here belong to a church that pulls "snippets" "out of context" and markets them as representative of what the church believes?

And Tom, do you personally disagree with the statements contained in those videos, or do you agree with them but try to marginalize them in order to minimize what you believe would obviously be negative impact? Or something else?
04-02-2012 10:59 AM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Obaffoon's Friends
(04-02-2012 10:59 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 10:52 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Also, most of you focus on out of context snippets of 2-3 sermons from a 20+ year career. Very dangerous thing to do.

Didn't those "out of context snippets" come from videos that the church was itself marketing?

Does anyone here belong to a church that pulls "snippets" "out of context" and markets them as representative of what the church believes?

And Tom, do you personally disagree with the statements contained in those videos, or do you agree with them but try to marginalize them in order to minimize what you believe would obviously be negative impact? Or something else?
Did the church give a "best of Rev Wright" video or was it a full length video and pieces taken out of it to play on the news in the few minutes of coverage devoted to the story? I honestly am not sure but I have a guess.
04-02-2012 11:27 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Obaffoon's Friends
(04-02-2012 11:27 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 10:59 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 10:52 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Also, most of you focus on out of context snippets of 2-3 sermons from a 20+ year career. Very dangerous thing to do.
Didn't those "out of context snippets" come from videos that the church was itself marketing?
Does anyone here belong to a church that pulls "snippets" "out of context" and markets them as representative of what the church believes?
And Tom, do you personally disagree with the statements contained in those videos, or do you agree with them but try to marginalize them in order to minimize what you believe would obviously be negative impact? Or something else?
Did the church give a "best of Rev Wright" video or was it a full length video and pieces taken out of it to play on the news in the few minutes of coverage devoted to the story? I honestly am not sure but I have a guess.

If I understand Tom correctly, he is trying to imply that somehow these "snippets" were taken "out of context" and therefore not representative of Rev. Wright or the church. But if the church itself prepared and edited the entire video, why would they have includded something that was not representative of Rev. Wright or the church?

Saying that something is "taken out of context" is valid criticism when the context impacts the meaning of the something. But in this case, what could be a context where the words of Rev. Wright would have a different meaning from the obvious, plain, and clear meaning of the English words he spoke in the clips? Exactly how is the meaning of, for example, "God d*** America," altered by context?
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2012 11:38 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
04-02-2012 11:38 AM
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Redwingtom Online
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Post: #25
RE: Obaffoon's Friends
Seriously Owl?

The whole sermons were available. Hacks like Hannity did nothing but play the same snippet over and over and over and over and over and continually pound the same quote over and over and over.

I encourage you to do a little google and read the sermon for yourself. Most of the sermon deals with the distrust of governemnt and how it has failed most of the citizenry. Sounds a little right wing to me...lol
04-02-2012 12:53 PM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Obaffoon's Friends
(04-02-2012 12:53 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Seriously Owl?

The whole sermons were available. Hacks like Hannity did nothing but play the same snippet over and over and over and over and over and continually pound the same quote over and over and over.

I encourage you to do a little google and read the sermon for yourself. Most of the sermon deals with the distrust of governemnt and how it has failed most of the citizenry. Sounds a little right wing to me...lol

You didn't answer Owl's question. You simply restated what you already said.

You - They're taken out of context
Owl - How?
You - they're taken out of context

Please explain the context by which "G-D America" was used and how it really doesn't mean what we believe it to.
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2012 12:55 PM by Ninerfan1.)
04-02-2012 12:54 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Obaffoon's Friends
(04-02-2012 12:54 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  
(04-02-2012 12:53 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Seriously Owl?
The whole sermons were available. Hacks like Hannity did nothing but play the same snippet over and over and over and over and over and continually pound the same quote over and over and over.
I encourage you to do a little google and read the sermon for yourself. Most of the sermon deals with the distrust of governemnt and how it has failed most of the citizenry. Sounds a little right wing to me...lol
You didn't answer Owl's question. You simply restated what you already said.
You - They're taken out of context
Owl - How?
You - they're taken out of context
Please explain the context by which "G-D America" was used and how it really doesn't mean what we believe it to.

Yes, please do.
04-02-2012 01:13 PM
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Redwingtom Online
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Post: #28
RE: Obaffoon's Friends
BECAUSE THE SERMON WAS MORE THAN THREE WORDS YOU DOPES!
04-02-2012 02:32 PM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Obaffoon's Friends
(04-02-2012 02:32 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  BECAUSE THE SERMON WAS MORE THAN THREE WORDS YOU DOPES!

How exactly do the number of words apply to context? For example, if I write a post that is 1000 words long, and in it I say "RedwingTom is a scum sucking coward who can't defend his positions." you would argue I don't really mean that because my post was 1000 words?

Out of curiosity Tom do you know what context is?

But seriously Tom, wouldn't it be far more productive for you to just admit that you haven't listened to the whole sermon and really have no foundation to make the claim that when Wright said, "G-D America." he didn't really mean just that?
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2012 02:35 PM by Ninerfan1.)
04-02-2012 02:34 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Obaffoon's Friends
(04-02-2012 02:32 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  BECAUSE THE SERMON WAS MORE THAN THREE WORDS YOU DOPES!

THAT DOES NOT MEAN ITS OUT OF CONTEXT YOU DOPE!

IT *COULD* MEAN ITS OUT OF CONTEXT BUT DOES NOT MEAN IT IS... UNTIL YOU LOOK AT THE CONTEXT!

Oh hell I can't just leave the caps lock key on...

Quote:Governments fail. The government in this text comprised of Caesar, Cornelius, Pontus Pilot – Pontius Pilate – the Roman government failed. The British government used to rule from east to west. The British government had a Union Jack. She colonised Kenya, Guana, Nigeria, Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad and Hong Kong. Her navies ruled the seven seas all the way down to the tip of Argentina in the Falklands, but the British failed. The Russian government failed. The Japanese government failed. The German government failed. And the United States of America government, when it came to treating her citizens of Indian decent fairly, she failed. She put them on reservations. When it came to treating her citizens of Japanese decent fairly, she failed. She put them in internment prison camps. When it came to treating her citizens of African decent fairly, America failed.

She put them in chains. The government put them in slave quarters, put them on auction blocks, put them in cotton fields, put them in inferior schools, put them in substandard housing, put them in scientific experiments, put them in the lowest paying jobs, put them outside the equal protection of the law, kept them out of their racist bastions of higher education and locked them into position of hopelessness and helplessness. The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law, and then wants us to sing “God Bless America.” No, no, no. Not “God Bless America”; *** **** America! That’s in the Bible, for killing innocent people. *** **** America for treating her citizen as less than human. *** **** America as long as she keeps trying to act like she is God and she is supreme

Entire Sermon:

http://www.sluggy.net/forum/viewtopic.ph...50e52f50b7

Personally I am more offended by Obama trying to call himself a Christian who goes to a church with a political theology, then deciding not to bother attending any church while in DC...

If you're not a christian, fine, I can still vote for/against you but I hate the deception.
04-02-2012 02:38 PM
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Redwingtom Online
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Post: #31
RE: Obaffoon's Friends
I've read the parts of the sermon dealing with the GD quote numerous times. It (and analysis' of it) are all over the internet...whether you choose to go read it or not is up to you.
04-02-2012 02:40 PM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Obaffoon's Friends
(04-02-2012 02:40 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I've read the parts of the sermon dealing with the GD quote numerous times. It (and analysis' of it) are all over the internet...whether you choose to go read it or not is up to you.

Does it bother you you're such a chicken sh!t?
04-02-2012 02:41 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Obaffoon's Friends
(04-02-2012 02:40 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I've read the parts of the sermon dealing with the GD quote numerous times.

And yet you're unable or unwilling to say how it was out of context...
04-02-2012 02:48 PM
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Max Power Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Obaffoon's Friends
(04-02-2012 10:02 AM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  
(04-01-2012 02:57 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Honestly I think Obama's choice of church is a political calculation as well, because it was a very large church in his senate district. This is all stuff smart people do when they intend to run for office. Join the Rotary Club, NRA (if you're on the right), Knight of Columbus (if it's a big Catholic district).... all sh!t smart aspiring pols do. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just how it is.

Except that the two had a relationship well before he ever ran for Senate.

Quote:The sign stayed until the end of apartheid, --long enough to catch the eye of a young Barack Obama, who visited the church in 1985 as a community activist. Obama, was not a churchgoer at the time, but he found himself returning to the sanctuary of Trinity United. In Wright he had found both a spiritual mentor and a role model.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/polit...4186.story

Does that mean you're wrong, or that you believe Obama was simply planning to run for office during his time as a community organizer, instead of actually helping people like he was supposed to?

And do you think Obama's decision to have Wright perform his wedding ceremony, baptize his daughters, and name his book after one of Wright's sermons were purely due to political aspirations?

Who said he wasn't helping people? I think he may have actually believed in the community organizing, and worked with churches and established relationships that helped him reach the state senate and ultimately the presidency.

I'm not saying he's taking advantage of these organizations he joined. Hell, if you join an organization and use their resources to help you get elected to office or what have you, the organization can be grateful because of the publicity it generates. ("Yes, President George W Bush himself vomited and passed out in this pew thirty years ago!"). And I'm not saying it's purely political. Aspiring pols are a personable lot, open to meeting new acquaintances (more acquaintances, fewer friends) and averse to making enemies. It doesn't mean they see everyone as a means to an end. It just means they don't have the same motivations in making these decisions than those of us who have no interest in running for office. Again, I don't think it's right or wrong.
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2012 03:35 PM by Max Power.)
04-02-2012 03:34 PM
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